Lipo Starter Kit

How is this for a shopping list for a Lipo Starter Kit:

Shopping List:
(2) Low voltage alarms: Hobbyking 2-8S Cell Checker with Low Voltage Alarm
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18588__Hobbyking_2_8S_Cell_Checker_with_Low_Voltage_Alarm.html
Or:
Hobby King Battery Monitor 6S
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__7227__Hobby_King_Battery_Monitor_6S.html
(2) 6s chargers IMAX B6-AC charger (A/C: no power supply needed)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6478__IMAX_B6_AC_Charger_Discharger_1_6_Cells_GENUINE_.html
(2) Battery: ZIPPY Flightmax 8000mAh 6S1P 30C
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16228__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C_.html
(2) Cell log (mostly to check cell status after riding and after charging)
Celllog-8M - Cell-Log 8M Cell Voltage Monitor 2-8S Li..
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10952__Cell_Log_8M_Cell_Voltage_Monitor_2_8S_Lipo.html

No need for a cellog AND a low voltage alarm... and i recommend an icharger instead of a imax B6!

What is the advantage to the icharger?

If your going to be running 12s1p on a standard 48V controller, you don't need any of that stuff except a 6s balance charger. The controllers LVC will be 42V and that will keep you from over discharging your pack. You can check the balance when you charge. You can use a simple volt meter to check soc while riding if you want to.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Digital-Voltmeter-DC-15V-To-120V-Red-Led-Voltage-Digital-Panel-Meter-/170846310527
But all that stuff is just paranoia prevention you don't need. You'd be better off spending your money on a 12s charger to simplify charging.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Get the first low voltage alarm it is loud and adjustable .plus you can see the cell voltage on the display .


get cellog s-the more expensive one, you can log your rides good to learn about your battery heaLth
cellog 8 s

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=9282

charger-dont get any less than two 150 watt, then you can charge in aboutt an hour.
my 2 cents.

chas58 said:

What is the advantage to the icharger?

Click to expand...

Quality!!!

The Imax charger is only 50watt at 6s.

A single 50 watt charger will charge one six series brick at 2.2 Amps max.
So if you rode 15 miles and used 4 AmpHrs then spend 2 hours charging each brick.
With lipo, the charging can get expensive but a good charger is worth the money.

wesnewell said:

If your going to be running 12s1p on a standard 48V controller, you don't need any of that stuff except a 6s balance charger. The controllers LVC will be 42V and that will keep you from over discharging your pack. You can check the balance when you charge.

Click to expand...

He might have a similar controller model like mine. From some of his previous post information he has some kind of KU model Chinese controller. On my KU123 controller the LVC cut off is 35.75v which is a bit too low for s12 lipo, 35.75/12 = 2.9v. The only way I can modify it to 42v on the KU123 is to solder a different ohmed resister. Which is unlike some nicer controllers where you can reprogram it.

The alarms cost little so no harm in having them. Likely, if you have a voltmeter of any kind on the bike, you will soon not need them much. You'll just learn to stop when you get to 42v or 45v.

I like a cellog 8 for checking cells, if you get worried about them at some point on the ride. Fits nice in a pocket, get it out to see what's going on at any moment.

The b6 is a good charger, good and slow. You want something faster. Many choices. I went with two 150w chargers myself, and have been pretty happy with them, since I get 300w of charging flow with two of them. Anything much less than 200w takes too long, so get a bigger charger. One will be fine, you can parallel the packs to charge them easy.

wesnewell said:

If your going to be running 12s1p on a standard 48V controller, you don't need any of that stuff except a 6s balance charger. The controllers LVC will be 42V and that will keep you from over discharging your pack. You can check the balance when you charge. You can use a simple volt meter to check soc while riding if you want to.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Digital-Voltmeter-DC-15V-To-120V-Red-Led-Voltage-Digital-Panel-Meter-/170846310527
But all that stuff is just paranoia prevention you don't need. You'd be better off spending your money on a 12s charger to simplify charging.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Click to expand...

