Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by agniusm » May 02, 2012 11:07 am

SlyCayer wrote:
Sutho wrote:Buyers should not expect this module purchase to be entirely hassle-free. If that was going to be the case, A123 would have kept the modules and we would not have access to them at all....particularly at the price they are (were) selling for.
Totally agree, we cannot expect these to be perfect... We have to make sure not to put too much pressure on the supplier, or else they will no longer supply us.
And where are they gonna stuff those modules or cells if not to us salvaging cents and going the cheap road? Bottom line is you get what you pay for.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by oatnet » May 02, 2012 11:12 am

HumboldtRc wrote:Both sets of buss bars take solder after you scrape them with a knife.

The funny thing about the battery size is, my pit-bike battery box is 9.5 x 9.5 x 7", which is basically exactly the same size. But I can hold 6s 80ah of HK lipo in it. Compared to 7s 60ah of A123 cells, basically 50% volume difference between them.
Thanks for the pics, vid, and details!

I haven't seen your LiPo setup, but aren't you comparing LiFePO4 packaged in a protective case engineered to Western standards, to a LiPo pack that is essentially pouch cells in shrinkwrap? In one of my ancient threads about using a123 prisimatics, I did a comparison of an a123 prisimatic pack packaged similar to HK lipo, and found that LiPo was 15% lighter, and IIRC was 35-40% smaller. However, I did not include the weight or volume of the parallel/series power harness, charging harness, or BMS/LVC/monitoring boards that go into a LiPo setup, that I don't need for a123.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by zEEz » May 02, 2012 12:02 pm

Sutho wrote:They are dispatching 12 units today and 10 tomorrow.
22 units with 7s3p :shock: that makes conservatively 400v and 60Ah ... :twisted:
Are they meant for your DeLorean car conversion to EV project?
Impressive to decide to go with A123 instead of CALB .... :oops:
Only point, after I saw the pictures of the module ... It looks to me very painful to
operate modifications or repairs to that bitch of configuration if any cell goes dead .... :?

I was thinking of getting one module to turn it in a 18s1p -and 3 spare- pack, but
having seen how it is engineered, I see just plenty of pain :cry:

have fun!
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by SlyCayer » May 02, 2012 3:23 pm

I am eager to receive mine, so I can take a pack apart :D
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by oatnet » May 02, 2012 3:34 pm

I got part of my shipment today, and the 28s3p might be delivered this afternoon. Three 7s3p modules in a box weighed 102lbs. As you can see, they are indeed pretty rough, 2 modules were at 22.x v and the third at 19.x v, so I assume it has a bad 3p cell. The side of one box is slathered with thermopaste (yecch). I am booked for this evening, but I'll open them up if I have time. The 28s3p is the type of pack I want to use most, I hope it is in better shape.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by heathyoung » May 02, 2012 5:54 pm

Interesting - this must be how they intended to heatsink them?

They do look a lot rougher than their photos would have suggested.

Do you reckon you would fit 6 in a Vectrix? Maybe I should just finish mine with the thunderskys... :P
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Sutho » May 02, 2012 6:07 pm

zEEz wrote:
Sutho wrote:They are dispatching 12 units today and 10 tomorrow.
22 units with 7s3p :shock: that makes conservatively 400v and 60Ah ... :twisted:
Are they meant for your DeLorean car conversion to EV project?
Impressive to decide to go with A123 instead of CALB .... :oops:
Only point, after I saw the pictures of the module ... It looks to me very painful to
operate modifications or repairs to that bitch of configuration if any cell goes dead .... :?

I was thinking of getting one module to turn it in a 18s1p -and 3 spare- pack, but
having seen how it is engineered, I see just plenty of pain :cry:

have fun!
Yes....these modules were destined for the Delorean....if they are up to par. :roll:

If not, I will probably go with some high power LiMn204 modules. Current waiting for some sample of these to arrive as well.....

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » May 02, 2012 6:26 pm

oatnet wrote:2 modules were at 22.x v and the third at 19.x v, so I assume it has a bad 3p cell.
Did they offer you the same free replacement guarantee (+shipping you pay) just as they did for Sutho? :?:

Sutho, I hope that guarantee would *not* require you to return the bad module, because it would be a "worthless" guarantee if you had to do that. It seems just a digital picture showing the lower "defective voltage" of the pack voltage emailed to them should be sufficient to get a free module replacement (+shipping).

