The ultimate onboard charging solution

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:19 pm

After spending several years with crappy hobby / questionable chinese quality charger setups, I decided enough was enough:

My new requirements for charger:
-Onboard, automatic, simply plug into the wall and walk away.
-82-84V
- >350W
-Constant current
-Hands-off (no explodey)
-Waterproof! (no fans)
-under 5 lbs
-Cycle Analyst integration

So after looking for a long time I finally broke down and picked up 2 of these bad boys:
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http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-240h/default.htm

2 Fully waterproofed, fully adjustable LED power supplies.

Here's how they're connected electronically (with pass diodes to protect FETs from body diode feedback and more importantly from HV transient well over FET rating)

SCH.JPG
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After an afternoon of hacking a tap to the shunt in my controller I ended up with this:
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Using the CA, I can count-down the charge using the fuel guage. Yes! I've been meaning to do this forever.

There they are mounted to the xtracycle frame:
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So you might be thinking; wtf, what am I supposed to do? Just float charge the bitches? Well so long as you keep the voltage sufficiently low, that's OK. However, I like to charge right up to 4.2VPC when touring sometimes. I didn't really want to F around with a micro and a switch, and I wanted something super simple.

$9 later I had this:
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Image

It's a simple device that allows you to select 6 hour, 3 hours, or 30 minutes. All the little thing does is turn off after that amount of time. A nice safety feature.

The grand total of my 4.5lb 500w, completely waterproofed, onboard charger ~$200. And you can bet it's about 1000x more reliable than anything else you would strap to your bike frame.

I am now off my bike and charging in under 15 seconds, and I can fully charge my 2.5kwh pack in roughly 5-6 hours, in the pouring rain.

Burn your air breathing charger.

These supplies can be had for very cheap. I might even consider kitting these up in standard configurations for n00bs without a clue.
Last edited by grindz145 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby cal3thousand » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:59 pm

Cool!!

I'll just wait for Justin's Satiator :mrgreen:

EDIT: since I can't possibly do what you did.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:01 pm

cal3thousand wrote:Cool!!

I'll just wait for Justin's Satiator :mrgreen:

EDIT: since I can't possibly do what you did.


Dude, the satiator is going to be AWESOME. Is it going to be waterproof though?

EDIT: oh crap it is sealed. Nice!

These meanwells may still be a really nice and cheap onboard option. To equal the power output of the satiator, you would only need 1 $120 LED power supply, which is pretty freaking awesome.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby dbaker » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:05 pm

where did you buy them?
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:12 pm

dbaker wrote:where did you buy them?


I got them from the website powergatellc.com

Those guys have TONS of stuff in stock. Mouser and other electronics suppliers may have more, but they also cost about 40% more too. I recommend looking there first.

What's super-awesome too, is that if you're pack voltage is <~54 volts, you don't even need 2 power supplies, so you don't need to mess with the diode circuit or anything. awesome! The largest HLG model is ~350w.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby dogman dan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:50 am

Those look like da bomb for mounting on the bike. I finally just read the maker fair road trip thread, and got the info on the satiator. It figures, Justin would be on the right track. Everything that sucks about an Ebike is being fixed by him, one by one.

I'm still in the stone age for charging, planning some shorter trip touring on my frankenbike this summer. I'll be carrying two 5 amps chargers, and counting on the drought continuing. So waterproofing is a low priority for me. Two chargers means hopefully one always works.

For those going ? here is the link to the page where Justin talks about his new charger prototype.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49583&start=25

A bit before that, he's showing a new controller too. 8)
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:36 am

Yeah Dogman, in upstate new york, I've had ALOT of times where I just couldn't charge because it was going to rain. I figure my ebike should be as waterproof as my motorcycle. Not impossible really.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby flez1966 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:54 am

water gets *everywhere* if its raining well..

I had so much of it after 2 contrllers getting wet and blowing 3 times, I took the board and dipped it in hot candle wax...

I then took the board and mounted it back in its case and then shut the controller end plates and top with sillicone, it didnt need screws it was well glued together..

/somehow water still found a way into the box, and 4 months later after 5 days of rain, pop.... it had somehow found a way in, and no where to get out, filled up the controller case like a jug, until it submersed the board, the wax on the board had cracked over time, and it got to the tracks,,,,

I have now replaced the top with a loos fitting bit of wood and not bother to seal it but have mounted it upside down so the pcb is uppermost, water may spash against it and get in a little, but has its not sealed it can get back out...

let me know what methods you try to win the battle!
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby dogman dan » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:00 am

Water from the sky, yes please. 3 of 5 of my favorite places in NM to camp in the forest are actually on fire at this moment. The fourth and fifth burned in huge fires last year. We had 5 inches of rain last year. Since Jan 1, my rain gauge at the house has measured less than half an inch.

