Any experience / opinion on Li-NMC packs from HiPowercycles

joepah

joepah

10 W
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
93
http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?productId=29&categoryId=5

Expensive $1000 delivered for a 63v 12.5ah LINMC battery pack w/charger. Only weighs 10.6 lbs.. Can fit in a frame easily.

They say 700+ cycles...

Are there better choices, consider size, cycle life and cost?
 
Size will be a bit bigger but cost will be lower and cycle life would be higher with Ping or cellman packs. EbikesSF has the allcell packs which is probably a similar cell. You will be dealing with good business people in all these cases. The high power cycles pack is around 1,300 per kw/hr which is bank robbery. They probably have a 300-400% markup and it does not come with customer service like you will get with the more DIY friendly pack suppliers.
 
mikebikerad said:
Size will be a bit bigger but cost will be lower and cycle life would be higher with Ping or cellman packs. EbikesSF has the allcell packs which is probably a similar cell. You will be dealing with good business people in all these cases. The high power cycles pack is around 1,300 per kw/hr which is bank robbery. They probably have a 300-400% markup and it does not come with customer service like you will get with the more DIY friendly pack suppliers.
Click to expand...


Fair enough... Ping is out.. Allcell is about the same price as high power but is a domestic supplier with a 2 year warranty, but no 60v pack. Will checkout cellman

thanks
 
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
 
If someone wants a battery that is relatively safe and has the extra money to spend I could see buying their products.
 
wesnewell said:
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
Click to expand...

Hobby Lipos are kind of crude.. Cant figure out how to charge the entire 60v pack at once.. If you make a mistake goodbye pack.. And they only last maybe 300 cycles? And the failure rate of new ones seems pretty high...good for racing or playing a round i guess but i want a reliable fast e bike...
 
answer will always come down to HK lipo for best bang for the buck. Takes a very long time to build one properly with paralleled balance leads and discharge wires though. Best way to charge it all at once is bulk charge with some cell monitors/balancers
 
That's expensive! For that price, I'd much rather have an A123 pack. Sure it's bigger and heavier but its performance, safety and longevity are well worth it.

wesnewell said:
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
Click to expand...
I disagree completely. My brief, controlled test of HK RC LiCo ended in a disaster. That $250 is peanut compared to the high potential loss caused by fire.
 
joepah said:
wesnewell said:
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
Click to expand...

Hobby Lipos are kind of crude.. Cant figure out how to charge the entire 60v pack at once.. If you make a mistake goodbye pack.. And they only last maybe 300 cycles? And the failure rate of new ones seems pretty high...good for racing or playing a round i guess but i want a reliable fast e bike...
Click to expand...
Yep, you need to buy that $1K battery pack. But I'll stick with HK lipo that I plan to get a heck of lot more than 300 cycles from it at a 3C discharge rate for 20C lipo. Of course after 5 years I'll peobably be ready for another pack anyway. BTW I have no problem balance charging my 10ah 24s (88.8v) pack all at once. I've made lots of little mistakes including shorting it out fully charged and it did nothing other than blow up the connectors and burn the crap out of my fingers. But that can be done with any battery pack. Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had a failure in the 4 packs I've built over the last 2 years. I don't use a bms. I'm kind of crude myself, so we go together good.
 
SamTexas said:
TI disagree completely. My brief, controlled test of HK RC LiCo ended in a disaster. That $250 is peanut compared to the high potential loss caused by fire.
Click to expand...
Maybe you elaborate on your test methods.
 
wesnewell said:
joepah said:
wesnewell said:
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
Click to expand...

Hobby Lipos are kind of crude.. Cant figure out how to charge the entire 60v pack at once.. If you make a mistake goodbye pack.. And they only last maybe 300 cycles? And the failure rate of new ones seems pretty high...good for racing or playing a round i guess but i want a reliable fast e bike...
Click to expand...
Yep, you need to buy that $1K battery pack. But I'll stick with HK lipo that I plan to get a heck of lot more than 300 cycles from it at a 3C discharge rate for 20C lipo. Of course after 5 years I'll peobably be ready for another pack anyway. BTW I have no problem balance charging my 10ah 24s (88.8v) pack all at once. I've made lots of little mistakes including shorting it out fully charged and it did nothing other than blow up the connectors and burn the crap out of my fingers. But that can be done with any battery pack. Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had a failure in the 4 packs I've built over the last 2 years. I don't use a bms. I'm kind of crude myself, so we go together good.
Click to expand...

LOL... Well you cannot be that crude if you've been able to work those batteries for that long.... There must be a certain amount of attention to detail with these Turnigy's.
 
wesnewell said:
joepah said:
wesnewell said:
If size and weight are a factor, just go with 10ah of 18s 20C (200A) lico (66.6V nominal) for ~$250, 10.5lbs. IMO, only an idiot would pay that much for that pack.
Click to expand...

Hobby Lipos are kind of crude.. Cant figure out how to charge the entire 60v pack at once.. If you make a mistake goodbye pack.. And they only last maybe 300 cycles? And the failure rate of new ones seems pretty high...good for racing or playing a round i guess but i want a reliable fast e bike...
Click to expand...
Yep, you need to buy that $1K battery pack. But I'll stick with HK lipo that I plan to get a heck of lot more than 300 cycles from it at a 3C discharge rate for 20C lipo. Of course after 5 years I'll peobably be ready for another pack anyway. BTW I have no problem balance charging my 10ah 24s (88.8v) pack all at once. I've made lots of little mistakes including shorting it out fully charged and it did nothing other than blow up the connectors and burn the crap out of my fingers. But that can be done with any battery pack. Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had a failure in the 4 packs I've built over the last 2 years. I don't use a bms. I'm kind of crude myself, so we go together good.
Click to expand...
the most babied lipos last 5-600 cycles. even at 3C, you're probably looking at less than 400 cycles
 
ian.mich said:
the most babied lipos last 5-600 cycles. even at 3C, you're probably looking at less than 400 cycles
Click to expand...

