Lipo configuration is this adequate

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mushymelon   1 kW

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Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 24 2012 6:16pm

Here is a very poorly done schematic that I need some confirmation on.
I have not purchased any items yet but I would like the communities feedback.

Im planning on a 24s 3p lipo setup with multiple balance chargers to charge the whole pack.
I will be running a 12 fet lyen controller with an upgraded golden motor, 12g wires and temp probe.
Air cooling, monitored by a cycle analysis.

please review the following image and let me know if you have any concerns.

How long do you think it would take to fully charge the battery with this setup.

Thanks
matt lipo1.jpg

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 24 2012 11:08pm

Sounds like 2,700usd.

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by wesnewell » Dec 25 2012 12:35am

Should take about 2 hours unless there's a balance problem. That's 1332wh of batteries and 4 200w chargers, so about 2 hours it is.
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TMaster   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by TMaster » Dec 25 2012 2:13am

I would upgrade the capacitors inside the controller to 120-200V capable, since you are going to have 100V hot off the charger. The caps will last longer. Lyen should be able to do it for you before he sends it out.

With the charging setup you have pictured, you could charge all the batteries at once without disconnecting them from eachother, but you would need to use only the N and L power connections to the power supplies so they would not be on the same ground. If the power supplies are not isolated it will damage the chargers. (Not sure if the PSU's you are getting can run without the ground... I think they can but I have not tested personally) I actually just finished my charging and harness setup to do this. I have extra power taps on the batteries, but I am using Laptop power supplies that have no grounds, just the N and L (16V 7.5A). I got really tired of taking the big side panel off, unplugging all the packs from the harness and charging that way. It is so much easier for me now just to unscrew 2 screws and just plug in.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by dogman dan » Dec 25 2012 6:39am

I agree, those look comparable to my 150w, 7 amp max chargers. Two hours sounds about right. Figure you only discharge 100 wh( of a possible 125 wh) per pack on a conservative discharge, then you'd have about 300wh to put back into each paralelled set of three packs. But if you add time to balance, it could take up to three hours.

But if the chargers are only 150w, and the meanwells are 350w, you could run two chargers on one meanwell, saving yourself a hundred or so. If they are 200w chargers, you could just set them for 175w by selecting 7 amps.

Or get 4 300w chargers, and aim for closer to a 1 hour charge.

It's important to avoid charging times for your lipo that are more than 2-3 hours. After all, you ARE supposed to stay awake and keep an eye on things.

Another option worth considering, is 2 300w chargers. Then paralell six packs to charge them all at once on two chargers and two meanwells.

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by Camel » Dec 25 2012 11:14am

Hi mushymelon

Damn. As per your diagram - (You say 24s,3p)

Maybe that's what messes with my head in coupling these LIPO packs.

Why do I see your diagram as -18s4p? (I assume as per the diagram - [3 x 6 Cell Pack (Paralell) = (22.2v) 15 Ah] x 4 Series = 88.8 v Nom, 15 Ah

Yeah - send me back to LIPO battery basic class - :oops:

---- edit -----

ID10T error! I am leaving my original comment above for my own misunderstanding and hopefully the benefit of others for the good laugh when I do couple of my own packs - Have this crazy feeling I am going to experience a bit of KFF!!


(What a NOOB I am. My apologies.)

----- edit -----


The reason for my post is actually on the series disconnect switch you are going to implement.



Jeremy Harris and Spinning Magnets showed an idea for this solution -http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ng#p646481 and http://www.electricbike.com/specialized-super-charged/

Hyena's thread - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... er#p601211 Da Man! (Jay you Rock!)

I am waiting delivery on a BC168 controller and 6 bricks of TURNIGY 6s 5Ah 20c. I don't have as powerful setup as yourself and just want to string a pack of 12s3p (44.4v Nom, 15Ah) and parallel charge. (Charging time is not an issue in my case).

Please correct me if I misunderstood your diagram - Would like to see your ideas on the series disconnect switch.

Merry Xmas - Happy Holiday's - Cheers
Trying to to get a E-Bike on the road.

