Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
No_Shorty   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 38
Joined: Jun 09 2020 7:53am

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by No_Shorty » Jul 06 2020 6:42am

neptronix wrote:
Mar 11 2020 9:54am
The test cell had almost the capacity of an 18650 but was the size of a coin cell and can produce 20,000+ cycles.
We're talking about >1000whrs/kg here which would make all the other solid state technologies being developed totally irrelevant :shock:
Where did you get this info from? I can't find reference to it. Most articles cite a 3x increase. Over 1000Wh/Kg would be 4x or more, and a 'coin cell' would be substantially more than a 4x reduction to an 18650.

kdog   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 694
Joined: Feb 02 2014 9:22pm
Location: hobart, tasmania

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by kdog » Jul 27 2020 10:55pm

Aus/us co-lab is trying to get a new battery off the ground. Source: the driven.nz

"Magnis Energy Technologies and its US partner Charge CCCV (C4V) announced to the ASX on Friday morning its Extra Fast Charge technology managed to get a battery up to 85 per cent in just six minutes"
Normal energy density cells, but goes on to say that the ultra fast charger is not associated with premature degradation of the battery.

Going to need a hefty charger @ ~8c charging :shock:

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jul 28 2020 5:44pm

kdog wrote:
Jul 27 2020 10:55pm

Going to need a hefty charger @ ~8c charging :shock:
Not especially hefty if its only a 1000mAh cell.. !
....such as a cell phone !.....which is where the big market demand will be .

...but if it is for a 100kWh EV pack......??...yea !! :shock:
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

kdog   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 694
Joined: Feb 02 2014 9:22pm
Location: hobart, tasmania

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by kdog » Jul 29 2020 8:43am

I think they're aiming at the ev market...

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 15170
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by fechter » Aug 26 2020 9:52pm

This is cool but I doubt I'll ever see a bike powered by it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo ... r-BB18mrO3
NDB's innovation is in creating a new, proprietary nano diamond treatment that allows for more efficient extraction of electric charge from the diamond used in the creation of the battery. Their goal is to ultimately commercialize a version of their battery that can self-charge for up to a maximum lifespan of 28,000 years, created from artificial diamond-encased carbon-14 nuclear waste.

This battery doesn't generate any carbon emissions in operation, and only requires access to open air to work. And while they're technically batteries, because they contain a charge which will eventually be expended, they provide their own charge for much longer than the lifetime of any specific device or individual user, making them effectively a charge-free solution.

NDB ultimately hopes to turn their battery into a viable source of power for just about anything that consumes it -- including aircraft, EVs, trains and more, all the way down to smartphones, wearables and tiny industrial sensors. The company is currently now at work creating a prototype of its first commercial battery in order to make that available sometime later this year.
Powered by nuclear waste. Cool.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 15006
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by neptronix » Aug 26 2020 10:27pm

fechter wrote:
Aug 26 2020 9:52pm
This is cool but I doubt I'll ever see a bike powered by it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo ... r-BB18mrO3

Powered by nuclear waste. Cool.
That's cool as shit even if it's a non-rechargeable. Would love to see a datasheet, lol.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

theloadedquestion   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Aug 07 2020 5:13pm

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by theloadedquestion » Aug 27 2020 10:09am

https://newatlas.com/energy/self-assemb ... dendrites/

Nice. Just wish they would hurry all these breakthroughs along, I'm not a patient man! This sounds pretty promising though.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Sep 01 2020 8:32pm

I thought it worthwhile copying this to here..
Some hope for a cheaper, safer, longer lasting, alternative for home storage battery packs.
They claim it it is so simple and easy to manufacture with readily available materials ( zinc and Bromine) that mass production costs could be 30% that of LiThium cells
GELION Endure..
https://www.gelion.com/wp-content/uploa ... -FINAL.pdf
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gelion-laun ... ays-28079/
Image
Image
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

kdog   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 694
Joined: Feb 02 2014 9:22pm
Location: hobart, tasmania

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by kdog » Oct 08 2020 12:01am

NAWA are make headlines again... Not sure what happened to the ultracap breakthrough a few years back but this time they state they are ready to commercialise the tech with scalable process.
https://newatlas.com/energy/nawa-vertic ... electrode/
Not holding my breath but one day.....

jumpjack   100 W

100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Apr 11 2011 6:16am

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by jumpjack » Oct 08 2020 3:58am

What about these new amazing cells from Tesla? They named them 4860.... erroneously, because it should have been 48600 (*), but what about their tech spec? I read "5x energy density" but also "+15% range", so what's wrong here? Which are real specs?!?

