Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Warren » Jan 29 2019 12:58pm

New battery breakthroughs are as much about microscopic structures, as chemistry.

https://newatlas.com/metallic-wood-nick ... ium/58234/

https://www.titech.ac.jp/english/news/2018/043008.html

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Warren » Feb 04 2019 10:34am

Tesla buys Maxwell...possibly for dry electrode coating tech.

http://www.powersourcesconference.com/P ... cs/3-1.pdf

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by hardym » Feb 04 2019 2:11pm

New Dual Carbon battery, press release from Power Japan Plus
https://www.iflscience.com/technology/ ... thium-ion/

No real specs yet. Here is a wikipedia explination:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_carbon_battery

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by SlowCo » Feb 04 2019 4:31pm

hardym wrote:
Feb 04 2019 2:11pm
New Dual Carbon battery, press release from Power Japan Plus
https://www.iflscience.com/technology/ ... thium-ion/

No real specs yet. Here is a wikipedia explination:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_carbon_battery
Look at the time stamp for that video: may 2014...
And googling the company doesn't produce a promising result.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Honk » Feb 11 2019 6:22am

As usual 99.9% of all breakthrough announcements is just BS.
Most of them are broadcast to raise investment funds and will not leed to any new and interesting batteries, at least not for the common bloke.
Efficiency is king!

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by alexdean » Feb 18 2019 1:53am

The recent discovery on this topic:
Honda Research Institute and University Researchers Develop Breakthrough Battery Chemistry
New co-authored paper demonstrates potential ten-fold energy density increase over existing lithium-ion battery technologies

More:https://hondanews.com/releases/honda-re ... -chemistry

Alex from BOC Sciences ()
Last edited by mark5 on Feb 18 2019 2:28am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Delete irrelevant link

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Honk   100 W

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Honk » Feb 18 2019 3:47pm

The saga repeats itself over and over.
If just one of all theese chemistries being broadcast as revolutionary actually made it to the market we would not have this forum thread.
Don't get me wrong. I love new breakthrough technology but not when it comes to vapor batteries.
Regular lithium 18650's is more than good enough.
Efficiency is king!

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Mikegy » Mar 24 2019 3:15am

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 105701.htm
Once again which chemistry or combination of chemistry and licenses will prove to be economically feasible to produce in large commercial quantities down the line.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Philaphlous » Apr 04 2019 6:53am

Not sure this has been posted yet or not.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2 ... ithium-ion

I find it particularly challenging deciding if I want to end up buying a year old model 3 or not. That's kind of my "master plan" right now to replace my car. But a used model 3 thats depreciated enough to be more affordable for me rather than buying brand new...but if Tesla is able to pull off maybe a 10-20% jump in wh/kg it's really going to drop the value of current and older Teslas like none other... I find it interesting with the ev market and once a production ready battery that has better capacity characteristics, it's really going to flip the market..especially the used market.

Im kinda guessing that when Tesla starts releasing the roadster that they'll announce a massive energy density increase. Model 3 is probably going to jump to a 400mi long range version and 300-325mi standard...just a matter of time.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by bearing » Apr 08 2019 7:25am

Philaphlous wrote:
Apr 04 2019 6:53am
Not sure this has been posted yet or not.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2 ... ithium-ion
They are making one of the highest claims to date. 1000Wh/kg and 50000 cycles at 100% DOD.
https://innolith.com/

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Mikegy » Apr 17 2019 9:25am

https://phys-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s ... eries.html
This if stable in real world range of temps. uses materials already in use. The stabilizing material is cheap and easy to produce in bulk.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by protoham » Apr 24 2019 3:01pm

Here is a suggestion to Battery Manufactures. Instead of depending on welding tab onto the batteries provide Screw threads so we can just bolt them together. The DIY guys would go crazy for something like this.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by e-beach » Apr 24 2019 3:44pm

protoham wrote:
Apr 24 2019 3:01pm
Here is a suggestion to Battery Manufactures. Instead of depending on welding tab onto the batteries provide Screw threads so we can just bolt them together. The DIY guys would go crazy for something like this.
Plenty of LTO and LiePO4 cells have screw fittings.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by zzoing » Apr 25 2019 1:31am