Oatnet is very experienced in configuring batteries & doing the spot welding etc., so he will be a good judge about repairing & replacing the 3p cells. I'm guessing all 3 cells must be bad now, since you're down 3v+. Nothing looks damaged from shipping, so it seems one of these modules was *not* really checked for correct pack voltage just before shipment? :?:

Oatnet, I sure hope your 28s3p module is perfect. :)

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by JRP3 » May 02, 2012 7:21 pm

deVries wrote:

Sutho, I hope that guarantee would *not* require you to return the bad module, because it would be a "worthless" guarantee if you had to do that. It seems just a digital picture showing the lower "defective voltage" of the pack voltage emailed to them should be sufficient to get a free module replacement (+shipping).
No way, too easy to fake, and the "bad" module still has valuable components, as you know. Basically everyone better be ready to keep whatever they get.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by oatnet » May 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Pressed for time, but I know you guys wanted some 28s3p Pron, so here it is. The DHL guy walked up to my garage with this 100+lb box in his arms like it was nuttin. :shock: 91.8v=3.28v/cell, quite reasonable for a half discharged pack. Right off the bat, I can tell these packs were meant to be sitting on a hard surface, not self-supported. I am sure the dents in packs came from them being boxed up, and the scratches could well have come from being moved around. I do get the sense that the pack is used.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by texaspyro » May 02, 2012 8:13 pm

Does it show pleasant enthusiasm if you hook the fat red wire to the fat black one? :twisted:

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by pgt400 » May 02, 2012 9:37 pm

Looking good! Can't wait to see what you get for capacity from this....58 ah's?
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by zaxxon » May 02, 2012 9:58 pm

Received our three 28s3p packs today. Two modules are significantly out of square. It seems this is due to the shipping packaging or improper handling. All three modules are used and have heatsink compound on their bottom.

One of the significantly out of square modules has one corner of the black plastic top crushed and broken. The cell under the broken corner is crushed and there are a few other cells with tops pushed in. This module is reading only 25.7 volts. The crushed corner cell is shorted. The others cells mostly read between 0.5 and 1.0 volts. I would say this module was likely bad before shipment.

The other very out of square/bowed module with one large dent and some bent aluminum plate corners has a voltage of 92.5 volts. All its cells read very close to each other at 3.29 +/- 0.02 volts open circuit.

The third module is reading 77.4 volts. Each cell group is reading around 2.75 volts. This module is the most square of the three and its shipping crate bottom was not pushed and bowed out near as much as the other two.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by peterperkins » May 03, 2012 1:53 am

Looking at the 28S3P packs that have been recd by other members i'm glad i have ordered three.
Fingers crossed I might get two good ones out of that :shock:

I was told there is no warranty anymore when I placed my order, so we are stuck with whatever we get.
If i wanted a warranty they would not sell them to me. :(

I suggest charge your 2.75v pack asap.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » May 03, 2012 5:37 am

zaxxon wrote:Received our three 28s3p packs today. Two modules are significantly out of square. It seems this is due to the shipping packaging or improper handling. All three modules are used and have heatsink compound on their bottom.

One of the significantly out of square modules has one corner of the black plastic top crushed and broken. The cell under the broken corner is crushed and there are a few other cells with tops pushed in. This module is reading only 25.7 volts. The crushed corner cell is shorted. The others cells mostly read between 0.5 and 1.0 volts. I would say this module was likely bad before shipment.

The other very out of square/bowed module with one large dent and some bent aluminum plate corners has a voltage of 92.5 volts. All its cells read very close to each other at 3.29 +/- 0.02 volts open circuit.

The third module is reading 77.4 volts. Each cell group is reading around 2.75 volts. This module is the most square of the three and its shipping crate bottom was not pushed and bowed out near as much as the other two.
Since these large sized modules with more weight/size are *NOT* being crated with enough foam protection, which is obvious from Oatnet's pics, this may be a good reason to order the smaller 7s3p modules *and* get each module crated separate! Don't combine modules in one box.

If ordering the 28s3p, then I definitely suggest *insisting* that much more foam protection is used. These modules are expensive & there is no reason -or- "excuse" they should not package these much more carefully with foam padding all sides AND also covering the total entire module surface area too, imo. :idea:

Zaxxon, where were your three 28s3p modules shipped to? :?:

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by JRP3 » May 03, 2012 7:46 am

It looks as if the wood itself is not strong enough to contain the pack weight, I'm not sure adding more foam would prevent the bowing, though it would add some protection. Really disappointing that they are willing to ship a module that is at 27 volts.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » May 03, 2012 8:20 am

JRP3 wrote:
deVries wrote:

Sutho, I hope that guarantee would *not* require you to return the bad module, because it would be a "worthless" guarantee if you had to do that. It seems just a digital picture showing the lower "defective voltage" of the pack voltage emailed to them should be sufficient to get a free module replacement (+shipping).
No way, too easy to fake, and the "bad" module still has valuable components, as you know. Basically everyone better be ready to keep whatever they get.
:lol: I have to disagree.