(*)
Lithium battery correct cylindrical cells nomenclature is: "diameter - length - 0 ", with "0=lithium". That's way the cells 18mm in diameter and 65 mm in length are called 18650 and not 1865...

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 15006
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by neptronix » Nov 08 2020 4:11pm

jumpjack wrote:
Oct 08 2020 3:58am
What about these new amazing cells from Tesla? They named them 4860.... erroneously, because it should have been 48600 (*), but what about their tech spec? I read "5x energy density" but also "+15% range", so what's wrong here? Which are real specs?!?

(*)
Lithium battery correct cylindrical cells nomenclature is: "diameter - length - 0 ", with "0=lithium". That's way the cells 18mm in diameter and 65 mm in length are called 18650 and not 1865...
I haven't seen a spec sheet on those yet, but based on the presentations i've seen on them, the energy density change isn't huge or revolutionary. It sounds like more of a change in packaging and production efficiency.

I think the good thing is that Tesla is continuing to step back from the idea of using tons of tiny cells. Salvaged 4860x cells will be a dream for DIY ebike pack building because you could build them with 1P or 2P :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Nov 08 2020 4:32pm

jumpjack wrote:
Oct 08 2020 3:58am
What about these new amazing cells from Tesla? They named them 4860.... erroneously, because it should have been 48600 (*), but what about their tech spec? I read "5x energy density" but also "+15% range", so what's wrong here? Which are real specs?!?

(*)
Lithium battery correct cylindrical cells nomenclature is: "diameter - length - 0 ", with "0=lithium". That's way the cells 18mm in diameter and 65 mm in length are called 18650 and not 1865...
Even without seeing a spec sheet, you must know that “5x energy density” is total BS !
If it were even 1.5X ED improvement, it would be a industry revolution with street parties on the Moon
.....but it is’nt !
And you are late to the game with the “Cell nomenclature”....Tesla’s previous cell was termed a 2170 rather than a 21700.... from 5 years ago..
Since they make them, they can call them anything they want
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

SlowCo   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1639
Joined: Jan 05 2015 5:43pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by SlowCo » Nov 09 2020 2:50pm

Hillhater wrote:
Nov 08 2020 4:32pm
jumpjack wrote:
Oct 08 2020 3:58am
What about these new amazing cells from Tesla? They named them 4860.... erroneously, because it should have been 48600 (*), but what about their tech spec? I read "5x energy density" but also "+15% range", so what's wrong here? Which are real specs?!?

(*)
Lithium battery correct cylindrical cells nomenclature is: "diameter - length - 0 ", with "0=lithium". That's way the cells 18mm in diameter and 65 mm in length are called 18650 and not 1865...
Even without seeing a spec sheet, you must know that “5x energy density” is total BS !
If it were even 1.5X ED improvement, it would be a industry revolution with street parties on the Moon
.....but it is’nt !
And you are late to the game with the “Cell nomenclature”....Tesla’s previous cell was termed a 2170 rather than a 21700.... from 5 years ago..
Since they make them, they can call them anything they want
As the new cell is a lot bigger then a 2170 isn't the '5x the energy density' meant per cell (new vs old)? And the +15% range per volume of the total battery pack size?