Oh cool, Innolith is very fantastic. When a company devides prices by 20 while multiplying performance by 4, but doesn't have any commercial partners, tech demo's, patents, videos, photos, presentations, products, statistics, chemistries... you know they are lying to rich western and asian investors who believe in the easter bunny. The word "hundreds of millions" appears on their technology resumé... That's because they valued themselves at 1 billion under the name "Alevo GridBank" in 2014 and then they went bankrupt in 2017 and were liquidated, and their manager and technology moved to inno3D who suddenly achieved 50 times more recharges and 4 times more power density than the academics have come up with.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by zzoing » Apr 26 2019 5:59am

Perhaps there can be a new thread called "fake battery company list" ... Especially for completely unkown companies, so that we can find out the director's previous history... And for any company that doesn't have a video to back up their claims whilst searching for investors. If i had a world changing battery chemistry and I wanted to get investment, I would video a small battery charging and discharging 100 times at 10C with 1W/G.
The Alevo/InnoLith company was marked as "in liquidation" in Switzerland previously, and I don't know why a company would be under administration one year and magically 4 times better than Panasonic the year after, under a different name. crazy!!!

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by bearing » Apr 29 2019 5:25am

They do have patents, and they have been focusing on developing an electrolyte which doesn't produce unwanted and irreversible side reactions. So there is nothing obvious saying that it is a bluff.

Not sure if there is anything backing the claim of 1000Wh/kg. Alevo seems to have been using LiFePO4, which traditionally has about 100Wh/kg. The new electrolyte is sulfur based. LiS has traditionally high energy density but poor cycle life. If they solved the cycle life, it's not unreasonable to end up with high energy density and good cycle life. But it would also be a good scam to claim that they have this technology, since it's not unreasonable.

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Chalmers University, Lithium Sulfur + Graphene Aerogel

Post by JimmyJazz » May 01 2019 8:00pm

Usual caveat contained within:
The team, however, warns that there is a long road to commercialisation still ahead: 'Since these batteries are produced in an alternative way from most normal batteries,' explains Professor Matic, 'new manufacturing processes will need to be developed to make them commercially viable.'
https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/rese ... through/1/

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by billvon » May 01 2019 9:15pm

Oxis is now selling a lithium sulfur battery. It's got almost 2x the energy density (wh/kg) than lithium ion - but everything else about it is worse. Lower volumetric energy density (i.e. it's light but bulky.) It only works 0-30C and it lasts ~200 cycles. It's also low voltage - about 2.1 volts per cell.

However, just the fact that they are producing it is getting the automotive manufacturers excited. BMW gave a very upbeat talk about lithium sulfur at the IBC a few weeks ago. The thinking is that once it's a product people are buying, incremental improvements will come rapidly.

https://45uevg34gwlltnbsf2plyua1-wpengi ... -v4.08.pdf
--bill von

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2019 1:07am

Everything on this page (except the dual-carbon battery repost from 2014) is a huge step in the right direction towards the next big step function jump in cell energy density. I'm excited for all of them.

I remember the days when it was 95% scammers 5% useful tech development, and today so many technologies are showing huge progress (at least at lab RnD coin cell scale testing).
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by argo » May 04 2019 5:33pm

Aluminium-Air Flow (primary) battery - Fundamentally an old science but with a new twist:
www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10 ... 101118.php
http://sustainableskies.org/the-17x-alu ... r-battery/

An Israeli start-up company, Phinergy, have been working on commercialising the tech for a number of years.

Seems like the current draw may be limited, as a number of articles talk about a 'hybrid' battery...li-ion for vehicle acceleration/Al-air for cruise. But 2.5 kWh/kg - finally a battery that would make my electric hang glider more feasible :D

Note: These not electrically rechargeable, but are re-energisable. Given cyclists/e-enthusiasts generally recharge at home, not really a problem?

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by zzoing » May 05 2019 7:28am

Aluminium energy sounds cool because it is easy to recycle. I researched Alevo because the Innolith advertisement video is a bit suspicuous and oriented towards people who don't understand technology, the staff and labs don't appear in the innolith video, it's girls skipping in sunny green wheat fields and fake pixelated GUI's flashing : 10000 cycles, 50% and sunlit scenes from the Alps.

Innolith spent 68 million in their previous brand tu build a factory which produced zero final batteries. There is one battery in a shipping crate which is their only result for 68 million. It's photoshopped as well, its a photo of the Alevo shupping crate with a new Innolith logo pasted on top, with 3d perspective effects to make the photo look like a video.

They used a liquid electrolyte which required filtration of some sort to prevent it from degrading over time.

Their 68 million production plant in the USA was sold for 5mn. I wonder if they had the first round of cash from Obama's program.

