The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Jul 16 2019 11:04pm

eikido wrote:
Jul 16 2019 6:48am
If i'm not mistaken, the Cycle Satiator can estimate a battery packs capacity since it calculates the Ah charged?
That is if it's still fresh or bad.
It simply measures the Ah as you charge. So if you discharged the battery until it's BMS shut down, then recharged it with the Satiator,then right after the charge stopped the first time, you'd see the total Ah needed to do the recharge, which is close to (a bit more than) the pack's capacity.

You'd still want to leave it on the charger for anywhere for a few hours or longer, to let it rebalance itself, and that will add a few Ah to the readout that isn't part of the pack capacity.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 27 2019 4:32pm

Had recently bought mine (2weeks ago via Amazon) and used it w/o any issues for a 48v:12.6 pack at 54.6/6.2amps charge.

Now all of a sudden it stopped working. Battery okay, i have a back up Luna cycles charger and it works .

Basically when i start a charge it raises the voltage Higher then what the battery has and can not charge it.

For example: from start : 0, .... it will go all the way to 57v, 57.2 v, then it settles on 56.2v and displays “charge complete” .

Since it is a 48v battery, before , when charging it was gradually increasing and as the charge was progressing it was going from whatever voltage it was the lowest on the battery to 51,52 and so on until 54.6 or 54.5 as i have it programmed.

I measured with The Multimeter at the contacts coming from the output on the Satiator and it gives same as shown on the display . It goes high -57,58,59 even 60v then lowers to 56.2.

Tried different profiles,lower amps , no change.

Firmware 1.026.

I use an additional 3meter long cable(the original charger cable)that i spliced to the Grin’s Xlr , resistance is set at 0.087.
But that wasn’t an issues , since i was using it like this for at least 15-20cycles.

What could be the problem ? ?

The battery pack is a hi quality one (Ebike is a Bh/Easy motion).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Oct 28 2019 12:05am

SPedelec wrote:
Oct 27 2019 4:32pm
For example: from start : 0, .... it will go all the way to 57v, 57.2 v, then it settles on 56.2v and displays “charge complete” .
This usually indicates taht the battery's BMS has shut off it's input to protect it from overcharge; one or more cells is already full.

Or that the BMS has detected one or more cells is below the minimum allowable voltage to be recharged, and has turned off it's input to protect you from a potential fire.

If you can measure the individual cells in the pack to find out what their voltages are, you can verify if either of these is the case.


It can also be that you have a broken wire between the point at which you can measure the voltage out of the Satiator as being correct, and the input of the batteyr pack itself inside it's casing.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 28 2019 11:43am

I can charge the pack with the LUNA cycles charger at 5amps no issues.

It is clearly something wrong with the Satiator , but what ?
Why would the voltage spike higher then what i had set it for ?

Set for 54.6v , it spikes all up to 56.2b within 7-9sexonds of starting the charge, then says “charge complete “

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Oct 28 2019 11:11pm

Then I don't know what is cuasing it.

The only time I have seen that myself is when a pack's BMS shuts off the input to do balancing, or to protect from overcharge. Then when the BMS turns the input bakc on again once high cells are drained down a bit by balancing, the Satiator restarts charge normally, and this cycle continues until the pack is balanced.

I'd guess the voltage spike is inductive when the BMS cuts off, but I don't know for sure. (no idea where the induction would come from)

You should probably contact Grin Tech directly @ info@ebikes.ca for direct troubleshooting with them. They are taking a couple of days to a week or so to repsond to emails based on a current conversation I have going with them about a controller issue, probably because of their remodelling.

(and post the final results back here, so others will know what causes it in case they have the same problem).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by tomjasz » Oct 29 2019 12:39am

SPedelec wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:43am
I can charge the pack with the LUNA cycles charger at 5amps no issues.

It is clearly something wrong with the Satiator , but what ?
Why would the voltage spike higher then what i had set it for ?

Set for 54.6v , it spikes all up to 56.2b within 7-9sexonds of starting the charge, then says “charge complete “
You soldered a new adapter, perhaps the problem is traceable to that? Perhaps the result of a short.

Amberwolf, what would the effect of a shorted adapter produce?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Oct 29 2019 12:48am

If it was shorted from + to - the Satiator would detect a short and give an error.

If it was shorted from either of those to the thermistor line (third wire in the XLR) I don't know what would happen. (same for if it was shorted from either of those to the serial data lines in the TRS jack wiring).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 29 2019 1:03am

No wire shorted either. I have the temp. Wire soldered also, no issues. It does show battery temp. -25-27celsius. No issues there.
The voltage just climbs higher then the limit. Even if the battery only has 51 or 52volts , Satiator stays at 55,56.2b then message “charging complete” .
I can take a short video for clarification.


I hope tmrw. Someone will pick up the phone from Grin. Long wait since Friday.

