A123 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

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arkmundi   1 GW

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A123 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Aug 24 2013 1:35pm

Note that while previously "Out of Stock" these are now available, for the first time, factory direct:
http://www.buya123batteries.com/AMP20M1HD_A_Lithium_Ion_Prismatic_Pouch_p/amp20m1hd-a.htm
BuyNow!.png
A123 AMP20 cells, new, legit, factory direct!
BuyNow!.png (119.88 KiB) Viewed 5720 times
[/url][/b]
If anyone doesn't need a whole carton of 20, I'll take the surplus off your hands - 12S = 36V, 16S = 48V, so 4 or 8 cells to me. You can ship them USPS Ground OK! US only, no over-seas. :mrgreen:

Update: thread covers A123 cells from Erik at EVDM via buya123batteries.com, whether the AMP20 format or 26650 or 18650 formats. Note that the AMP20 cells are sent directly from the factory. There are also 'A' grade and 'B' grade cells of each format, and occasional specials and close-outs offers.
Last edited by arkmundi on Apr 24 2014 5:52am, edited 4 times in total.

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bowlofsalad   1 MW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by bowlofsalad » Aug 24 2013 2:03pm

Thanks for sharing. These cells come out to be 70 dollars a piece (without shipping).

Buying a bunch of these doesn't sound bad.
Last edited by bowlofsalad on Aug 24 2013 4:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Aug 24 2013 2:07pm

bowlofsalad wrote:Thanks for sharing....
Not sure what you meant to say there. I'd buy the surplus cells at full price and throw in for equivalent share of shipping. So if you really want a 12S pack, I'd buy them for 8 * $70 = $560 plus 8/20 * shipping costs. Since these cells are expensive, I'm assuming anyone purchasing would want to limit their costs to just what they need, making such an offer most attractive. Buyer would pay, receive and sell the surplus directly to me. :mrgreen:
Last edited by arkmundi on Sep 21 2013 11:20am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by agniusm » Aug 24 2013 2:12pm

That was harsh towards someone offering fair solution.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 24 2013 2:36pm

Ark I don't understand what we have a fire thrower aim your way. But E.S. goes that way.
I still like the A123 20ah format a little heavy for 24s on a bike but they do fit well as 12s and 16s. Plus with new cells 16s 20ah of lifepo4 A123 is a perfect pack for a bike.
20 ah and fits in a lot of different triangles with kit's for builds and a number of bms's and charging opion's. Prolem is it's taking a long time to find out how long mine are going to last. Years I hope. I check cycles and report back.
Last edited by 999zip999 on Aug 24 2013 2:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bowlofsalad   1 MW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by bowlofsalad » Aug 24 2013 2:38pm

The statement 'I'll take the surplus off your hands' is vague, I took it to mean take for free. The "frock middlemen' comment is far from harsh though. Do you like paying several times more for something than what it's worth? I sure as hell don't. Rip the leaches off.

By thanks for sharing, I meant, thank you for sharing this valuable information.

There is no flamethrower, just a mild misunderstanding, no big deal, these things happen. The word TAKE is very different than the word BUY.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by deVries » Aug 24 2013 2:49pm

Bottom Line: $70 per cell plus shipping is still too expensive. Also, these need to be verified manufactured in 2013. A123 may have a large surplus of 2012 cells, which I would never buy near that price.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Aug 24 2013 2:54pm

deVries wrote:Bottom Line: $70 per cell plus shipping is still too expensive. Also, these need to be verified manufactured in 2013. A123 may have a large surplus of 2012 cells, which I would never buy near that price.
Since they've been out of stock and only recently came on board with them, I believe its a safe assumption that these are new A-grade cells fresh off the factory line. I certainly don't know of a better way to source these. Everyone has to assess their options, costs & risks. I have. :mrgreen:
Last edited by arkmundi on Aug 24 2013 7:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Aug 24 2013 3:06pm

bowlofsalad wrote:The statement 'I'll take the surplus off your hands' is vague...
Yes, purposely so, since a "fair trade" can mean anything from I pay your costs in cash to a barter, like my building you your battery pack since I've got time and you may not, plus the know-how. What ever happened to honest negotiations? :mrgreen:
Last edited by arkmundi on Aug 24 2013 7:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by docnjoj » Aug 24 2013 4:24pm