I chased to find what their golden goose looks like and i found a very marketing based company. If they blew 68 million and have no equipment or staff experiences to share with new investors, i'd say they are chapter 11 all the way.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by markz » May 06 2019 7:09pm

What is on the market now for ebikes, with the
1) The smallest size
2) Yet most capacity (Ah)
3) Reasonable amount of discharge (A) for ebikes
and weight being not that important a factor.


liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2019 1:07am
Everything on this page (except the dual-carbon battery repost from 2014) is a huge step in the right direction towards the next big step function jump in cell energy density. I'm excited for all of them.

I remember the days when it was 95% scammers 5% useful tech development, and today so many technologies are showing huge progress (at least at lab RnD coin cell scale testing).

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by bearing » May 17 2019 7:29am

zzoing wrote:
May 05 2019 7:28am
Aluminium energy sounds cool because it is easy to recycle. I researched Alevo because the Innolith advertisement video is a bit suspicuous and oriented towards people who don't understand technology, the staff and labs don't appear in the innolith video, it's girls skipping in sunny green wheat fields and fake pixelated GUI's flashing : 10000 cycles, 50% and sunlit scenes from the Alps.

Innolith spent 68 million in their previous brand tu build a factory which produced zero final batteries. There is one battery in a shipping crate which is their only result for 68 million. It's photoshopped as well, its a photo of the Alevo shupping crate with a new Innolith logo pasted on top, with 3d perspective effects to make the photo look like a video.

They used a liquid electrolyte which required filtration of some sort to prevent it from degrading over time.

Their 68 million production plant in the USA was sold for 5mn. I wonder if they had the first round of cash from Obama's program.

I chased to find what their golden goose looks like and i found a very marketing based company. If they blew 68 million and have no equipment or staff experiences to share with new investors, i'd say they are chapter 11 all the way.
I have to agree it looks fishy.

There was a suspected scam from a Swiss EV startup company a few years ago. A hydrogen car which was supposed to have supercar performance. Thing is, it was supposed to have a 48V system... so the claims couldn't be true of course. Not possible to get high performance with such low voltage.
They even had Koenigsegg draw the design. Pretty nice looking car, and light too.
Probably good to be a Swiss company if you want to attract investors.

Latest Innolith news:
Innolith Appoints Carrie Lin as China Chief Representative
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/innolith ... 00390.html
Innolith Appoints Stephen Wiley as US Vice President
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ksOcMvjJb-

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by liveforphysics » May 31 2019 6:35pm

bearing wrote:
May 17 2019 7:29am
zzoing wrote:
May 05 2019 7:28am
Aluminium energy sounds cool because it is easy to recycle. I researched Alevo because the Innolith advertisement video is a bit suspicuous and oriented towards people who don't understand technology, the staff and labs don't appear in the innolith video, it's girls skipping in sunny green wheat fields and fake pixelated GUI's flashing : 10000 cycles, 50% and sunlit scenes from the Alps.

Innolith spent 68 million in their previous brand tu build a factory which produced zero final batteries. There is one battery in a shipping crate which is their only result for 68 million. It's photoshopped as well, its a photo of the Alevo shupping crate with a new Innolith logo pasted on top, with 3d perspective effects to make the photo look like a video.

They used a liquid electrolyte which required filtration of some sort to prevent it from degrading over time.

Their 68 million production plant in the USA was sold for 5mn. I wonder if they had the first round of cash from Obama's program.

I chased to find what their golden goose looks like and i found a very marketing based company. If they blew 68 million and have no equipment or staff experiences to share with new investors, i'd say they are chapter 11 all the way.
I have to agree it looks fishy.

There was a suspected scam from a Swiss EV startup company a few years ago. A hydrogen car which was supposed to have supercar performance. Thing is, it was supposed to have a 48V system... so the claims couldn't be true of course. Not possible to get high performance with such low voltage.
They even had Koenigsegg draw the design. Pretty nice looking car, and light too.
Probably good to be a Swiss company if you want to attract investors.

Latest Innolith news:
Innolith Appoints Carrie Lin as China Chief Representative
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/innolith ... 00390.html
Innolith Appoints Stephen Wiley as US Vice President
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ksOcMvjJb-

Not saying it's not likely a scam, but being 48Vdc doesn't mean you can't be a supercar. If I were currently building an unlimited budget build targeting maximum performance in an all weather capability vehicle, I would targeting 20-21s cells maximum.