The adapter cable is about 3meters long, it was charging fine like that many times before , that never was a problem. The resistance is set at 0.087. Maybe it should be lowered but again that was never an issue.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Oct 29 2019 1:14am

SPedelec wrote:
Oct 29 2019 1:03am
I hope tmrw. Someone will pick up the phone from Grin. Long wait since Friday.
If you check the Grin Tech home page http://ebikes.ca , you'll see that they are renovating, and that they will be difficult to reach by phone but that email still works (at least as much as I noted above).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by st35326 » Oct 29 2019 4:43am

I have two Cycle Satiators bought from Amazon (one at work and one at home so I don't have to carry) and they work great but maybe you got a bad one? Send it back maybe? Whats the error on the screen?
Post up a screenshot.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by tomjasz » Oct 29 2019 11:18am

st35326 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 4:43am
I have two Cycle Satiators bought from Amazon (one at work and one at home so I don't have to carry) and they work great but maybe you got a bad one? Send it back maybe? Whats the error on the screen?
Post up a screenshot.
Hmmmm.... by Amazon this could have been already resolved and replaced. I feel like an idiot not suggesting that.


During this time we will operate in business-as-usual for all our online orders and email tech support. However, the storefront will be closed to casual walk-in visits except by appointment only, and our phone may unresponsive for long stretches of times too.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 29 2019 12:21pm

Is really very poor customer service for a $300 item... they have the option to transfer the calls from the 609 number to Justin cell phone because this an expensive item.
It takes 10-20-30sec. To have Siri type an email response !
Well it’s five days no email response nothing , I have to return it and get a refund ; if I get a replacement maybe will go bad again and it will go on an on. I have a luna cycle I’ll buy another Luna as a back up. B/c my battery is only a 12.6 , max. It could do is 6.2amps which is still nice, i have to settle for 5amps.
Is a nice device for a tech. Geek like me but I don’t have time to open it up and check the capacitors, etc....

From What i’ve read nobody had this issue before And the firmware is the newest. Hopefully this unit it will reach one of the Grin techs soon and he or she will figure out the issue.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 29 2019 1:18pm

Here is a better clearer description.

Like i said i can charge bat. With Luna at 5amps, cable adapter okay.


Didn’t mention it prior, b/c is easy to deduct from the issue,
But the THE AMPS STAY AT 0 VALUE.

Issue:

No matter from what battery voltage i charge , Satiator voltage starts normally then within 7-9seconds climbs higher then the profile voltage by 1-2volts.

Ex. 54.5 target voltage.

Battery voltage 52v or 49/ 51. I Tried charging from those values for last few days.

Satiator start: 0, 30,40, etc , 52,53,54,55,56.2 back to 55,56.2 then message “Charge complete”.

THE AMPS STAY AT 0 VALUE ! The amps values stays at 0.0 or 0.1, 0.2 for 1-2seconds.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 29 2019 2:36pm

[*ImageHooray 😃 , problem fixed.

Wiring issue, for some reason the Neutrik connector (mine). Developed one loose connection (allthough the soldered joints felt strong , somewhere there was a lost contact...).


I will order 2 Gold contact Neutrik amd rebuild the connections.

See the pics , is charging fine ...

Ps- the wiring is just for troubleshooting the issue, it will be remedied.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by SPedelec » Oct 29 2019 2:40pm

https://ibb.co/xLQF2Dk
https://ibb.co/2Pjs7d6
https://ibb.co/M1kczJz


Q for the experienced techs/engineers !

Would you rather rebuild it with Neutrik connectors or just solder those wires /electrical tape ?



Btw- i had already charged it with Luna previously and it was already at 100% , it is just balancing the cells in pics.

Note- The “issue” Was - loose contact and the Satiator was sending voltage , that’s why i had that voltage spiking/charge complet on the display.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by quamau » Nov 27 2019 6:41am

I am about to order a standard Cycle Satiator.

Would some kind soul confirm to me that the programmer cable I already own for the Cycle Analyst is also good for the Satiator?

Thanks in advance

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Merlin » Nov 27 2019 8:01am

yes it works also.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by banzai » Dec 28 2019 11:34am

Just got my Satiator, had a few issues with finding the right cable to update the firmware, as I do not have a CA and its cable. Tried with different TTL USB interfaces, the one with wch340 chip did not work, same with other two with prolific 2303, at the end I found the xiaoxiang BMS PC interface in a box, that has the FTDI chip. After a few tries, with a 2k resistor on rx and 1k on tx I got it connected and finally updated firmware. I also noted, during my multiple tries, that the xlr charge cable is assembled in an odd way, connector 2 on battery side is connected to connector marked 1 on charger side, same with 1 and 2, 3 is correct. The charger works, so it means that cable and charger connections are coherent. Charged my 36V24A at 4,05V and from BMS Bluetooth I see it's perfectly balanced. Fully satisfied, thanks Grin for the big grin on my face.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by quamau » Jan 01 2020 10:40am

Reporting my success and full satisfaction story with the satiator.

After 10+ years of cheap chargers (that never failed but were noisy, difficult to regulate, slow, plasticky, etc) I have now a couple weeks experience with the satiator. It's a different world. The thing is indeed expensive, but my take on it is "get a satiator as early as you can afford".