OK, but that is probably 2+ years use to the average user.
..by which time cells will most likely be much cheaper and you could either simply replace with the cheap LiCo, or buy that ( now cheaper) NMC pack and still be way ahead $$ wise !
PS: my 4 year old HK LiCo packs are still working fine with bulk charging and only very occasional balancing. !
 
Hillhater said:
ian.mich said:
the most babied lipos last 5-600 cycles. even at 3C, you're probably looking at less than 400 cycles
Click to expand...

OK, but that is probably 2+ years use to the average user.
..by which time cells will most likely be much cheaper and you could either simply replace with the cheap LiCo, or buy that ( now cheaper) NMC pack and still be way ahead $$ wise !
PS: my 4 year old HK LiCo packs are still working fine with bulk charging and only very occasional balancing. !
Click to expand...
Yeah not knocking it, lipo is the shit to use and is fairly safe all things considered. My 24s 15ah should last plenty longer than i'll want it to, considering all the batt tech that's right around the corner.
You must know your individual paralleled cell voltages while bulk charging, so watch out if you don't have cell beeper/bunch of batt medics set to discharge. or be like john in cr and have your bikes far from harm.
 
ian.mich said:
You must know your individual paralleled cell voltages while bulk charging, so watch out if you don't have cell beeper/bunch of batt medics set to discharge. or be like john in cr and have your bikes far from harm.
Click to expand...

Celllogs monitor each paralleled set of cells.
Human BMS . :wink:
I only ever have to "balance" one cell by giving it a little individual boost occasionally .
They all stay within 50mV of each other ( at full charge, ..20mV at mid-charge )
 
wesnewell said:
SamTexas said:
TI disagree completely. My brief, controlled test of HK RC LiCo ended in a disaster. That $250 is peanut compared to the high potential loss caused by fire.
Click to expand...
Maybe you elaborate on your test methods.
Click to expand...

Quote from the "Info on Laptop 18650 LiCo cells" thread:
SamTexas said:
I bought a tiny Turnigy NanoTech rated at 35C continuous. I tested it at 10C, it worked fine. I tested at 15C, it was hotter than I like, but still worked fine. Finally I tested at 30C. At 30C it should last 2 minutes. Guess what? After 60 seconds it began to puff. At 90 seconds it looked like a balloon, about twice its original size. I stopped the test, not wanting to cause a fire in my study. So after only 3 cycles operating below its ratings, the cell is dead.
Click to expand...
 
SamTexas said:
I bought a tiny Turnigy NanoTech rated at 35C continuous. I tested it at 10C, it worked fine. I tested at 15C, it was hotter than I like, but still worked fine. Finally I tested at 30C. At 30C it should last 2 minutes. Guess what? After 60 seconds it began to puff. At 90 seconds it looked like a balloon, about twice its original size. I stopped the test, not wanting to cause a fire in my study. So after only 3 cycles operating below its ratings, the cell is dead.
[/quote
But that's not terribly comparitive to an ebike discharge, ebikes try to run 25% max of the continuous rating. 5C from a $30 74Wh pack is pretty darn good, whether it can sustain its full rating or not. since when has china been known to be accurate with their ratings? but if that's only a tiny portion of your tests, then i'll shut up.
Click to expand...
 
2.5 years of use, multiple shorts, 170+ cycles, only been balanced about 5 times, and my 20AH 10S pack is still kicking.
RC Lipo is not all that bad. There are a few people on the forum who have edged these packs into 400-600 cycle territory.

But RC Lipo packs are no substitute for something premade, in terms of ease of use and being consumer friendly.
RC Lipo is awesome if you know what you are doing and are willing to invest the time and $$$ into buying quality equipment to deal with them. Otherwise it is an extreme liability if you do dumb crap with it. It is the most volatile battery you could possibly buy and the failure modes are not pretty.

[youtube]ctY4oBrqK5U[/youtube]

^-- here is what just one 6S 5AH lipo pack looks like when having an.... ahem.. thermal event

I'm not sure about the hipowercycles packs. But just wanted to add my 2 cents to those who are attempting to sway people in the way of RC Lipos..
 
ian.mich said:
the most babied lipos last 5-600 cycles. even at 3C, you're probably looking at less than 400 cycles
Click to expand...
I could live with 400 cycles. That will take at least 6 years to get to. But most of the time I'm pulling less than 1C, so I think they'll last a lot longer than 400 cycles. I know some have been using 1st gen rc lipo for more than 6 years.
 
SamTexas said:
wesnewell said:
SamTexas said:
TI disagree completely. My brief, controlled test of HK RC LiCo ended in a disaster. That $250 is peanut compared to the high potential loss caused by fire.
Click to expand...
Maybe you elaborate on your test methods.
Click to expand...

Quote from the "Info on Laptop 18650 LiCo cells" thread:
SamTexas said:
I bought a tiny Turnigy NanoTech rated at 35C continuous. I tested it at 10C, it worked fine. I tested at 15C, it was hotter than I like, but still worked fine. Finally I tested at 30C. At 30C it should last 2 minutes. Guess what? After 60 seconds it began to puff. At 90 seconds it looked like a balloon, about twice its original size. I stopped the test, not wanting to cause a fire in my study. So after only 3 cycles operating below its ratings, the cell is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I guess one could call that controlled, but a test of a single battery pack is not considered much at all. To be valid, test need to be repeated. You could have had a single bad pack. Made a mistake in your test, or had faulty testing equipment.
 
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