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Nov 09 2020 4:49pm

SlowCo wrote:
Nov 09 2020 2:50pm
As the new cell is a lot bigger then a 2170 isn't the '5x the energy density' meant per cell (new vs old)? And the +15% range per volume of the total battery pack size?
look up the definition of “Energy Density”..
& Since when was range a function of battery pack “volume “ ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

SlowCo   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1639
Joined: Jan 05 2015 5:43pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by SlowCo » Nov 09 2020 4:59pm

Hillhater wrote:
Nov 09 2020 4:49pm
SlowCo wrote:
Nov 09 2020 2:50pm
As the new cell is a lot bigger then a 2170 isn't the '5x the energy density' meant per cell (new vs old)? And the +15% range per volume of the total battery pack size?
look up the definition of “Energy Density”..
& Since when was range a function of battery pack “volume “ ?

My apology, I meant to only write 'energy' without the 'density' behind it. As that is what they claimed on Tesla's Battery Day:


Tesla new cell.jpg
Tesla new cell.jpg (102.44 KiB) Viewed 628 times
As I also immediately thought "that can't be right such a big step in density" I rewound the video and saw their marketing term 'energy'. But most people overlooked that and Tesla fanboys now claim the 5x energy density. Smart move Tesla... 8)

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Nov 09 2020 5:28pm

No prob’s ! :wink:
Teslas info reveal on this (4680 ..not 4860 ?)..cell was very “promo” like.
On simple volume ratio it is 5.54 times larger than the 2170 cell which Tesla rate at 4.8 Ah.
..so from a “volumetric” point of view the larger cell should be capable of a 26.6Ah capacity even using the current chemistry... but i believe Tesla have reported 25 Ah ??..which would not suggest an increase in energy density at all !
.. Further, the “6X power” statement could simply result from the increased Ah capacity ..( assuming the same “C” rate as the 21700).....But i would have expected a significantly higher “C” rate from the new “tabless” construction, especially as they implied a lower IR for this cell.
At the end of the day, these are practically pre-production “prototype” cells and may not fully reflect the final commercial production specifications.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
Stealth_Chopper   10 W

10 W
Posts: 98
Joined: Aug 30 2019 8:08am

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Stealth_Chopper » Jan 05 2021 9:58pm

“Report on Emerging Energy Storage Technologies,” presents the results of research
conducted by NSWCCD for CPSC, under CPSC Contract No. CPSC-I-17-0002. CPSC funded this
research to learn about emerging high-energy-density battery technologies and to identify strategies to
mitigate the fire hazards related to battery failures. "

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/NSWCCD ... Cwb2eiznIT

Summary ex:
"Battery safety remains a pressing issue for
LIB, and despite their ubiquity in many markets, the trends for future LIB are to become more
energy dense and cheaper, but not necessarily safer. "

Safety ex:
"Typically, cells are assembled into modules by spot-welding the positive and negative tabs
on each cell into the desired series or parallel arrangements. In more complex modules passive
safety mechanisms (e.g. fuses, channels for vent gases, intumescent materials) and/or active
mechanisms (e.g. forced air or circulated liquid cooling) may be included but in many instances,
:bolt: :bolt: cells are simply restrained with epoxy and sealed into a suitable enclosure. Alternative module
assemblies deliberately designed for improved safety have also been demonstrated, but are not
widely adopted by industry
. :bolt: :bolt: While intrinsic safety at the cell level, either by modifying the LIB
chemistry or adopting a safer alternative, non-propagating battery designs are a valuable second
layer of protection for cells and can contain thermal runaway should it occur."
Last edited by Stealth_Chopper on Jan 06 2021 9:43am, edited 1 time in total.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 05 2021 11:51pm

...Toyota’s Solid State EV battery
There is a lot of noise on the jungle drums about Toyota going full commercial in 2021 with a solid State battery in a new EV
Japanese car maker Toyota will introduce a solid state battery that can recharge to full in just 10 minutes 2021, a move that could revolutionise the electric vehicle market.
Focus is on the 10 min recharge time, but few details of capacities , energy density, costs ,..etc etc
https://thedriven.io/2020/12/14/toyota- ... -for-2021/
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11406
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Jan 05 2021 11:53pm

Deleted
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Post Reply