The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
markz
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by markz » Apr 27, 2017 6:47 pm

I am amazed you can do 103V and 5A on that unit.
I am thinking about buying either the 72V because it can do
36V to 84V Nominal Batteries, 103V 5A max.
But the 48V model cranks out a little more amps
24V-52V Nominal Batteries, 63V 8A Max Output.
I am not a speed demon by any means, I like cruising at 30-40kph so 48V is what I like. When I do go 72V its not speed I am after but torque via smaller wheel diameter. I got my 9C clone kit I do 36V or 48V on, my BMC V1 geared I will do the same. The MXUS 3kW is the only one I do 72V on.

I hope Grin puts a bit of a deal on this at the bike show in Van.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by Marc S. » Apr 28, 2017 3:37 am

markz wrote:I am amazed you can do 103V and 5A on that unit.
I am thinking about buying either the 72V because it can do
36V to 84V Nominal Batteries, 103V 5A max.
You can't. 103V x 5A = 515W
Since the Satiator is a 360W charger, at 103V it will max out at 3.5A.
Hence, charging at 5A is only possible up to 72V.
markz wrote:But the 48V model cranks out a little more amps
24V-52V Nominal Batteries, 63V 8A Max Output.
63V x 8A = 504W
Again, they are 360W chargers. At 8A output, it will 'only' be able to charge up to 45V.
At 63V it will charge with up to 5.7A.
Last edited by Marc S. on Apr 30, 2017 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by pucksterpete » Apr 29, 2017 3:34 am

Sounds like we might have some defective batches coming off the assembly line in China
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markz
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by markz » Apr 30, 2017 11:11 pm

Ah yessss Thanks Marc S for clearing that up.
Thats what that little astrics is for.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by mistercrash » Aug 13, 2017 8:01 am

pucksterpete wrote:Sounds like we might have some defective batches coming off the assembly line in China
I have the same error message. Sent an email to Grin. I hope this can be fixed easily without sending back the unit.
Is it ready yet?

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V1.023 firmware update and potential capacitor issue

Post by justin_le » Aug 13, 2017 9:24 pm

Hey everyone, nothing too pressing but for those who want the most recent firmware on the Satiator devices we now have a V1.023 release that you can upgrade to. Most of the changes are small behavioral fixes to allow the Satiator to better cope with scenarios of BMS circuits tripping and releasing and some risks of damaging the soft start circuitry if you disconnect and reconnect a satiator from the battery at just the right (wrong) moment. You should be able to just click "Get latest firmware" from your existing satiator software suite or you can download it again from here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle ... #downloads

In any case, the main reason I'm writing is to mention that we have indeed experienced a much higher than expected issue rate on a recent (late 2016) production run of Satiator devices that we've been able to trace back to what seems to be a compromised batch of film capacitors. This was a real puzzle since we are inside the safe operating zone for the cap over the full operating voltage, currents, and temperature limits of the device, and had no capacitor issues in the first two years of widespread release. There are 3 tank caps on the device and if one of them fails then there will be frequent screen glitches and occasional "Pwr Fault" error messages, but when 2 or 3 of them go then the charger doesn't really work at all. When we disassemble the failed capacitors they all show signs of corrosion/oxidation of the metal film, while those from the earlier runs with 1000's of hours of use are all perfectly shiny all the way through.
FilmCapacitors.jpg
FilmCapacitors.jpg (65.02 KiB) Viewed 791 times
FailedCapacitorFilm.jpg
FailedCapacitorFilm.jpg (193.11 KiB) Viewed 791 times
It looks like a case where there was a manufacturing issue on the cap itself and we are pursuing an investigation to try and trace this.

Anyways, if somebody has issues with their Satiator along these lines regardless of where you purchased the unit from, please contact Grin directly by email and we'll sort things out under warranty right away. The capacitors are easy enough to replace but there are some risks in the disassembly and reassembly of the unit and so we'll generally want to have the device send back to us for repair/replacement, and we apologize for the inconvenience to anyone who is affected by this.

It's not at all what we wanted to have happen and sadly there wasn't an easy way to catch this earlier during the QC and burn-in steps.
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Custom V1.022 firmware with remote control of Satiator via s

Post by justin_le » Aug 16, 2017 11:22 pm

Oh, and I forgot to mention we also released a prototype build of the firmware that allows you to use the serial port for selecting profiles, starting and aborting charge etc. This is just a basic proof of concept implementation, and doesn't support any realtime logging of the charge data, only the charge state (ie whether charging is complete, battery is disconnected etc.) for evaluation by companies that want to use the Satiator in the context of public ebike charging stations and what not.