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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 25 2012 1:17pm

999zip999 wrote:Sounds like 2,700usd.
Its not that spendy

The deal extreme power supplies are only $32 each with free shipping and bulk discount and the chargers are only $72 dollars each with free shipping and bulk-rate discount .

Charging system would be $421.31 plus Charging leads and whatnot.

The lipos are pricey because of the shipping costs to Canada I will have to order it in two lots

7 6s 5000mah plus lipo Buzzer/monitor x5 shrink tubing some wiring and other stuff to bring it up to 7 kg about $450 thats including $111 dollars for shipping Multiplied by 2 is $900 plus $421 charging setup.

$1321 dollars total not including customs charges hopefully I will get lucky there its like rolling the dice lately I've been lucky.

With a purchase of a new crimping tool and all the cables and connectors and whatnot I should still come in under $1500.

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by Camel » Dec 25 2012 1:35pm

Nice deal on the package.

I took this one a couple of weeks back - http://www.ebay.com/itm/190705120687?ss ... 1497.l2649

Still waiting on delivery, (Gonna cry on the delivery/TAX charge). But you gotta go LIPO!
Trying to to get a E-Bike on the road.

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 25 2012 1:36pm

Plus ; I will be running a 12 fet lyen controller with an upgraded golden motor, 12g wires and temp probe.
Air cooling, monitored by a cycle analysis.
You must know this is just a start as this hobby has a deep never ending pocket. Then everything is put a shipping list. So we have get an extra.

Good to see the prices coming down on the BC168

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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 25 2012 2:10pm

TMaster wrote:I would upgrade the capacitors inside the controller to 120-200V capable, since you are going to have 100V hot off the charger. The caps will last longer. Lyen should be able to do it for you before he sends it out.

With the charging setup you have pictured, you could charge all the batteries at once without disconnecting them from eachother, but you would need to use only the N and L power connections to the power supplies so they would not be on the same ground. If the power supplies are not isolated it will damage the chargers. (Not sure if the PSU's you are getting can run without the ground... I think they can but I have not tested personally) I actually just finished my charging and harness setup to do this. I have extra power taps on the batteries, but I am using Laptop power supplies that have no grounds, just the N and L (16V 7.5A). I got really tired of taking the big side panel off, unplugging all the packs from the harness and charging that way. It is so much easier for me now just to unscrew 2 screws and just plug in.
I already have the controller, the resistor internals have been modded by Lyen to run 24s 3p or 18s 4p but the caps have not been upgraded. I plan on running @ 45amp or less. But you know how it is with access to more power. Do you think I'm going to burn this thing up fast? the motor is an 8x8 wind. Wheres the best place to install a temp probe on the controller. And what Temp limits should I Stay under.

I like the external charging Panel its an Idea that I may adopt. Your whole Battery setup is impressive very clean and well thought out. Do you have a thread on the construction of the Charging panel I would like to see how you mounted the connectors inside and what materials you used.

The power supplies are not set in stone yet, but some reviews say they get hot at 250 watts but the fan only turns on @ a certain temperature so I'm assuming they will provide enough power. With an extra fan powered right of the extra leads i'm hoping they will stay cool. Another person commented that the internals have headroom for more than 30 amps keeping them cool is the key but we won't know until I open one up.

As for the Series disconnect, yes its will be a pain I wan't to have the batteries in hand before I can even Begin to design the battery box. Its going to be tight too tight to mockup batteries based on the specs. I DO wan't to charge the whole thing without disconnecting the series connections. After reading Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance charger sales thread i'm inclined to just disconnect the series leads for now as being a lipo noob. and rc charger / power supply noob.
But I'm hoping someone on the Sphere will test this first. Some research on Safely isolating power supplies is in order.

What about if I used your Idea but instead of having Separate power leads inside the smaller charging panel I could run all the Series connections to the panel box, then use jumpers to disconnect the series connections.
Last edited by mushymelon on Dec 25 2012 2:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 25 2012 2:35pm

dogman wrote:I agree, those look comparable to my 150w, 7 amp max chargers. Two hours sounds about right. Figure you only discharge 100 wh( of a possible 125 wh) per pack on a conservative discharge, then you'd have about 300wh to put back into each paralelled set of three packs. But if you add time to balance, it could take up to three hours.

