Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
deVries   1 MW

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Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 11:40am

wb9k wrote:You might be interested in some of the Hymotion modules that Hank Sybesma has and will be making available very soon, along with test results for each module they sell. Hey deVries, why don't you start a new thread showing off the ones you got?
I promise I will very soon. :)

EDIT: And, now, here is that thread topic...

And, btw, these are VERY HIGH QUALITY modules that can be configured easily in 26v "chunks" to get 52v, 78v, etc. all in 8s11p 26650 pre-built size starting with 26v. (Even the 26v module can be divided by 2 to make a 12v+ battery.)

The size of the very well constructed 8s11p 26v module is about 12" x 5.5" x 6"H. I'm very impressed with the quality of these modules. To get the 8s11p module you can see below it is actually 2x4s11p that is bonded together. See those two centered horizontal plates in pic bonded together, see below...
8s11p Hymotion Module Small.jpg
8s11p Hymotion Module Small.jpg (236.33 KiB) Viewed 3793 times
More to come very soon...

Here are some excellent points that WB9K makes about the quality of these modules:
wb9k wrote:These cells were definitely A grade under the old 26650 spec, and buyers will have test results for every battery to prove what their performance is today, so there's no sorting for duds. The build quality and level of inherent safety frankly puts even the best stuff I've seen on ES to shame. Every cell is fused in these modules, every cell group is fused, and the entire modules are also fused--all of that is built right into the weld straps. To me, this and the test results for every battery add significant value.
I agree! :D
Last edited by deVries on Sep 15 2013 11:45am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 11:41am

Here is the PDF technical guide written by an A123 expert that also works for A123 too...

Guide to A123 Hymotion Battery Modules

(Only the battery-module cells are an A123 product.)

.
Attachments
Guide to A123 Hymotion Battery Modules.pdf
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Last edited by deVries on Sep 15 2013 11:11am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 11:41am

Reserved for future info.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 11:42am

Reserved for future info.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by cwah » Sep 14 2013 12:39pm

Somehow it does look chunky for ebike?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 12:41pm

cwah wrote:Somehow it does look chunky for ebike?
I am thinking saddlebags in the back or a cargo bike or trike if you don't want to take them apart.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by wb9k » Sep 14 2013 1:02pm

On Monday, I'll take some pics of the couple I have in various configs from various angles and give some construction details. I may get a chance sooner, but not sure.
dh
2013 Chevy Volt
2009 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2008 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM (passed on to daughter)
2011 Rose Xing Fu 48V 500 Watt commuter scooter (now departed)
1984 Honda Interceptor 48V electric conversion motorcycle
Under construction: 2008 Miles ZX40ST truck with altered DC drivetrain
Departed: 2002 VW Jetta TDI which was run for a time partly on WVO.
Amateur radio station run entirely on solar/battery power.
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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 1:13pm

cwah wrote:Somehow it does look chunky for ebike?
The size of the very well constructed 8s11p 26v module is about 12" x 5.5" x 6"H

The above dimensions will give you the best idea. These modules are automotive professional grade highest quality construction. This is waayyy beyond any hobby build or Ping-chinese batt type construction, much higher quality in every respect, but you'll need to insert the modules into some type of protective case-enclosure too. There are even bolt holes provided to securely mount these modules inside your enclosure or designed mount points.

I'll weigh the modules soon and provide the weight too.

I would definitely choose these IF you have the space available for mounting.

Front triangle and rear rack using two modules should work if you've got the space available.

Two saddle bags on each side of rear wheel should work using two modules.

Great for trailer mount. Motorcycle builds and small 3 wheel vehicle "golf cart size" applications should work.

Fit and size are the main issues to resolve for your application.

If you're looking for a micro-sized very low weight solution, then these modules are not ideal for that application.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by cwah » Sep 14 2013 1:24pm

It doesn't have to be micro-sized. But it's a scooter or car module rather than an ebike module.

Bike battery should weight around 5kg max for optimal handling. I'm currently having my 12kg A123 20AH on my brompton and it's definitely too heavy.

Even if it fits, it's more for a cargo bike than any standard ebike.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 1:32pm

cwah wrote:It doesn't have to be micro-sized. But it's a scooter or car module rather than an ebike module.

Bike battery should weight around 5kg max for optimal handling. I'm currently having my 12kg A123 20AH on my brompton and it's definitely too heavy.

Even if it fits, it's more for a cargo bike than any standard ebike.
You could mount it low in the triangle. They make wide crank kits.

ecargo bikes and etrikes rule anyway. :) Lightweight bikes geared right don't need a motor ?

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by arkmundi » Sep 14 2013 1:36pm

Thanks for the post of useful information on these modules. So, these would come directly from Sybesma's? Any cost figures available yet? Are these new, older cells, more or less unused? Or are they recycled packs?

