How far will 1Ah get me?

Allex

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Dec 5, 2011
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Stockholm, Sweden
I'm a bit unsure here reading the scooter manual, it states the the range is about 15 miles but I'm getting around 7 with it original SLA battery?

Its a 800W (brushed motor) 36V scooter. My weight is 140 punds. and the speed is 30km/h
Now using the turnigy watt meter tells me that the peak power is 1280W.
So when I look at the meter and 1Ah are used I manage to travel 0.6mile.
I changed that battery to a turnigy 37V lipo, but still same results... 0,6mile per 1Ah
It this normal or what?
How do they calculate the distance, is it on a perfectly flat surface and a speed of 10km/h or my motor/other are faulty?
 
Allex said:
How do they calculate the distance, is it on a perfectly flat surface and a speed of 10km/h...
Yes. No starts or stops, no headwinds, tires inflated to max, battery warm, rider weight <100lbs.

Real world, ballpark 30-40Wh/mile maybe. At 37V, plus/minus 1Ah/mile... Riding style can make a huge difference. Kicking off from starts, coasting down to stops, gentle accelerations...

Stats from manufacturers/sellers are usually wildly "optimistic".

Cheers
Lock
 
That is a pretty low efficiency, but I am comparing to a 60 lb ebike with a brushless motor, which will get around 3 or so miles per amp/hr at 36 volts, if my memory is correct.

I am sure when the range of e-vehicles is given by most vendors, that is at some ideal condition. I am not surprised you get half of that. Range is highly dependent on driving style. I can double my range by simply driving more conservatively, vs. a full throttle uphill, hair-on-fire ride.

I am a bit surprised that lead acid and LiPo were so close, but it would depend on the drive cycle; the lead acid would probably die much faster if the ride was at a high current.
 
It takes about 200W to travel at 30kph. Adding about 40% for various mechanical loss as well as inefficiency of the brushed motor for a total of 280W. That's on perfectly level ground and no wind which basically never happens. So let's add 10% for a total of 308W. That's 8.56A current on a 36V battery. So it's reasonable to expect 30km for every 8.56Ah used or 3.5km per Ah.

Either your scooter is very inefficient or your meter is not working properly. I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
 
Allex said:
I'm a bit unsure here reading the scooter manual, it states the the range is about 15 miles but I'm getting around 7 with it original SLA battery?

Its a 800W (brushed motor) 36V scooter. My weight is 140 punds. and the speed is 30km/h
Now using the turnigy watt meter tells me that the peak power is 1280W.
So when I look at the meter and 1Ah are used I manage to travel 0.6mile.
I changed that battery to a turnigy 37V lipo, but still same results... 0,6mile per 1Ah
It this normal or what?
How do they calculate the distance, is it on a perfectly flat surface and a speed of 10km/h or my motor/other are faulty?
Have home made moped, 75kg+95kg me, 31-35W per km (or 0.6m), reads from CA. I ride in boundaries of 40-60kmh on flats, short times 70kmh. Peak power is limited at 5KW but I go softly on the throttle and have regen (3-10% back depending on rout).
Your 36-37Wpkm looks little to much for me! Have you removed LA batteries (from the scooter) for testing with LiPo. What is the weight of your scooter? Is it DD or chain drive?
 
With the stock SLA 12Ah i got around 10km before the voltage is to low and its no fun to drive anymore.
When I change to lipo (10Ah)I can go for 11 km before the pack drops to 35V, have not dared to get any lower.

Yes, the scooter have chain drive and the peak Amperage is 31A
NET WEIGHT: 85 lbs. but I don't know if its with or without the SLA(probably with, so about 60lbs dry)
http://superscootersales.com/?wpsc-product=super-turbo-800-elite
 
Once you knock off about 20% for the heat lost in the brushes, the range goes down. But that does sound particularly poor.

Your speed is not that fast, but it has a huge impact. The only way you'll get better wh/mi will be to slow down.

Is this a stand up scooter? Pretty poor aerodynamics, a human standing tall. Actually, I wonder if your motor is not making more heat than it should. I would still have expected a bit better at that speed. For bikes, 36 wh/mi is sort of typical, but you are getting way worse than that. You only get .6 mile for 36 wh.

What's your watts reading when traveing at 30 kph? For a bike it's only about 300w, mabye 400 at most. Got a brake rubbing bad or something?

For sales pitch purposes, range is tested rolling down a huge hill, with wind at your back, at about 5 mph. :lol: :roll:

Sure your speeometer/ odometer is right? I've seen some real unbelievable claims here for top speed, and later seen an admission that things were more than 10% off.
 
Yeah, Its a stand up and the road goes up and down where I live, its no where near flat, could that be it?
Just a bit worried that maybe the motor/controller is faulty.

Have to check about watts sunder ride, the watt meter is below deck so its kind of hard to see :)
No everything spins easily so no friction!
Speed should be about right, but I could check with gps.
 
I have both the 800W and the 1000W lithium.