It would be good to get a means of "cracking" the code on the printed stuff so we too could determine when these cells were made. I do believe my cells with the "B" in the serial number from China were b-grade, but they only cost 25 bucks apiece delivered and are still working fine. This is a whole different ball game at $70 plus shipping.
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E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Aug 24 2013 6:15pm

docnjoj wrote:It would be good to get a means of "cracking" the code on the printed stuff so we too could determine when these cells were made...
++1, yea, wb9k?? :?: Also just speculation whether these are A-grade factory firsts or B-grade factory seconds. Also what is the possible wholesale cost of these cells?

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by wb9k » Aug 24 2013 6:51pm

Well, it's looking more and more like these guys are going to be the source for all A123 cells for the time being. Here's what I see: The cells are drop-shipped from Livonia. This is as real as it's ever gonna get as far as the source goes. Livonia is the factory. They appear to be promising a minimum capacity of 19.5 Ah, so that would make these A-grade cells. I haven't read the site's terms of sale, but I would verify if there is any kind of warranty on them. I would also say there is a strong possibility many or all of these cells were made in 2012, but there is no reason to fear that. These cells should have been re-sorted and inspected for the problems that afflicted some cells in the past. What warranty is being offered?
At these prices, minimum capacity and max impedance should be guaranteed.
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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by ejonesss » Aug 25 2013 3:15am

correct me if i am wrong but it looks like it is free shipping

bowlofsalad wrote:Thanks for sharing. These cells come out to be 70 dollars a piece (without shipping).

Buying a bunch of these doesn't sound bad.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
32 lifepo4 cells 16s2p 40138 green cells √
16s2p 40138 based pack built assembled (building electrical equiv to $2000 eonyx system.*

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by docnjoj » Aug 25 2013 7:18am

Some orders are shipped free. It says an order over $1000 are also shipped free.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by davec » Aug 25 2013 8:46am

this is a good news
is anyone going to make the plunge and do a test/review?

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by miro13car » Sep 21 2013 10:56am

just noticed your thread Arkmundi,
did you noticed how impaccable they look on close up picture?
No slightless dents, ridges , no tinest indent.
The question is would I get such ideal looking cells like on the pictures??
What a hudge difference to my Victpower bought cells.
It gives me idea how much mechanical/handling abuse they were subjected to /in USA and China/ before actual shipping to customer from Victpower.
Now I belive they were diverted from recycling.
But my Victpower cells work just fine in ebike application.
In my less than 40Amps application, the most I draw is 38A, very, very easy service for A123 20 Ah pouch.
Automotive application , even scooter is another story.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Sep 21 2013 11:31am

miro13car wrote:just noticed your thread Arkmundi,
did you noticed how impaccable they look on close up picture?
No slightless dents, ridges , no tinest indent.
The question is would I get such ideal looking cells like on the pictures??
Yes, these are A123 sanctioned sales, new A-grade.
What a hudge difference to my Victpower bought cells.
It gives me idea how much mechanical/handling abuse they were subjected to /in USA and China/ before actual shipping to customer from Victpower.
Now I belive they were diverted from recycling.
But my Victpower cells work just fine in ebike application.
In my less than 40Amps application, the most I draw is 38A, very, very easy service for A123 20 Ah pouch.
Automotive application , even scooter is another story.
There were many of us here in ES that sourced these cells through Victpower and made out OK. Yea, most likely that there were shenanigans involved, but I don't care. I'm happy with my pack - its working great for me. And I want to keep it that way.

Hence my need to source additional cells to replenish my stash. I revised my offer in the post to anyone in the US. That's a result of having proved its OK to ship cells via USPS ground.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by miro13car » Sep 21 2013 7:24pm

I hope your purchase will go through.
I am really interested how these cells would perform and look in comparison to Victpower.

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Nov 18 2013 1:39pm

My letter to buya123batteries <erik@evdmcorp.com>
I'm the guy over at http://endless-sphere.com forum that started the A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct! thread. That's because I have an ebike with a battery built with these cells. And conduct ebike workshops in my community where I continue to advocate the A123 nanophosphate advantage.

