A123 from China. C and avoid [SOLVED]

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 09 2011 7:34pm

A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B. I was wandering if it is possible to get it with declaration for less than full price? Say 25USD including shipping? Perhaps someone has additional charger and could sell it?
Cheers

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by parabellum » Dec 09 2011 7:44pm

agniusm wrote:A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B. I was wandering if it is possible to get it with declaration for less than full price? Say 25USD including shipping? Perhaps someone has additional charger and could sell it?
Cheers
With Hobby King you have the option to declare it as low as 10% of the original cost, you have this option following checkout.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by parabellum » Dec 09 2011 7:51pm

agniusm wrote:A friend of mine advised me on getting the iCharger 206B
For 15U$ more you can get iCharger 1010B+ and balance charge 10s VS 6s of 206B.

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 09 2011 8:11pm

Yes, but the thing is i read reviews and couple went on fire. i dont mind spending more time to check the cells, thats the only thing i will be using it. Were to find that declaration option to change? Here is what i get:
Image

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by parabellum » Dec 10 2011 12:40am

Hm...Is it your firs purchase? Maybe country specific?
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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 12 2011 4:12am

Hi, thanx. You have to be gold member to be able to use this function, so they said not too good. Perhaps someone with gold membership can help me out? :)

EDIT:
Got it my self, HK gave a discount

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 15 2011 9:05am

Today i have received replacement cells from victpower. Surprised they send replacement without me sending dodgy cells back to them. This time all the cells where marked as made in USA. All cell came up at 3.3V without exception. I was sure glad to see that.
I was going through cells and noticed different marking on them. Most cells have a qr code in the middle which reads the number, same as on the bar code and between positive and negative tabs, i guess cell ID numbed. Beside that qr code there is lettering: A0, A1, A2, B and no lettering. Also at the top of the cell near positive tab There is another lettering: P1, P2 or none. Could that mean a, b grade cells and the ones that did not pass inspection, just a blind guess. Here are the photos showing different cells:

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by miro13car » Dec 15 2011 9:26am

agniusm,
thank you for this thread, very informative lot's of info for those who wants to buy A123.
I never saw A123 pouch with codes and letters in THE MIDDLE OF cell.
You are very observant person.
Keep us informed.
I am happy for you that it all turned out for you good,
do you think PayPal complaining propeled seller to action?
And you keep all those first shipment cells?
Power of PayPal complain?

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 15 2011 9:43am

Thanx mate. Well i bet that paypal done its part. They lock your account and reserve money in your bank account. If i would of send those cells back i would get full refund. I just thought that this way will be better as i wont loose money. 6 cells from the first shipment were ok so i ended up having 30 good cells but paying double tax. So that sort of equals out all things. No i am having some issues with hobbyking. I have ordered icharger 206B and they charged my account but not dispatching the charger, but asking me to send different confirmations because my account name on their site is different from my credit card. So i sent them photograph as they asked, now they asking for a bank statement. I guess it would be easier to smuggle some drugs in to a white house that buy a f...ing charger from hobby king :)
Well, hope all will turn out ok and i will cycle the cells few times, test the capacity and report back.

Here is a picture of all the cells, the good ones (big stack) and the bad ones:

Image

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by parabellum » Dec 15 2011 10:54am

Congratulations. Good to read it worked out for you. A lot of sellers are suspicious if your goods receptor name is different from card holder name, they are just scared to send something out and then bank stopping transaction for fraud. There is a lot of credit card hacking going on.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 17 2011 8:10am

Hi. Have a few questions off topic, dont want to start a new thread. So i got these batteries i would like to start making them in to the pack. 24s setup. What kind of BMS you would suggest using. I read a lot and it looks that most stuff does not balance cells well. When you spend so much money and time on the batteries you want a reliable BMS to take care of your cells. Is there a reliable programmable BMS so i could set top and bottom voltages to my requirements? What rating BMS i would need to look for current wise? I will be using clyte hs3450 72V on cargo bike, so will be pulling some weight. As i understand connection of BMS to the cells are same on different units except markings of terminals, is there a sort of wiki to familiarize myself with connecting all together?
This is my first build and i need reliable info on this, find it hard to find.
thanx

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by jonescg » Dec 17 2011 8:31am

My advice on a BMS for LiFePO4 is an EV-Power system. It trims down high cells from >3.65 V to about 3.6 fairly quickly. If all of your cells are well balanced this doesn't take long at all. The master control unit allows either an alarm to sound for LVC, and activates a relay to do whatever you want. HVC cuts power to the charger if any cell exceeds 4.1 V. Simplest system I know, and very effective.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 17 2011 12:02pm

Thanks. Were you referring to this company: www.ev-power.com.au ? I looked through their website but they are aimed to large lipo applications the cell size starting 40AH. Also cell modules would be hard to mount.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by jonescg » Dec 17 2011 8:54pm

Yeah, he developed them with LiFePO4 TS cells in mind, but I use them on my A123 pouches and they work just fine.
http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Thundersky- ... stem-.html
He has smaller versions, and the CM100 version can come in a board format. I soldered all the wires onto them and use 6 pin plugs to wire up each pack:
Image

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by ohzee » Dec 17 2011 9:17pm

Congrats Agniusm I am glad it worked out for you.