When EV tech matures beyond copying 1990s industrial VFD inverter phase count and IGBT power switches, they will change to distributed stator windings, each driven by individual half-bridge sets.
The issues of switching currents over ~500A in a compact package are eliminated, by using as many distributed phase winding and half-bridge mosfet sets as required. Scaling to multi-MW power levels at low voltages is simple with this distributed topology, and a high efficiency high performance solution. The power bussing mass can be approaching nothing as the packaging distances between battery to controller to motor approach zero distance.

Each time mosfet silicon dice mfg tech evolves, this lower voltage solution becomes more attractive. IGBTs are still experiencing the same intrensic diode drop losses they did in the 1980-90s. SiC can start to have an advantage again as voltages go very high, but this invites it's own set of added BMS cost and harnessing, EMC-EMI compliance issues from greater E-field coupling, life-safety protection, and increased corrosion and dielectric breakdown failures.

Working with current requires some level of experience in designing low resistance uniform current density bus designs, but once you design and build it, you've got a strong dice roll for being done with drama from that system, while being extremely efficient and high performance and intrensically shock-safe to touch after a wreck or road debris damage cuts into the pack.

I've been doing EVs of all voltages now for the over a decade of experience, and I would make my personal no-budget ultimate EV dragster or hypercar 20-21s (77-73Vdc pack nominal). It's somewhere between a cost savings and cost penalty depending on the application, but if you're targeting ultimate performance and safety and durability as key metrics, it turns out amazing.

I've had the blessings of experiencing the performance and long term behavior of many builds now from DIY efforts to major Aerospace fueled budgets. I started a decade ago thinking running a 500V-1000Vdc powertrain would be a good idea. After a decade of doing it, I get excited about running 1/10th that system voltage, and turn down projects in that high of voltage range due to being packed with unnecessary but critical and difficult problems to be solving.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Arlo1 » Jun 01 2019 1:03pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 31 2019 6:35pm

Not saying it's not likely a scam, but being 48Vdc doesn't mean you can't be a supercar. If I were currently building an unlimited budget build targeting maximum performance in an all weather capability vehicle, I would targeting 20-21s cells maximum.

When EV tech matures beyond copying 1990s industrial VFD inverter phase count and IGBT power switches, they will change to distributed stator windings, each driven by individual half-bridge sets.
The issues of switching currents over ~500A in a compact package are eliminated, by using as many distributed phase winding and half-bridge mosfet sets as required. Scaling to multi-MW power levels at low voltages is simple with this distributed topology, and a high efficiency high performance solution. The power bussing mass can be approaching nothing as the packaging distances between battery to controller to motor approach zero distance.

Each time mosfet silicon dice mfg tech evolves, this lower voltage solution becomes more attractive. IGBTs are still experiencing the same intrensic diode drop losses they did in the 1980-90s. SiC can start to have an advantage again as voltages go very high, but this invites it's own set of added BMS cost and harnessing, EMC-EMI compliance issues from greater E-field coupling, life-safety protection, and increased corrosion and dielectric breakdown failures.

Working with current requires some level of experience in designing low resistance uniform current density bus designs, but once you design and build it, you've got a strong dice roll for being done with drama from that system, while being extremely efficient and high performance and intrensically shock-safe to touch after a wreck or road debris damage cuts into the pack.

I've been doing EVs of all voltages now for the over a decade of experience, and I would make my personal no-budget ultimate EV dragster or hypercar 20-21s (77-73Vdc pack nominal). It's somewhere between a cost savings and cost penalty depending on the application, but if you're targeting ultimate performance and safety and durability as key metrics, it turns out amazing.

I've had the blessings of experiencing the performance and long term behavior of many builds now from DIY efforts to major Aerospace fueled budgets. I started a decade ago thinking running a 500V-1000Vdc powertrain would be a good idea. After a decade of doing it, I get excited about running 1/10th that system voltage, and turn down projects in that high of voltage range due to being packed with unnecessary but critical and difficult problems to be solving.
I agree with working hard to keep the voltages low.
I also agree to some extent with driving single coils because when you are paralleling MOSFETs in a 3 phase inverter the diminishing returns of adding more MOSFETs in parallel to each phase makes single coil control a lot more appealing.

But you will never get around the power density problem of adding voltage to increase power density. UNLESS you come up with
a transistor that can flow more current at lower voltages and you have EPIC mechanical packaging.

Using any tech we have today Your dragster will be heavier then something with higher voltage....
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