Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

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motomech   1.21 GW

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by motomech » Apr 14 2016 8:01am

I have 4 bricks of 6S/10,000mAh new Multistar sitting on my bench waiting for bullet connectors to start break-in process.
Looking to replace 4 bricks of Turnigy 6S/5,000mAh 20C, for about the same size and weight pack.
Motomech '11 Motobecane Fathom team, frt. mounted, recycled SWX02 from a Jump rental, 14S (52V nom.) Turnigy LiPoly, PSW Power 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Schwalbe Marathon's, 27 to 28 MPH.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 14 2016 9:25am

anyone try the 12ah packs out yet? Are they 1P?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 14 2016 9:29am

skeetab5780 wrote:anyone try the 12ah packs out yet? Are they 1P?
Yes, 1P I bought 2 last summer got maybe 300 fairly shallow cycles before one cell petered out on me. Granted I did a deep discharge on it when it finally went on me. I have the 4s 16000mah now....
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 14 2016 10:02am

Wow they have 16ah and 20ah packs now...That's crazy. No more putting 20 hardcase 5000mah packs together anymore

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Hillhater » Apr 14 2016 5:40pm

wineboyrider wrote:
skeetab5780 wrote:anyone try the 12ah packs out yet? Are they 1P?
Yes, 1P ....
FYI....it depends which 12ah packs you are looking at.
The "lightweight". 12ahr packs (2C) are 2P construction.
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by millzy555 » Apr 14 2016 5:58pm

Anyone know if the 16ah 6s packs will be available soon (Aus $100) or is this gone for good. Only bought 2 :cry: knowing full well that i'd need more in future. Might have to jump ship to the 18650's

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Hillhater » Apr 14 2016 7:57pm

millzy555 wrote:Anyone know if the 16ah 6s packs will be available soon (Aus $100) or is this gone for good. Only bought 2 :cry: knowing full well that i'd need more in future. Might have to jump ship to the 18650's
Yea, i missed those too,
But even if they do come back ( backorder listed) the price has shot back up to $159 :cry:
The 16Ahr 4s, packs are still available Au$66.
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 16 2016 11:59am

I bought 6 4s 16ah 10c Multistars on sale for $300 bucks. That's 1400 wh worth 12s 32ah. :twisted: They are 1P the 6s 12ah 10c multistars are also 1p
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by danielrlee » Apr 16 2016 7:35pm

wineboyrider wrote:I bought 6 4s 16ah 10c Multistars on sale for $300 bucks. That's 1400 wh worth 12s 32ah. :twisted: They are 1P the 6s 12ah 10c multistars are also 1p
Are you sure that the 4S 16Ah Multistars are 1P? I could have sworn that there are more than four cells in mine....
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by motomech » Apr 17 2016 4:51am

If there are 2P bricks, I've never seen them.
Go to Hobbyking and look.
Motomech '11 Motobecane Fathom team, frt. mounted, recycled SWX02 from a Jump rental, 14S (52V nom.) Turnigy LiPoly, PSW Power 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Schwalbe Marathon's, 27 to 28 MPH.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by 1KW » Apr 17 2016 8:04am

they should be the same as the 6s 16000mah, which were 2P... Hobby king has been out of the good packs for awhile, I don't know if i can wait any longer. I can go 4s but for 100v thats 6 damn packs to manage vs 4 with 6s :evil:

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Hillhater » Apr 17 2016 8:30am

motomech wrote:If there are 2P bricks, I've never seen them.
Go to Hobbyking and look.
It appears there are 2 different types of 16 Ahr packs.
The normal "high capacity" 4s and 6 s packs that are assembled from 2p , 8Ahr cells...
...and the "LIHV " 4s and 6s packs assembled using 1P 16Ahr cells ( lighter and more expensive. )
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 17 2016 8:59pm

Yes they are 2p sorry bout that. There is only one 4s balance lead.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html

Still $49
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by le15otl » May 25 2016 9:00am

One of my multistar 20ahs is starting to go downhill. All cells but particularly one have a lot of voltage sag now. One cell is sagging to about 2.8v under less than 30A load towards the end of it's discharge, although it recovers to around 3.6v after 30 mins of resting. (Others are around 3.7 at this point)

My question is, am I ok to discharge to well below 3.2v under load if after some time it recovers back to 3.6v? Is the mini safe voltage defined as the voltage after full recovery?
The first minute after load it's still only 3.1ish so it's more than high internal resistance.