I also like the woodworking in your house especially the floor looks nice do it yourself ?

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 18 2011 5:01am

jonescg wrote:Yeah, he developed them with LiFePO4 TS cells in mind, but I use them on my A123 pouches and they work just fine.
Thanks. They look a bit bulky. What sort of money did you paid for the modules and control unit? If i decided to go this way i would go for the BMS which is developed back home http://www.elektromotus.lt/wiki/index.p ... troduction
ohzee wrote:Congrats Agniusm I am glad it worked out for you.

I also like the woodworking in your house especially the floor looks nice do it yourself ?
Yea, really happy that it turned out well. I done my whole house alone, saved a fortune. Its a small house but we dont need a big one as me and my wife think its a waist and not the ecological way of living:) http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 649&type=3

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 18 2011 11:53am

What's the full price of that bms as you need it.

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 18 2011 2:22pm

The emus one costs 700EUR thats to expensive for a bike. I am looking something reliable and small. Someone recommended cellman's BMS but i am not sure

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by miro13car » Dec 18 2011 4:11pm

Agniu,
try this Cyclone Taiwan,
I bought and I am using Voltage Management VMS boards by New Energy I bought from them, very reliable made in Taiwan.
Ask them about them.
Meanwile look at this from Cyclone Taiwan
http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.tw/product.p ... 04&count=1

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 18 2011 6:11pm

miro13car wrote:Agniu,
try this Cyclone Taiwan,
I bought and I am using Voltage Management VMS boards by New Energy I bought from them, very reliable made in Taiwan.
Ask them about them.
Meanwile look at this from Cyclone Taiwan
http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.tw/product.p ... 04&count=1
Thanks. Now getting lost here :) So VMS would be same BMS, just another name or there is more to it? If i would run my hub @ 5kw burst i would need BMS for ~70amps?
To what voltages it balances the cells?
I have found this unit: http://ocelltech.en.alibaba.com/product ... ystem.html
Wander if its any good.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by Pure » Dec 18 2011 6:45pm

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=26554

Don't really think you can beat that one/ Cash it cost/vs performance = win win.
Mongoose DH
X5304
60V20Ah LiFePO4

I'm polymerized tree sap and you're an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original trajectory and adheres to you. So there!

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by miro13car » Dec 18 2011 7:18pm

VMS does not have LVC no HVC .
Insted it has LVoltage warning buzzer and HVoltage warning buzzer, quite loud I can tell you.
You must remember that LVC cutting off device like Mosfet or FET have resistance when it conduct battery current, low but it has.
It is a loss.I prefer to have a buzzer and cut off batt myself and not to have losses.
VMS by All New Energy is not listed on Cyclone Taiwan but they sold itto me. I just asked if they sell VMS made by All New Energy
I have been using them in my LifeBatt pack forover 5 yers now.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by miro13car » Dec 18 2011 7:24pm

Pure, are you sure they sell ready to use ones?
Read carefully they sell just boards and bunch of parts for DIYourself to assembly, and they are analog no microprocessor based.
You must be really into electronics to build BMS itself from scratch.

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 18 2011 11:09pm

miro13car wrote:VMS does not have LVC no HVC .
Insted it has LVoltage warning buzzer and HVoltage warning buzzer, quite loud I can tell you.
You must remember that LVC cutting off device like Mosfet or FET have resistance when it conduct battery current, low but it has.
It is a loss.I prefer to have a buzzer and cut off batt myself and not to have losses.
VMS by All New Energy is not listed on Cyclone Taiwan but they sold itto me. I just asked if they sell VMS made by All New Energy
I have been using them in my LifeBatt pack forover 5 yers now.
By LVC/HVS you mean low/high voltage cut-off?
Right, so basically you would need to sit around not to damage your battery? I wouldn't mind if it was for me, but for casual user who wants to plug the bike leave it and forget about it? I read somewhere on lifebatt guy Australia thing that you can connect relay to cut of the charger?

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Re: A123 from China. C and avoid

Post by agniusm » Dec 18 2011 11:46pm

Pure wrote:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=26554

Don't really think you can beat that one/ Cash it cost/vs performance = win win.
It looks like a lot of work gone in making that BMS. The only down side is you have to assemble it your self which for me would go wrong somewhere along the line.

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