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by pjwalmsley » Jan 24 2020 7:53pm

Hey guys anyone have any info on using this as a sub 32 volt power supply?

Basically I'm putting together a pack but I want to test each cell first so I the packs I put in series will have the same voltage. I've been advised to use an iCharger X8 to test cell capacity. My welder also needs two lipo packs packs to deliver current for the welds. The iCharger can use those packs for regenerative testing. Should be a slick setup - only problem is that I have no way of charging those packs to start off with. The suggested 12v 60amp PSU is $70. The recommended welder PSU is $25 used (but will need a super capacitor to be used with the welder). Both of these deliver lots of current which the charger can use (outputs 3.7v 240amps). That said if I can get away with using this charger which I wanted for the end bike that would be nice. The manual says the 72v Satiator is capable of output voltage range is 20-103V 0-5A.

I read 20s is what they officially support. Has anyone use this with 21s or am I asking for trouble?

Between the price, flexibility, and the unit being a bit undersized for my bike, I'm starting to wonder if I would be better off with something like this suggestion: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=104390 Thoughts?

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by diatoun » Mar 12 2020 8:30am

Some people have asked if it is possible to use two satiators in parallel but I have not found a clear answer.

I know that using two lab power supplies is a very bad idea, so I'm wondering.

Does anyone have the answer?

Or if anyone knows of a quality 72v LFP charger over 9A I'm interested :wink:

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by mrbill » Mar 12 2020 11:03am

diatoun wrote:
Mar 12 2020 8:30am
Some people have asked if it is possible to use two satiators in parallel but I have not found a clear answer.

I know that using two lab power supplies is a very bad idea, so I'm wondering.

Does anyone have the answer?
While I haven't tried using two Satiators to charge one battery, I have run a Satiator and one or more cheap chargers in parallel when charging one battery so that I could get a fast charge. Works as one would expect and damages neither the chargers nor the battery, assuming one doesn't exceed the battery's maximum charge current. You do want both chargers to terminate charge at roughly the same voltage.
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Mar 13 2020 3:32am

diatoun wrote:
Mar 12 2020 8:30am
I know that using two lab power supplies is a very bad idea,
not if they're designed like they should be. really cheap ones may not be, but stuff like sorensons, etc., ought to be; they should self-adjust to the voltage necessary to supply the current demanded by the load whether by themselves or in parallel.

meanwell led psus can also be used in parallel (or series, or use four or more for two series and two parallel if you need more voltage and current than one or a pair can provide).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by diatoun » Mar 13 2020 4:51am

mrbill wrote:
Mar 12 2020 11:03am
diatoun wrote:
Mar 12 2020 8:30am
Some people have asked if it is possible to use two satiators in parallel but I have not found a clear answer.

I know that using two lab power supplies is a very bad idea, so I'm wondering.

Does anyone have the answer?
While I haven't tried using two Satiators to charge one battery, I have run a Satiator and one or more cheap chargers in parallel when charging one battery so that I could get a fast charge. Works as one would expect and damages neither the chargers nor the battery, assuming one doesn't exceed the battery's maximum charge current. You do want both chargers to terminate charge at roughly the same voltage.


The standard load of the LFP A123 cells is given for 15A on standard charge and 60A up to 80% DOD on fast charge for 6S. 2 Satiator does not even manage to exceed the standard charge :D
I found other chargers in 15 or 20A but they are all much too heavy. Minimum 3.5kg

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Marc S. » Mar 17 2020 3:10am

diatoun wrote:
Mar 12 2020 8:30am
Some people have asked if it is possible to use two satiators in parallel but I have not found a clear answer.
I'm using two 48V Satiators (combined with other 36V chargers if needed) in parallel every day for several years, now. It just works. At the end of charge, one Satiator will reach end of charge about 0.1V before the other, though.

Image
the two Satiators are bolted together. The rubber O-rings around them act as feet and prevent scratches

According to Justin, two Satiators connected in series should also work. I've tried it once, but both Satiators indicated a short and switched off (no harm done, they are well protected against shorts). Since I didn't made a proper serial harness for the test, I guess my serial cable rig was dodgy.
diatoun wrote:
Mar 12 2020 8:30am
Or if anyone knows of a quality 72v LFP charger over 9A I'm interested :wink:
I've split my 72V battery into two 36V batteries and charge them in parallel instead. Usually, the 36V BMS should not be affected, since each 36V BMS only sees 36V, not 72V. But you should check that before. ;)
For ease of use, I've soldered six XP60 (3 male, 3 female) plugs into a 3x3 plug, to be able to charge up to three 36V batteries with up to three chargers in parallel.

To avoid large current flows between the batteries if you charge them in parallel, you first plug-in every battery alone, note the voltage on the Satiator screen, plug in the battery with the lowest voltage first (usually its not more than 0.1-0.3V* difference in resting voltage between the batteries), start charging and plug-in the other batteries when the charging voltage reaches their respective resting voltages.

*if the voltage difference between the batteries is higher than 0.3V, I'll usually charge them separately

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