I agree with everything u said.

Just check the voltages before and after a ride with a cell log if u want to be cautious. Otherwise pack lvc will be triggered by your controller.

If your controllers LVC is too low, then either change it, or use a voltmeter to monitor pack voltage. Make sure you wire the voltmeter to the controller side of the pack so it doesn't draw power from the pack when you remove power from the controller. I'd recommend no less than 3.5V per cell as a good LVC for rc lipo. That's 35V for a 10s pack and 42V for a 12s pack. That will let you use up to 96% of full charge.

Trouble with those cell level alarms is that they often take power from the first two or three cells, so draining the pack unevenly, helping it go out of balance.

The Hyperion 1420 charger can charge 14 in series so you can charge the pack in one go without needing to split it.

wesnewell said:

But all that stuff is just paranoia prevention you don't need. You'd be better off spending your money on a 12s charger to simplify charging.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Click to expand...

Did someone mention the Thunder 1220? ... I would NOT recommend it!
TLDR: Had two of them. First one up in smoke. Second one: screen stopped working. Refund took a month.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46335

So we recommend the hyperion? Others have had them blow too.

Conclusion, any charger can go poof. But yeah, any decent wattage charger beats 50w stuff that's only good for small batteries. Big bike batteries need 150-300w or more. Otherwise you fall asleep while charging lipo. Not a good idea.

Running the little alarms is fine, but YES, you MUST unplug them when you stop riding for long. Can't just build them in and leave them. NO NO NO.

A good wattmeter that you can read on the fly is best, The Cycleanalyst is the one to have. But if nothing else, a voltmeter will let you know when the whole pack is low.

Skedgy Sky said:

wesnewell said:

But all that stuff is just paranoia prevention you don't need. You'd be better off spending your money on a 12s charger to simplify charging.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw

Click to expand...

Did someone mention the Thunder 1220? ... I would NOT recommend it!
TLDR: Had two of them. First one up in smoke. Second one: screen stopped working. Refund took a month.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46335

Click to expand...

I've been using my 1220 daily for about 2 months now with no problems. It just charges and balances with little fuss. Much easier to use than the Hyperion and far less "Fussy" and sensitive.
otherDoc

This is great information, thanks. I've been busy playing with my 328rpm Q100 motor, and that is working out well, fortunately.

Yeah, my controller is the KU63/KU65, which has a low voltage cut off of 29volts. Kinda low eh? Looks like a simple alarm would be good. Lots of people seem to like this kit on 12s Lipos (Q100 201rpm motor with KU63/65)

An alarm is good at first for sure. Later, if you ride the same route much, you will only need to know you started with a full charge.

I just ordered some new alarms the other day, supposed to be adjustable. It would be nice to have a beep at 3.5v one day, or 3.8v another. Mostly I'll be using those only when I expect to want to be discharging 100%. Like a long ride in the mountains where you won't want to stop till it's all gone.

Day to day riding in town, just carry enough capacity to not have any worries.

You can also consider a full power meter, fair few from HKs "Tools > Watt Meter " section.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?whl=XX&idCategory=471&v=&sortlist=P&LiPoConfig=&CatSortOrder=desc

This one is a good fit for 12S, says it has an adjustable voltage alarm. If I was going to get one I would probably get this. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25703__Turnigy_2_in_1_Power_Meter_Servo_Meter_1_5_TFT.html


I got a ebay bought clone of one of these (but the Turnigy is better)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
I got mine plugged right at the end of my battery pack, after that is my master power switch, then ebike controller. This way I can turn my ebike off and still have a total Ah/Watts used is still intact.