The problem is that requirement for a carton of 20 cells at $1400. I'd really, really like you to reconsider that. Most ebike owners would like the very best battery available, and since buya123batteries is the only legit way to acquire new, up-to-spec cells, you really must reconsider.

If I were to buy ANR26650 or APR18650M1A cells from you, I could buy 1 or any quantity I need and with a pricing scheme that discounts for volume. You really must do the same for the AMP20 cells!

My battery, for instance, is a 12S1P nominal 36V battery, requiring just 12 cells. To replace it, I'd rather spend 12 x $70 or $870 and not be forced into the purchase of excess cells. Most ebike owners are in exactly the same circumstance. You could, for instance, ask for $72 a cell for <20 and scale from there.

Now I see on your site that you started with 50 cartons and are down to just 46 from the time of my original ES forum post on Aug 24, 2013. So you're not selling them. You would if you allowed people to buy any quantity that they need.

I'll rest my case. Its a win-win for customer & seller. Please! Thanks.
UPDATE: Well, that was a fast reply. And I called in and spoke with Eric. Its just not going to happen, ever. Its the factory that has set the 20 cell carton limit and these cartons ship from the factory, not from buya123batteries. Whereas the 26650 and 18650's are in stock with them, they package & ship. It gets back to the whole issue of shipping li-ion with the common carriers, complicated by federal & international regs.

This has forced to me to reconsider my whole long-term strategy to staying in the juice. This and the A123 20Ah Pressure Thoughts thread, since the AMP20's require some compression methodolgy in the make, whereas the cylindricals are natively already in proper compression. I had not wanted to reconsider strategy, since I had invested in all the paraphanellia for my 12S 36V AMP20 pack and didn't want to start from scratch. But what with the continuing problematic nature of sourcing the AMP20's, I guess its time.
Last edited by arkmundi on Nov 18 2013 8:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by Punx0r » Nov 18 2013 6:47pm

It seems like an opportunity for a entrepreneurial reseller located inside the U.S....

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arkmundi   1 GW

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Nov 18 2013 8:54pm

Punx0r wrote:It seems like an opportunity for a entrepreneurial reseller located inside the U.S....
How do you see that working?

FYI, I posted my approach over in my saga thread: A new replacement battery for the new year

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by RedLine19K » Nov 19 2013 1:01am

If the demand for these $1/Wh batteries was that strong, BuyA123 could split their own cases and offer singles at $80. Whether the sales agreement allows it, shipping is feasible and people would actually pay it is the unknown. One Spark EV module is more than they'd sell in a year, so it may not be worth A123s trouble..nothing's changed.

Whatever happened with Sybesmas modules becoming available?

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Nov 19 2013 1:47am

RedLine19K wrote:If the demand for these $1/Wh batteries was that strong, BuyA123 could split their own cases and offer singles at $80. Whether the sales agreement allows it, shipping is feasible and people would actually pay it is the unknown. One Spark EV module is more than they'd sell in a year, so it may not be worth A123s trouble..nothing's changed.
Not possible, I spoke with Erik. He buys cases & cases of the 26650 and 18650 cells and sells them in whatever quantity you want, with discounted pricing for volume. He packs them & ships them UPS as a certified shipper for lithium with all the proper packaging and labeling. The decision about the AMP20's, however, is not his, but the factory's. Its the factory that packs & ships them, so its a pass-thru of the order. He wishes he could do the same for the prismatics, but so far the factory has not budged.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by RedLine19K » Nov 19 2013 2:21am

Erik is willing to do all the extra work and they still won't even let him touch the cells? I guess you explained that before but I had trouble understanding because it MAKES NO SENSE. So A123 doesn't want to sell them or develop new markets. Nothing's ... nm.

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Re: A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!

Post by arkmundi » Nov 19 2013 2:31am

It definitely does not make any sense from our perspective. Even Erik disagrees with the policy. But it must make some sense to the higher ups at the factory, to control their inventory. Erik said the factory works with pallets, so 10's of thousands of cells at a time. Handling a carton of 20 is something they do as a courtesy, mostly to electric car manufacturers, so they can start to work with the cells. They have no interest in the LEV market or serving our needs.

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