12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Board

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Board

Postby GGoodrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:25 pm

This is a quick preview of a kit I'm going to make available soon. The kit will include everything required to package a professional looking 12s2p 44V/10Ah pack, including a complete assembled/tested 12-channel version of the new Zephyr "Lite" BMS. The idea is that you simply add four 6s-5000 Turnigy/Zippy packs, in a plug'n play fashion, and then shrink wrap the whole package. The BMS board goes along the bottom of the pack, and two "end plates" are provided that attach to the ends of the 6s-5000 packs. Here's a drawing of the board and end plates, plus a quick pic of the first actual unit:

12-Channel BMS Lite-v4.4.4a.pcb.png
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12s2p LiPo BMS Lite-v4.4.4-01.jpg
12s2p LiPo BMS Lite-v4.4.4-01.jpg (106.23 KiB) Viewed 8143 times


Basically, the four packs go on top of the BMS board, with the connections toward the center. There's four 7-pin JST-XH connectors for the balancer plugs from the four packs. Not shown are the special 4mm bullet adapters, for use with the packs main discharge wires. No soldering required, you just plug everything in. :)

On one end are the 12 individual cell LEDs, which come on when a cell's shunt circuit is active, and one red-green LED for the charge control mode indication. The other end of the pack has the main pack terminals, plus the charger/supply connections. There's also the usual LVC throttle/ebrake connections. Finally, there's a single 18-pin VAL-U-LOK connector that is wired just like the 12s charge plug used with the Hyperion 1420i RC-type charger. This plug can be used to check individual cell voltages periodically, just to make sure no cells are starting to go hinky.

Anyway, the kit will include a 14" long piece of 9"-wide shrnk wrap, which can be used to seal everything up, around the end plates.

I'll post some more pictures as soon as I finish putting the pack together.

-- Gary
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby Deutch420 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:39 pm

Gary,
For a lot of people new to LiPo like myself, this kit would be GREAT! Doesn't get much better than plug-and-play.

If one was to request a 72v 18s2p or 100v 24s2p version, would they be available? Can you run 2 of these in series for 100v?

Looks great. I'll be first in line!
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby axi0m » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:55 pm

You'll sell a ton of these!
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby gensem » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:14 pm

Gary i dont mean to hijack this thread... but im unable to access your site for sometime. is it really down?
Justin we really appreciate what you did!
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby GGoodrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:44 pm

Like many here, I'm always getting asked by friends and family to do a basic ebike build for them. I've done quite a few of these, but the biggest pain was always how to do a simple Lithium-based battery pack, with a very easy way to charge it. When I started using Turnigy/Zippy LiPo packs, it got a bit easier, but I didn't do a full BMS with these because it frankly just took too long. What I did for the last couple is that I built them a shrink-wrapped 12s2p pack, with LVC-only boards, but included an 18-pin VAL-U-LOK connector so that periodically, I could plug in one of my Hyperions, and do a quick health check, and/or a balance charge. This has worked out okay, so far, but there's no real protection for bulk charging. I gave them both a current-limited MeanWell, set to about 4.10V per cell, so 50V.

When Richard told me about his BMS "Lite" idea, I decided this would be perfect as a simple BMS for one of these "typical" 12s2p packs. It can't do 1A of shunt current, like its big brother, but with LiPos, this really isn't a problem, as healthy cells rarely get very far out of balance, unless the pack is run down to LV cutoff all the time. Anyway, this Lite design requires a ton fewer parts, and so it takes up a lot less board space. The cell circuits fit in an area that is only a little bit bigger than a couple of LVC.HVC-only boards, I was able to fit all 12 channels on one end of the PCB. I also included the full Zephyr charge control function, which is laid out in the middle of the board. I needed this so that I could make sure I could still use the cheap MeanWells, and have more confidence that my friends won't burn their garages down. :)

So, once I decided I could fit everything on one board, it became all about making this as easy to assemble as possible. The balance plugs were easy, but it took me awhile to sort out how to do the main pack leads. I settled on a couple of adapters that attach with a bolt and standoffs, to the main pack + and - connections on the board. The two lower 6s-5000 packs' negative leads plug in one of these adapters, and the two positive leads from the upper two 6s-5000s plug into the other. The + leads from the two lower packs simply plug into the - leads of the two upper packs.

Running two of these 12s2p packs in series is not a problem. I plan to do exactly that on my my wife's bike. The LVC connections can simply be paralleled.

It will be easy to do a slightly different version to support a 12s4p configuration, as all that would be required is a couple of taller end plates, and a different set of 4mm bullet adapters. Doing 18s, however, would be a different animal, I'm afraid. I might eventually do a 16s version, to be used with the 8s-5600 packs I have that aren't being used right now, but not 18s, for now anyway.

-- Gary
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby GGoodrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:46 pm

gensem wrote:Gary i dont mean to hijack this thread... but im unable to access your site for sometime. is it really down?


Yeah, the web hosting srvice I was using went under, with no notice, and I lost my whole site. Unfortunately, I didn't have a backup. I've started working on a new site, but this is a lot of work, and it is hard to get motivated, especially this time of year. :roll:

If anybody needs something, just send me a PM and we can do a manual PayPal transaction.