I have it sitting in a "bicycle front tube phone bag" from ebay like this. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Waterproof-Cycling-Bike-Bicycle-Frame-Pannier-Front-Tube-Bag-For-Cell-Phone-Blue-/400472629451?pt=AU_Cycling_New_&hash=item5d3e0760cb&_uhb=1

$230 delivered for 5 of the 6S hobby king lipo, $24 for 15S BMS. use any of the 48V lifepo4 chargers i have. so for $254 a 10Ah 15S lipo that charges to 62.2V and can be used with the 36V controller. never have to balance charge. always have a BMS for short circuit protection and protection from over discharge and the BMS will balance the pack just like the icharger does. plus it will charge faster with a big bulk charger. which you can buy for the money wasted on multiple balance chargers.

dnmun,

$24 for 15S BMS...

Is there a link to this available?

Thx!

"Running the little alarms is fine, but YES, you MUST unplug them when you stop riding for long. Can't just build them in and leave them. NO NO NO."
I just wire a switch into the negative lead to the alarm and turn it off when I'm not using the battery.

Two of these little 8s alarms have gone out of calibration. I about freaked out when it said one of my cells was 4.35V. I immediately put a load on that cell and started to bleed it down when it occured to me to check the voltage with a real dvm. The alarm reads about three tenths of a volt high on S4. Since then I check all of them with the dvm any time I see an unusual reading. I plan to set up a variable supply to test if they actually alarm at the right voltage.

12s is best made up with 4s 5Ah handcase packs. About $25 each from HK. The hard case solves many packaging problems, and at $25 a brick there disposable. It's half the price of a 6s brick, for 66% of the capacity. It's win after win.

A suitable bms is $25 and a 300w charger about $40
http://ecity.en.alibaba.com/product/800537641-50419686/ecitypower_smart_bms_5_13_Cells_in_Series_for_e_bike.html
http://ecity.en.alibaba.com/product/1164311008-218652593/ecitypower_high_quality_electric_motor_electric_boat_cycles_battery_charger.html

BMSbattery have just the same for the same money. It's typical pricing. LiPo bms units are a bit thin on the ground though. Dnmun gets good prices from Bestek, but they don't publish there prices, and in fact quote me around $40 not $25 So it was $62 by the time it was in my hand. If ecity post at similar rates then you might have it all for $100

I just looked at the hyperion and can't see the attraction. It was $140 before postage(inc $9 temp sensor not provided). It is a twin 7s design so you won't be simply plugging in. It does not appear to plug in the wall, it needs a separate power supply that won't be cheap. You will need stuff on the bike for any sort of protection while in use. It's a long way from a charger you just plug in and switch on. I would say its simply the wrong kit. If you spend that much on the right kit it will be loads tidier and offer better protection with faster charge rates.

The other charger here is the $150 unreliable one that will take a pair of 6s but that means cells cost $25 more each time, so $175 for now and climbing. Plus P&P and to top it off it is just like the other one here, It is just control gear and requires an expensive psu or car battery. It's needlessly messy and less effective yet costs more money.

We are not playing around with radio controlled models. We don't have to charge off the car with one charger that suits many different things we carry. We don't need balance boards to to split longer packs in to shorter more manageable parallel pieces. We have a fixed size pack that is charged from the wall. We only need to plug in and wait.

An over complicated battery pack is not my idea of entertainment. I think people that like a ridiculous amount of interaction with there batteries should buy a cycleanalist. That is real food for thought.


I have serious doubts about hearing a cellog alarm when the wind is wizzing past your head. I imagine it is a total waste of time. I can't hear a thing at 20mph. I can't think of a single reason to take the risk. I have heard the arguments and openly calculated the lot. All oem's use a bms because you have too. If you have a load of radio control stuff laying about then yes it can work, but you wouldn't go specifically to buy the stuff. That is a different hobby with different needs. I myself have a b6 incase my proper kit is out of action, but only because it is so cheap and I may actually want to charge from 12v some time. I would never put the wrong kit first.



Sorry for the long post. It seems to be all I talk about here. It is doing my nut in. I find it akin to wearing your slippers on the wrong feet and arguing they fit because they are soft enough. Nearly all these lipo fires trace back to swapping wires around to charge instead of using a bms you know. Choose who you listen to wisely. My advice is follow the oem examples.

chas58,

What pieces/parts did you end up purchasing?

Thx.