Seriously, how many DIY guys here buying these modules are going to lie, cheat, fake, steal about receiving a defective module! :shock: Zero! IMO. We are not thieves. We just want exactly what we were told we were getting... no more no less. That's a perfectly reasonable expectation and a standard that everyone can & should stand by... on both sides of this equation, meaning, seller & buyer. :idea:

Yes, we have to keep what is defective, since it would be unreasonable to return it. :wink:
oatnet wrote:Three 7s3p modules in a box weighed 102lbs.
JD, please post the weight of just one module & check if there are any significant weight differences between the three 7s3p. Thanks! :D
HumboldtRC wrote:The modules dimensions are 6.5" wide x 9" long x 9.5" tall

I don't own a scale, besides my little one I got from HK, so no weight. The shipping crate said 31kg and I think the cream weighs ~4 pounds, so the modules could weight 14.5kg...?? I'll take them to the a shipping store tomorrow and weigh them.
Have you had a chance to check the weight of your modules? We need to get an accurate weight for these modules. Thanks! :D

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by JRP3 » May 03, 2012 8:37 am

deVries wrote:
JRP3 wrote:
deVries wrote:

Sutho, I hope that guarantee would *not* require you to return the bad module, because it would be a "worthless" guarantee if you had to do that. It seems just a digital picture showing the lower "defective voltage" of the pack voltage emailed to them should be sufficient to get a free module replacement (+shipping).
No way, too easy to fake, and the "bad" module still has valuable components, as you know. Basically everyone better be ready to keep whatever they get.
:lol: I have to disagree.

Seriously, how many DIY guys here buying these modules are going to lie, cheat, fake, steal about receiving a defective module! :shock: Zero! IMO. We are not thieves. We just want exactly what we were told we were getting... no more no less. That's a perfectly reasonable expectation and a standard that everyone can & should stand by... on both sides of this equation, meaning, seller & buyer. :idea:

Yes, we have to keep what is defective, since it would be unreasonable to return it. :wink:
Yes, you'll get to keep it, and you won't get a refund. The seller has already stated as much. I'm sure everyone here is quite honest. I'm equally sure that the seller in China is not going to count on that honesty and start sending free replacement packs on the basis of a picture of a voltmeter.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Pure » May 03, 2012 10:16 am

Also, if you bring up the issue of their packing, you need to tread lightly. This vendor has already threatened to not sell to us over seas customers. If packing them becomes too problematic, they may just say no more sales. Trust me when I say they really don't need our business. There is more than enough of a market in china for these things. They really don't "need" to sell them out of country.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by parabellum » May 03, 2012 10:30 am

Guys, again, they are watching this tread. If you write here that you are ready to swallow every s**t do not expect anything else afterwards. In China are thousands of Victpowers and if some get international then they really need it, local marked is full. :|

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » May 03, 2012 10:41 am

JRP3 wrote:Yes, you'll get to keep it, and you won't get a refund. The seller has already stated as much.
For the sake of accuracy, no one was ever promised a refund. The seller has stated a replacement warranty for 7s3p, which is the topic of this thread. There never was mentioned a warranty for 28s3p, which someone posted that they won't sell those with a warranty. Fine. We don't need to talk ourselves out of a warranty for 7s3p, now, do we? If you continue on, then this may happen. :idea: That's not a good idea, ehh? :shock:

We don't need to debate this back and forth "here" on thread, as this is not being productive and helpful from a buyer standpoint. If you need to express more please do so by PM. IMO.
JRP3 wrote:I'm equally sure that the seller in China is not going to count on that honesty and start sending free replacement packs on the basis of a picture of a voltmeter.
Hobby King has routinely allowed for digital photos to be taken for warranty & return issues, so you are just offering an opinion that is giving the seller an "out". Who's side are you on? :wink: Anyway, you are not the seller, so it's not for you to push the issue or agenda on their behalf. IMO.

Let's move-on. Debate by PM.

As for obvious poor packaging practices, we need to point that out so hopefully they will correct it! Or, maybe you will be next person with the defective module, because it wasn't packed correctly. The trading company is selling these overseas, because they probably make 10x to 20x times the profit they could selling to a local. They need to package better, period. Again, let's move on. :idea:

No need to banter this back and forth on this thread. PM if you must. Thanks! for understanding. :D

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by SlyCayer » May 03, 2012 11:23 am

deVries wrote:Who's side are you on? :wink: Anyway, you are not the seller, so it's not for you to push the issue or agenda on their behalf. IMO.
\o/ I was wondering the same thing, and I agree...
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by zEEz » May 03, 2012 12:41 pm

Sorry if I bother you all :oops:
I saw lot of pictures, very cool from the side of who got the toys :lol:
.. I mean, to be so fast and precise ... but as a potential buyer, I must say
I'm not so inclined anymore ... oatnet 7s3p modules were kind of in working order ...
... one 28s3p miracle was fine, other 3 were quite abused ...
BUT CLEARLY WE ARE TALKING OF SOME USED CELLS ... and if some module that is 70%
faulty has menaged to show up ... well ... statistics is, what you can tell :roll:

Good luck to whom has bought, have fun!
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Ratking » May 03, 2012 12:48 pm

Pure wrote:Also, if you bring up the issue of their packing, you need to tread lightly. This vendor has already threatened to not sell to us over seas customers. If packing them becomes too problematic, they may just say no more sales. Trust me when I say they really don't need our business. There is more than enough of a market in china for these things. They really don't "need" to sell them out of country.
I would like to know more about your inside information. How do you know shit about how the Chinese marked is?
I would say close to the opposite, but thats just my subjective opinion just as yours as long as you don't give us some proof.
It's like you want to feed the seller with arguments.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by 999zip999 » May 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Dr.Bass and Steveo how do you name on the top of this thread ?

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