-- Gary
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby Pure » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:10 pm

Just to be clear, you said to use 5S but I assume 6s would work since the BMS lite is a 12s?
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby GGoodrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:56 pm

Pure wrote:Just to be clear, you said to use 5S but I assume 6s would work since the BMS lite is a 12s?


Yes, I went back and fixed it, thanks. :)
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby Pure » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:51 pm

Awesome! That's what I thought.

You keep this kind of thing up and lipo might actually become convenient. I know I'm excited!
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby AussieJester » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:00 am

Another fantastic product Mr Goodrum I'm sure these kits will be popular with the rc motored crowd, please tell me you working on an equally flash setup for oooh say an 18s configuration?

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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby icecube57 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:55 am

Oohhh Sweet Jesus!

I would even get this ish.
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby docnjoj » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:56 am

This could tip me into LiPo! Great job, Richard and Gary!
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby iovaykind » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:48 am

My question is WHY haven't these been produced yet? They'd make lipo better than lifepo4 and still no one decided heck its time to make one?!

You better be producing multiple versions of this for different sized packs :D
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby Spacey » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:02 am

I'd take a 16S version 100%
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby grindz145 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:15 am

This is the missing link for sure. You nailed it Gary, this is what it will take to make lipo accessible to the non-ebike-hacker types. Can't wait to get a kit.
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby iovaykind » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:22 am

Just a suggestion, make the board a unit in itself with leads coming out?

1. It'd make it easier to produce different versions of it instead of having a board that has to match the size/dimensions of the batteries

2. People can shape their batteries however they like so they can fit it better into their bikes.
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby dumbluck » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:34 am

how do i place my order I would like a couple as soon as they are available
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby BikeFanatic » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:37 am

This is a fantasic idea, plug and play, you are great Gary , really contributing to the
progress of electrics.

Are you taking orders yet?
Put me down for one, I will PM as well
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby GGoodrum » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:53 am

iovaykind wrote:Just a suggestion, make the board a unit in itself with leads coming out?

1. It'd make it easier to produce different versions of it instead of having a board that has to match the size/dimensions of the batteries

2. People can shape their batteries however they like so they can fit it better into their bikes.


The board could easily be configured that way, but it kinda defeats the real purpose of this variant, which is to make it absolutely "plug'n play". The problem is the limited length of the balance plug leads, and of the main pack leads themselves. The board has spots for four 7-pin JST-XH connectors, for each 6s section, right now, and I think for the balancer plugs at least, a 12s4p setup could be done easy enough. For the main leads, however, I need to do a slightly different sort of 4mm bullet plug adapter, to support a 4p configuration.

Two of these 12s2p (or 12s4p...) packs can be run in series, for doing 24s, but like I said before, supporting 18s would mean a different design altogether. One other thing I can do, after I get these kits going, is maybe do a modular layout, with multiple 6s sections, like the LVC-only and LVC-HVC boards we did before. These wouldn't be "pre-assembled", though, like what I'm going to do with these 12s2p kits.

-- Gary
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby GGoodrum » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:57 am

dumbluck wrote:how do i place my order I would like a couple as soon as they are available


Today I will finish building and testing the first pack. I'm taking pics as I go for the assembly and test instructions.Assuming I don't have to do any layout tweaks, I will start building out the rest of the boards I have, and then will post info on how the kits can be ordered.

-- Gary
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby iovaykind » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:34 am

You're going to make me switch up to 24s instead of 20s real soon :roll:

I'm sure you'll be doing other configurations though correct?
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby Pure » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:09 pm

I was just thinking.. As much as I would trust any BMS you put out over anything else readily available. Knowing the nature of Lipo, I would want either extra plugs on the board (prob too hard) or special balance cables to allow us to tie in CellLogs into the pack for active, permanent monitoring. Maybe you can offer the extra paralleling cables as an upgrade for extra $?
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby adrian_sm » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:21 pm

GGoodrum wrote: One other thing I can do, after I get these kits going, is maybe do a modular layout, with multiple 6s sections, like the LVC-only and LVC-HVC boards we did before. These wouldn't be "pre-assembled", though, like what I'm going to do with these 12s2p kits.

-- Gary


I am interested in a solution for use with 5s or 6s packs. For my friction drive project, I am sticking to 5s or 6s voltages, but paralleling up 2, 3 or 4 packs. I would love something that takes care of the balancing.

- Adrian
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive in Beta testing (www.commuterbooster.com)
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby AussieJester » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:32 pm

GGoodrum wrote:supporting 18s would mean a different design altogether.


I forsee many of the rc motored fan bois switching to 18s if they want to run hall sensors and Infineons as the 12s is
nothing short of pathetic on an rc motor linked with a Infineon and 24s is too much for the rc motors i believe.. I know i would jump straight to 18s if there was a simple one plug charge and balance solution as per 12s setups... jm2c

KiM
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Re: 12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Boar

Postby yopappamon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:59 pm

Awesome product! Can't wait. :D
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