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 1:40pm

cwah wrote:Bike battery should weight around 5kg max for optimal handling. I'm currently having my 12kg A123 20AH on my brompton and it's definitely too heavy.
Yeah, your Brompton is a very small bike. No way you could consider using 2 of these modules unless you could use 26v and one module.

Also, if weight and size are critical for a high-performance bicycle application, then, most likely, you would choose a lower Ah battery to reduce size and limit range.

If you need 20Ah to 25Ah from 26v to 52v (or more), then you should seriously consider these modules IF the fit and weight work for you too.

These would be great for a canoe or boat application too! 8)

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 1:53pm

arkmundi wrote:Thanks for the post of useful information on these modules. So, these would come directly from Sybesma's? Any cost figures available yet? Are these new, older cells, more or less unused? Or are they recycled packs?
wb9k wrote: These cells were definitely A grade under the old 26650 spec, and buyers will have test results for every battery to prove what their performance is today, so there's no sorting for duds. The build quality and level of inherent safety frankly puts even the best stuff I've seen on ES to shame. Every cell is fused in these modules, every cell group is fused, and the entire modules are also fused--all of that is built right into the weld straps. To me, this and the test results for every battery add significant value.
Price will be appropriate for these high quality modules, but also discounted somewhat depending on actual test results for each module. You will get the test results for each module you buy. These are A-Grade but come from unsold stock that was warehoused. Now, these will be liquidated based on the test results, so some will cost more with higher capacity while others cost less with lower capacity.

Sales price and arrangements are not finalized, so just be patient for the next several weeks. These modules are not going anywhere in the meantime. Maybe sometime in October these will be on sale. Today is September 14th. :)
etriker wrote:ecargo bikes and etrikes rule anyway.
These modules would be great for these applications too. 8)

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by wb9k » Sep 14 2013 2:33pm

Some of you can probably guess what has happened here.

I read about deVries fiasco with the attempted buy of (probably stolen) 20Ah cells from a seller who I will not name here. It annoys me to no end that A123's reputation has been so sullied by unauthorized sellers of material that I know full well was stolen, but I digress.

I happen to know a guy here in the US with a significant cache of 26650's in all sorts of configurations and the full range of state of health that he would like to sell. For motive applications, the Hymotion inventory is probably the most attractive portion of the material available. I felt these modules are perfect for the 2-trike project for Rachel and her husband and saw the opportunity to get some modules out there for the group to see and a test regimen for Hank to use for documenting the performance of every battery he has.

We're still sorting pricing out. I thought deVries had me talked down further than I expected to go, but I just took some photos and these are pretty tasty little modules. The top and bottom halves can be separated, so that helps configurabilitly somewhat. They are indeed on the heavy side, but they are very rugged. Bolt them down in a watertight enclosure, add the control system of your choice, and you're on your way. I'll let you guys decide what uses will be appropriate for yourselves, but these are a natural for trikes and cargo bikes IMO.

Some of the inventory is unused stock, some is used, but all is still usable. I'll get a description of the module together tomorrow and post if I can.

deVries, if you have time, maybe take a pic of the two modules snugged up next to each other to show how they interlock?

Gotta go. Going to the ballgame with Mrs dh, who really needs a night off from reality as usual. Go Tigers!
dh
2013 Chevy Volt
2009 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2008 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM (passed on to daughter)
2011 Rose Xing Fu 48V 500 Watt commuter scooter (now departed)
1984 Honda Interceptor 48V electric conversion motorcycle
Under construction: 2008 Miles ZX40ST truck with altered DC drivetrain
Departed: 2002 VW Jetta TDI which was run for a time partly on WVO.
Amateur radio station run entirely on solar/battery power.
"You can tell I'm a troublemaker, because I plug in my car."

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 2:37pm

Yeah and I took your word for that stolen crap and got banned for 30 days for repeating it.

What proof do you have they were stolen ?
Last edited by etriker on Sep 14 2013 6:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by mistercrash » Sep 14 2013 2:51pm

deVries wrote:The size of the very well constructed 8s11p 26v module is about 12" x 5.5" x 6"H.
8s11p Hymotion Module Small.jpg
Is that the dimension of an 8S11P module? Which as the pick shows is two 4S11P stuck together, Or the dimensions of one 4S11P module? Because the pic I see doesn't looks like 12 inches by 5.5 inches. Knowing the exact size of the 8S11P module is important to me because the battery box of my electric moped has a funky shape and I want to be certain that three 8S11P modules would fit.

Thanks
Ray
Send $10 at paypal.me/Ray1964 and you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by arkmundi » Sep 14 2013 2:54pm

wb9k wrote:I happen to know a guy here in the US with a significant cache of 26650's in all sorts of configurations and the full range of state of health that he would like to sell. For motive applications, the Hymotion inventory is probably the most attractive portion of the material available...
Hey thanks for general awesomeness, of product & service. And I'll lay on a general apology for the mix up here in ESland, from the genuinely frustrated and sometimes too angry ranting, as will happen. Best!