Both the command instructions and firmware are attached if anyone here has a use for this.
Attachments
v1.022.serialcmd.satiator.zip
Firmware bundle for Satiator with basic remote serial control enabled.
(107.21 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
v1.022.serial_command_instructions.pdf
Basic serial commands explained
(27.48 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by amberwolf » Aug 17, 2017 1:37 am

I might've asked this before (can't remember) but is there any chance of making an alternate firmware that uses the signal line in an analog way to detect which pack it is hooked to?

Then in the profile for a particular setup the voltage (resistance?) expected on that line would be it's own field. (automatically excluding the temperature stuff for NiXX/etc packs).

This way anyone that has basic electronics skills can install the appropriate resistor in teh pack's charging connector for the third pin of their connector (XLR or whatever), then setup a profile that includes that so the Satiator can activate it when it's detected.

Depending on how the firmware is made, it coudl have a setup option to disable or enable this feature, so that those using temperature sensors for NiMH or NiCd (etc) could still use it normally, and it woudlnt' auto-change profiles, but those that did want to enable it could do so.


It'd be a feature that would have to be explicitly enabled, and profiles explicitly created to utilize it, as a safety feature to prevent accidentally using such profiles on packs that just happened to have a sense line wired in a way that would cause activation of a wrong profile on it. (as unlikely as that would be).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by justin_le » Aug 17, 2017 3:29 pm

amberwolf wrote:I might've asked this before (can't remember) but is there any chance of making an alternate firmware that uses the signal line in an analog way to detect which pack it is hooked to?
Yes, this was discussed in some detail on this thread here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 67#p940267

Basically, the idea is there and if there is a decent volume OEM user of the Satiator that would need this feature then we'd be able to implement it. At the moment though, most of the potential users doing automatic pack ID are using a more robust RFID or similar digital handshaking protocol of their own choosing, and can then use this digital command interface to select the appropriate profile on the Satiator and start charging.

The analog solution with resistors in the 3rd pin of the XLR plug would be a lot easier for home and DIY users, but we haven't received much interest in this and I'd be a bit nervous about water ingress in the connector or other things messing with the analog signal (like a broken solder joint) causing the wrong profile to be automatically selected.
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by Eerder Metaal » Aug 19, 2017 7:43 am

I've got a problem with a 48 volt satiator which I used succesfully for two weeks, about ten charges. Started with the V1.23 firmware. But now it keeps on going on into pwr fault. Also on the next day and after reinstallation of the firmware. I checked the "Overwrite Profile Data" checkbox and reloaded the profile data from file afterwards. This 8P10S battery I build myself has no bms. I tried a different battery with bms, but no success either. With another Satiator, same model and age, but maybe an older firmware version (have to check), I don't have this issue, so it seems to be the charger who's tripping

What else can I do to get it going again?

cheers Vincent

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiast

Post by justin_le » Aug 21, 2017 3:19 pm

Eerder Metaal wrote: What else can I do to get it going again?
cheers Vincent
Hey Vincent and anyone else in a similar boat. Just send an email to info@ebikes.ca explaining the situation and we'll arrange a quick fix under warranty. This almost for sure is a case of one of these bad film capacitors.
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Jan 10, 2018 3:08 pm

I'd wish a Travel Satiator or Satiator Lite.

Primarily with reduced weight, from 1.33 kgs down to 0.4-0.6 kgs.

I can live with reduced features, like:
- (much) lower current / power (2A would be acceptable, 4A is better)
- shorter cables
- no galvanic isolation / no "PE" connection on mains input (a dual conductor philips type cable weights less then the current triple conductor cable)
- no display (instead 3 options to select a charging-profile, like a switch or toggle button and 3 corresponding LED's) [storage 45%, battery-life-optimized full @80%, maximum-range @100%]
- less weight, by:
(a) light weight casing
(b) different charging connector [then XLR]
(c) and/or no Y-splitter cables, only 1 output directly from adapter directly to battery connector
- no-load power consumption according to
(a) EU CoC Tier 2 (<= 150 milliwatts @230V for 50-250W output power)
(b) DoE even @230V (<= 0.500 milliwatts for >250W output power)

I can't live with:
- 36V charging
- reduced efficiency
- no mechanism to program charging profiles

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