Here is my take:
800W:
1) Slow acceleration unless you get the hill climbing gears. I have the super high speed gears so it accelerates super slow, But it able to reach 24.5mph on flats w/o head wind after replacing the 36V lead acid with a 36V20Ah LiFePo4 battery.
2) Good to go around local places, but not good to go far due to inefficiency.
3) As for range, I think I got like 12-13miles on it (BMS shut down) using my 36V20Ah LiFePo4 full throttle. So 720Wh/12.5mils = 57.6Wh/mil which is pretty bad.
4) Range with Lead Acid, if I remember correctly, was around 6-7 miles, full throttle when the battery was new. Afterwords, it was like 4-5 miles full throttle.

1000W:
1) really good acceleration
2) Top speed around 27-28mph using the high speed gears.
3) Only good for local places.
4) super loud compared to my ebike.

Because of the more power and the thicker gears/chain, The 1000W lithium is more reliable and is able to keep up with traffic in the inner streets. Personally, after buying both, and having my ebike, I still like my ebike better. Once you build a reliable ebike build, it is much better and faster than this scooter. I think my brother has an online review of the 1000W version.

Will post the video later on.
 
Good that we get same results here! Cant believe that the manufactures spec is such a lie, a can accept 20% of chart but this is just stupid.
The hardware is fine on mine then, guess the brushed motor is crap on it?
Next step would be a brushless, any help here? Or maybe I need to start a new thread in the motor section...
 
Range is always half of promised, i calculate 1 mile per ah at full throttle, no pedal, in real life conditions. In my case it's accurate.
 
rojitor said:
Range is always half of promised, i calculate 1 mile per ah at full throttle, no pedal, in real life conditions. In my case it's accurate.

This scooter has no pedals. Check out the website. It has broken down on me a couple of times and had to call someone to pick me up. Assuming 1mil/ah is a good estimate, but that can change. My ebike gets 1.4mil/ah when I set it to 30A current limit. Now it only gets 1.1mil/ah when set to 33A current limit.

Allex said:
Good that we get same results here! Cant believe that the manufactures spec is such a lie, a can accept 20% of chart but this is just stupid.
The hardware is fine on mine then, guess the brushed motor is crap on it?
Next step would be a brushless, any help here? Or maybe I need to start a new thread in the motor section...

Yes I have ponder brushless motor on this. Actually if you contact the owner "Chris," He has mentioned to me that he is looking into this. But brushless has its own sets of problem.
1) If you are going brushless, most likely it will be outrunner WITH hall or some other phase sensor. As of now, that would mean a custom motor large enough to give you the torque that this brush motor is giving. Meaning a huge increase in cost.
2) With Brushless, you will need a controller for this. If they can design a sensored brushless motor that fits, then you might be able to use Lyen's mini Brushless motor controller.
3) Mounting on the current setup will be a problem. Also you have to deal with finding the right gears to fit.

If you can find a brushless motor that can do this on the 800W Elite or the 1000W Lithium, Let me know because I am looking into this too. So far, I have deemed it too expensive to do the upgrade. I think a whole redesign is warranted in this case.
 
A few hills, the higher gearing, worse aero than a bike, brushed motor, I can see how that could add up on ya.

Still pretty high wh/mi compared to bike numbers.
 
If you can find a brushless motor that can do this on the 800W Elite or the 1000W Lithium, Let me know because I am looking into this too. So far, I have deemed it too expensive to do the upgrade. I think a whole redesign is warranted in this case.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48KY9ejvkiQ
He fitted one of these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F5142%5F%5FTurnigy%5F80%5F100%5FB%5F130Kv%5FBrushless%5FOutrunner%5Feq%5F70%5F55%5F.html
so a 100bucks for that and an esc for around the same, plus servo tester för 5? Not to expensive!
 
well you wont get the benefits unless switch to Lipo battery which can cost a lot. Also keep in mind that what he used is a sensorless setup so what he didn't show you is startup which will have major stuttering and can put a lot of stress on the controller. Finally what didn't show you is the max speed. Unloaded RPM at 48V is ~ 6KRPM using 130V/rpm. That should give you around 3KRPM loaded which is pretty slow. I am not sure if that will get you 27-28mph when compared to the 1000W 48V lithium.

I do not doubt there is super torque... once the motor is spinning.

Too bad we cannot get those motor anymore.

So yes 200 + batteries + shipping should be around $350+ plus mounting setup. Add chargers for the lipo. Add cables, connectors, I say you are looking at 550-600 minimum plus a shit load time hacking everything together. Also I would recommend buying a couple of controllers just for back up.

If you subtract the batteries, then you can save around 200 by not buying charging setup and batteries. But still 350-400.

If you really want something reliable, you should go for the Castle Creation HV which can cost up to $300 just for the new version controller.

Like I said, It is still costly to convert to brushless.

Let me know how much it will cost overall if you do decide to convert.
 
Yeah not counting on lipos, because I already have them :)
So yeah, around 700US just for lipos/charger/psu/cables/misc
Good news is that you probably can use those things on a bike.
 

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