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 3:03pm

arkmundi wrote:
wb9k wrote:I happen to know a guy here in the US with a significant cache of 26650's in all sorts of configurations and the full range of state of health that he would like to sell. For motive applications, the Hymotion inventory is probably the most attractive portion of the material available...
Hey thanks for general awesomeness, of product & service. And I'll lay on a general apology for the mix up here in ESland, from the genuinely frustrated and sometimes too angry ranting, as will happen. Best!
A newbee making claims about batteries being stolen that he won't back up ?

Yeah, kinda makes me angry.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 3:09pm

etriker wrote:Yeah and I took your word for that stolen crap and got banned for 30 days for repeating it.

What proof do you have they were stolen ?
Well, since someone else has let this cat out of the bag, I "overheard" [unnamed A123 source] the defective cells and modules were sold to a recycle contractor under specific contract to ONLY RECYCLE these 2012 cells and modules that were located in the USA. Apparently, the Recycle Contractor violated their legal agreement with A123 by jumping on "the sly" opportunity to extract a lot more financial gain by selling these cells/modules outside the USA. Sooo, the recycle contractor sold the modules and cells into China in violation of their contract with A123 to ONLY recycle these by means of destructive recycling.

That scenario seems very plausible to me considering A123's impending bankruptcy at that time. I believe it, but I certainly have no proof to offer about it other than the information came from an unnamed A123 source.

Of course, if the Mods think my repetition of this personal knowledge I gained from an actual A123 employee should be removed, then I'm happy to do so.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by arkmundi » Sep 14 2013 3:10pm

etriker wrote:
arkmundi wrote:He keeps making claims about batteries being stolen that he won't back up...
wb9k works in the warranty division of A123 and has many professional contacts in the industry. His knowledge of the AMP20 cells, extensive posting of technical information, and willingness to work with the community is very much appreciated by many of us here possessing these cells and using them in our ebike applications. Too much targeting can drive anyone away, and it would be OUR loss, so again.... please... tone it down.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 3:12pm

unnamed hearsay.

We don't need anymore unnamed hearsay about stolen batteries.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 3:13pm

arkmundi wrote:
etriker wrote:
arkmundi wrote:He keeps making claims about batteries being stolen that he won't back up...
wb9k works in the warranty division of A123 and has many professional contacts in the industry. His knowledge of the AMP20 cells, extensive posting of technical information, and willingness to work with the community is very much appreciated by many of us here possessing these cells and using them in our ebike applications. Too much targeting can drive anyone away, and it would be OUR loss, so again.... please... tone it down.
I think he will either show proof or quit saying it.

That is what we should expect ?

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by arkmundi » Sep 14 2013 3:24pm

etriker wrote:I think he will either show proof or quit saying it. That is what we should expect ?
No, all we should expect is speculation, rumor, innuendo and uncertainty about historical events gone bad. About the Hymotion modules (the topic of this tread), wb9k, Sybesma's, deVries have promised more extensive test data and is the only "proof" that is relevant. As always, its "buyer beware." Based on the information posted, you can choose to buy or not. But to lambast respected individuals so as to undermine their well appreciated efforts to make something useful to the community happen, is rather intolerable. Thanks for your understanding.

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by deVries » Sep 14 2013 3:33pm

mistercrash wrote:
deVries wrote:The size of the very well constructed 8s11p 26v module is about 12" x 5.5" x 6"H.
8s11p Hymotion Module Small.jpg
Is that the dimension of an 8S11P module?
Yes, exactly!
Because the pic I see doesn't looks like 12 inches by 5.5 inches.
That actually is the top view of the 8s11p module, and those are the dimensions too within about an 1/8" or so. I just used a measuring tape to eyeball it fairly accurately.

Is that accurate enough for you?

Thanks for your interest. :D

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Re: Coming Soon A123 Hymotion Modules for ES and ALL

Post by etriker » Sep 14 2013 4:07pm

arkmundi wrote:
etriker wrote:I think he will either show proof or quit saying it. That is what we should expect ?
No, all we should expect is speculation, rumor, innuendo and uncertainty about historical events gone bad. About the Hymotion modules (the topic of this tread), wb9k, Sybesma's, deVries have promised more extensive test data and is the only "proof" that is relevant. As always, its "buyer beware." Based on the information posted, you can choose to buy or not. But to lambast respected individuals so as to undermine their well appreciated efforts to make something useful to the community happen, is rather intolerable. Thanks for your understanding.
I know. I hope he stops saying it too. If it is true then many well respected members are riding with stolen cells and if true I want proof or those saying it need to shut up.
Last edited by etriker on Sep 14 2013 6:19pm, edited 1 time in total.

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