I really pity your problem keeping a bike dry. :roll: Wish you could send us some.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:56 am

As far as waterproofing the controller is concerned, I haven't had too much trouble. I silicone around all the wires and I use a TON of conformal coating on the board itself. this is the key. don't bother with candle wax, it's a mess and it's not half as good as conformal coating.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby heathyoung » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:22 am

Nice find on the source, wonder if they would ship overseas... Meanwell HLG-320

I like this version - ("B" Suffix: IP67 rated. Constant current level adjustable through output cable with 1~10Vdc or PWM signal or resistance) - Easy to interface with the BMS!

They are bloody expensive here in Aus (240H is $200, 320H is $250, best price I found so far)
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby NeilP » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:49 am

Can those meanwells be tweaked to 50 volts?
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:42 am

NeilP wrote:Can those meanwells be tweaked to 50 volts?


There is a 52v variant so yeah.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby michaelkramer11 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:40 pm

grindz145 wrote:
cal3thousand wrote:Cool!!

I'll just wait for Justin's Satiator :mrgreen:

EDIT: since I can't possibly do what you did.


Dude, the satiator is going to be AWESOME. Is it going to be waterproof though?

EDIT: oh crap it is sealed. Nice!

These meanwells may still be a really nice and cheap onboard option. To equal the power output of the satiator, you would only need 1 $120 LED power supply, which is pretty freaking awesome.



To adjust the current/voltage on these, do you just use the buttons on the case? How precisely can you adjust the voltage and current?

I've been considering these, just haven't pulled the trigger. I need to charge 8s lipo to about 4.1v per cell, so 32.8v total. The HLG-320H-30 has a voltage adjust range from 26v
to 32v and over voltage protection from 33 to 37v. Would you think there'd be any chance of setting this output to 32.8v without issue? If not I guess I could always step up to the next higher voltage version with a little less current ability.


Thanks for any help.

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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby teslanv » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:37 pm

Seriously thinking about these for my 12S LiPo. the 54A version can adjust from 49V to 58V so anywhere from 12S to 14S is usable.

At 320Watts, I'm almost double the charging capacity of my iCharger 106B (charging @ 168W max into my 4S Hardcase packs.)
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:09 pm

It's been working great for me for over a year. In fact, I just crashed into a bus with them on, and they still work great! :D Didn't even have to recalibrate the voltage.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby Taiden » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:14 pm

Hey, I'm building up my battery and charging solution for a 36v or 48v commuter. I've purchased enough LiFePo4 cells to build essentially a 36v19ah or 48v14ah pack. Any reason I can't just grab one of those 36v or 48v LED power supplies and just use that as my charger? I have to buy one anyway, and it looks like they are only $10-$20 more than a LiFePo4 specific charger.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby heathyoung » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:20 pm

No reason at all why not - I'm using 4 (36V units) in series to change a Vectrix through a BMS and they work fine.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby Alan B » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:38 pm

These are excellent charging supplies. I've been using three of the 24V 320watt models to charge my Borg at work. Over 12 amps at 18S. :shock:

Here's the thread on my setup from 2012. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42169

Still running well.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby Taiden » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:43 pm

What BMSs are you guys running this through? I think I'll grab one, seems like a no brainer. I want something I can leave attached to the bike at all times.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby jkbrigman » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:06 am

+1 to the Meanwell LED supplies. I used Alan B's thread to see how they work and how to use them. I have two HLG-320H-48C supplies. Testing them has gone far better than I expected. Even though they are "only" 320 watts each, it's an honest 320 watts even at the high-current start of charge. HUGE improvement in charging for the ebike - cutting charge time in half. Should make the bike much more practical for everyday use!
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby midwest mayhem » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:23 pm

Would I be able to charge a 96v LiFePO4 pack with 2 of the Meanwell's that can adjust to 57 volts? In other words, would 114 volts be enough to charge a 96 volt pack? Sounds kind of dumb when I type it out, as I thought all you needed was a higher voltage than the battery pack, but I've only used single-purpose 3 phase chargers before. I can't seem to find the specs I want on what charging voltage is required per 3.2v cell (I have 30). I will be charging through a Zephyr BMS.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby riba2233 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:47 pm

How do you purchase this one if you are from Europe? I had some silly quotes from local dealers.
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby cal3thousand » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:01 pm

riba2233 wrote:How do you purchase this one if you are from Europe? I had some silly quotes from local dealers.


I have a 48V version I'm selling. check the marketplace here. I'd be willing to ship to Croatia.

Back OT:

grindz145 wrote:And you can bet it's about 1000x more reliable than anything else you would strap to your bike frame.


Now that the Cycle Satiator is ready for production, you might have to change the tune of this 'bet'. :D

Having said that, for flexibility and some savings, these Meanwell LED drivers are still a very good solution. I would never run a 'regular' meanwell PSU after playing with the LED supplies. For a DIY guy that needs higher voltage and on-the-go charging, this is the ticket at just over $200. For the less-than-DIY guy, $300 Satiator will take care of most of their charger needs.

If you need lower voltage, these things become even more attractive since a single 54V unit can serve up most 48V packs. At least for the non-LiFePO4 guys
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Re: The ultimate onboard charging solution

Postby grindz145 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:18 pm

I can't wait for the satiator. Absolutely. That's a real charger and I certainly trust the reliability.
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