But if the chargers are only 150w, and the meanwells are 350w, you could run two chargers on one meanwell, saving yourself a hundred or so. If they are 200w chargers, you could just set them for 175w by selecting 7 amps.

Or get 4 300w chargers, and aim for closer to a 1 hour charge.

It's important to avoid charging times for your lipo that are more than 2-3 hours. After all, you ARE supposed to stay awake and keep an eye on things.

Another option worth considering, is 2 300w chargers. Then paralell six packs to charge them all at once on two chargers and two meanwells.
Im a little iffy on the power supplies myself, could you supply some links to qaulity power supplies that would work well with this setup.

I was planning on running a 2.4 ghz wifi camera in the aluminium shed where I will be charging. Monitoring the chargers from my iPad. Hopefully this will give me the freedom to at least watch TV. I would like to have a High voltage alarm of some kind the camera should also transmit the alarm sound to the monitor and get my attention. Other failsafes include runnig the power supplies on separate gfi's and installing a breaker box in the man cave for just that outlet. And a big fat fire extinguisher in a separate Pillar booth about 10 feet from the shed.

I'm planning on using my watts up meter to monitor the power supplies output while slowly increasing the amps on the charger This is only a guess but If they don't max out before they reach 8 amps or 200 watts and nothing is overheating can I assume they are adequate for the job?

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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 25 2012 2:56pm

Camel wrote:Hi mushymelon

Damn. As per your diagram - (You say 24s,3p)

Maybe that's what messes with my head in coupling these LIPO packs.

Why do I see your diagram as -18s4p? (I assume as per the diagram - [3 x 6 Cell Pack (Paralell) = (22.2v) 15 Ah] x 4 Series = 88.8 v Nom, 15 Ah

Yeah - send me back to LIPO battery basic class - :oops:

---- edit -----

ID10T error! I am leaving my original comment above for my own misunderstanding and hopefully the benefit of others for the good laugh when I do couple of my own packs - Have this crazy feeling I am going to experience a bit of KFF!!


(What a NOOB I am. My apologies.)

----- edit -----


The reason for my post is actually on the series disconnect switch you are going to implement.



Jeremy Harris and Spinning Magnets showed an idea for this solution -http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ng#p646481 and http://www.electricbike.com/specialized-super-charged/

Hyena's thread - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... er#p601211 Da Man! (Jay you Rock!)

I am waiting delivery on a BC168 controller and 6 bricks of TURNIGY 6s 5Ah 20c. I don't have as powerful setup as yourself and just want to string a pack of 12s3p (44.4v Nom, 15Ah) and parallel charge. (Charging time is not an issue in my case).

Please correct me if I misunderstood your diagram - Would like to see your ideas on the series disconnect switch.

Merry Xmas - Happy Holiday's - Cheers
Im a lipo noob myself I've read the lipo noob, safety and charging /discharging threads and any other related stuff on the subject so many times my brain has locked out all that information probably based on fear of lipo fires and cooked fingers and whatnot.

I think just pulling the trigger on the stuff I need and making a diagram asking the forum for a little hand holding, its seems all that information is starting to unlock itself.

About the series disconnect switch stay tuned for that i'm not sure yet it may be simple for now because I would like to isolate the power supplies eventually and keep the series connection together permanently.

Well I can smell the turkey cooking

I wan't to wish everybody a merry christmas

And don't drink and drive.

Drink and bike instead but wear your helmet

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 25 2012 6:33pm

Hear one
Battery - Charger Config v2.pdf
(194.09 KiB) Downloaded 61 times

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by docnjoj » Dec 25 2012 6:54pm

Drink and bike instead but wear your helmet
Nah! Don't drink and bike but just stay home. The life you save may be your own!
otherDoc
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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: Lipo configuration is this adequate

Post by mushymelon » Dec 25 2012 7:58pm

docnjoj wrote:
Drink and bike instead but wear your helmet
Nah! Don't drink and bike but just stay home. The life you save may be your own!
otherDoc
Good advice doc and for the record I do not condone drinking and driving any vehicle, powered or els wise.

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