Any thoughts ?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by motomech » May 25 2016 12:01pm

Sounds like you are abusing your Multistar Batteries.
If you read back though this thread, you will see that icecube57, after extensive discharge testing, recommended a max. discharge rate of 25 Amps for Multistar. And you are over-discharging as well. At 3.7 cel/V.,the pack is done and needs recharging. In fact, most of us try and stay in the 80% depth of discharge range to maximize the service life of the batteries. Trying to use the pack with cell Voltages below 3,7V is not only an exersise in futility(there is not much there), it is flirting with disaster.
You might try removing the weak cell. I have done it with standard Lipo, but it is difficult to solder/unsolder what amounts to foil covered plastic. The Multistar uses metal tabs, and although I haven't tried, they look like they would be easier to unsolder/solder. But I suspect the damage is done, and other cells will soon follow suit.
It seems to me you need some new Lipo, and a revision of how you use it.
Motomech '11 Motobecane Fathom team, frt. mounted, recycled SWX02 from a Jump rental, 14S (52V nom.) Turnigy LiPoly, PSW Power 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Schwalbe Marathon's, 27 to 28 MPH.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by le15otl » May 25 2016 4:20pm

Well it was a 2.5C discharge actually... which is 25A on a 10ah battery, but my batteries are 20ah. :wink:

I am only discharging to about 3.6 - 3.7v/cell (no load) really but the voltage is just sagging a lot now on that one cell.
Good that the tabs are easier to solder I might look for a replacement cell at some point

I haven't abused the lipo...

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Suggs » May 26 2016 7:28am

le15otl wrote:One of my multistar 20ahs is starting to go downhill. All cells but particularly one have a lot of voltage sag now. One cell is sagging to about 2.8v under less than 30A load towards the end of it's discharge
How much do they sag when fully charged and with a decent load? Say 30A?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by le15otl » May 26 2016 12:53pm

Not badly, I haven't checked but it seems to be only be an issue when it's at least half discharged
Maybe 0.1V

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Offroader » May 26 2016 6:37pm

le15otl wrote:One of my multistar 20ahs is starting to go downhill. All cells but particularly one have a lot of voltage sag now. One cell is sagging to about 2.8v under less than 30A load towards the end of it's discharge, although it recovers to around 3.6v after 30 mins of resting. (Others are around 3.7 at this point)

My question is, am I ok to discharge to well below 3.2v under load if after some time it recovers back to 3.6v? Is the mini safe voltage defined as the voltage after full recovery?
The first minute after load it's still only 3.1ish so it's more than high internal resistance.

Any thoughts ?
Which cell is it in the pack? I found usually my 1st and last cells in the pack give me trouble because they get squished easily. If this pack with trouble is at the bottom or someplace getting more abuse this usually happens.

I've been told that resting voltage is what matters, no big deal if they sag below 3.65.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by le15otl » May 27 2016 3:06am

It's cell number one. I've also found that the first cell is always the bad one for some reason, the one where the main negative pole is.
I have gathered that too but what I'm wondering is if it's resting voltage after 1 minute of resting or after 30 mins that counts

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Skrzypas » May 27 2016 4:33am

When you remove load from a cell, the ohmic polarization disappears already after less than 1 ms. Then the voltage is growing for some minutes. During those minutes, the chemical stabilization in the liquid electrolyte occurs, as well as phenomena on the electrodes stabilize. So I would use resting voltage just after load release.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by le15otl » May 27 2016 5:06am

Ah right thanks for that. I will probably have to replace the cell then. Between load release and full chemical stabilisation after about 30 minutes there's a massive increase - like 0.6v

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by icecube57 » May 27 2016 11:19am

The cell is likely bad. With my testing on the multistars came a point where the cell couldnt sustain a load and give 100% capacity without dipping below 3.5v. Thats where I got the 2.5C from this is the only load that I could draw at for the entire discharge and it not sag like betty white titties. Pushing them any hard yielded less capacity by it not being able to hold a voltage above the LVC of a controller set at 3.5v a cell.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Offroader » May 27 2016 11:37am

with my turnigy 20C packs i was always replacing bad cells. This is why I'm happy I am using 18650 cells now and not lipo packs.

I believe the problem is not supporting the packs and they get squished easily. Even slight pressure will start warping the outer cells. Surprisingly, they can get squished pretty badly and still function well enough.

If I had to use Lipo packs again I would spend a lot of time making sure each pack was very secure, especially around the edges.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by deepfraught » Jul 18 2016 4:25am

Offroader wrote:with my turnigy 20C packs i was always replacing bad cells. This is why I'm happy I am using 18650 cells now and not lipo packs.

I believe the problem is not supporting the packs and they get squished easily. Even slight pressure will start warping the outer cells. Surprisingly, they can get squished pretty badly and still function well enough.

If I had to use Lipo packs again I would spend a lot of time making sure each pack was very secure, especially around the edges.
These packs fit nicely into a modified food container for physical protection, snugly strapped into a frame bag. They've got a very easy life operating from 85% charge to 60% discharge left between rides and charged again, and I've got a second pair and second container for duty/standby that I've cycled through a couple times. The intention was long range capability, but I've ended up pedalling without assistance for recreational riding, not commuting or going distance within limited time there's really no rush so it's been an easy life for them so far. Definitely baby-ing them for long life since they're very versatile as 6S or 12S across a few different electric drives.

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