Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Alan B » Jul 24 2015 7:36am

When comparing a pack to a cell don't forget to add all the interconnect resistances, losses and heat. Making an 18650 pack that can handle 100A load should not be underestimated. Plus the time and effort of matching a couple hundred cells.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by miuan » Jul 24 2015 9:47am

neptronix wrote:The 16AH 6S bricks are not so fortunately shaped; only 3 of them fit into a typical 19" frame bag.
Yesterday I fit five 4S 16Ah packs into the em3ev bag. That is 1.2kWh. There is still room for vertical padding but laterally the bag is pretty full by now.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by riba2233 » Jul 24 2015 3:35pm

Alan B wrote:When comparing a pack to a cell don't forget to add all the interconnect resistances, losses and heat. Making an 18650 pack that can handle 100A load should not be underestimated. Plus the time and effort of matching a couple hundred cells.

There's no need for any kind of matching lol. At least you get cells that are 100% balanced and matched from the factory, straight from the original box. Unlike hobbyking lipo that is never matched to that level.

@neptronix - 30Q and 25R have measured internal resistance of 18 mohm, and I'm sure that multistar don't even come close to 3-4 mohm. You really need to prove that number.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Alan B » Jul 24 2015 3:49pm

The Multistars I've bought have been fairly well matched. The 18650's I've bought for flashlights have been more variable, as have the A123Systems 26650's, though that was some time ago. Sounds like QC is getting better across the board. I recall not long ago that every 18650 cell needed to be tested before building a pack. So that's no longer necessary? 100% perfection?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by riba2233 » Jul 24 2015 4:03pm

Absolutely not, new ones are 100% in balance and matched. I've built many packs, I've never balanced or matched or anything, just weld and use :) Maybe you've bought some chinese cells, I'm talking about brand name cells, only ones that are worth buying - Sanyo/Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sony.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Alan B » Jul 24 2015 4:13pm

Which are made in China?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by riba2233 » Jul 24 2015 4:35pm

I dont know, some left no name brands. Ok, there are some like brands like tensai etc but nothing serious. Panasonic has some factories in china bit those are still japanese cells.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by neptronix » Jul 24 2015 9:47pm

eTrike wrote:I'm thinking of getting some of these Multistar...I want an easy plug and play pack and am expecting about 3C peak, 0.5C nominal. Thoughts?
Your demands don't require a multistar, but you would see amazing discharge efficiency and cycle life with a setup like that. A samsung 30Q pack from luna cycles would be work well for you, if you could afford them.

Otherwise, a multistar will be cheaper and probably have a longer cycle life. It is going to be just a bit heavier, but their 190whrs/kg is still nice. It's not plug and play, since these packs are unsafe if mistreated. Go read my RC Lipo faq in the battery section to see if you can handle it.

riba2233: you seem to have laid down a challenge to prove that the multistars are as strong as i think they are.
You're in luck. I actually have 3 multistar cells from icecube47 sitting in my garage. I planned on using them for safety testing, but never got around to it. I think these are 8ah cells from the 16ah pack ( which is 2p? )
I can go do an IR test this weekend for ya..
I got one question for ya though:

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by neptronix » Jul 25 2015 1:08am

Thanks for the info.
Considering that these are 10AH packs, then seeing about 2.1mOhm average is right in line with it being half the IR of my turnigy 20C, since my turnigy 20C is around 2mOhm for a 5AH pack.

44 cycles to 2/3rds of capacity is very bad. I assume that he was using them around 4-6C since his flight time was 12 minutes.
Running a RC Lipo at half it's C rate continuously does work it pretty hard.

Now i really want to buy a pack and do a long term cycle life test on it and find out the truth about cycle life.
I can't easily find any other info on da 'net.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by icecube57 » Jul 25 2015 1:23pm

4C is over my recommendation of 2.5C constant discharge. We really cant compare RC draw to ebike draw. Its apples and oranges. RC draw is more moderate high amperage constant draw with a few peaks while ebikes is a few peaks with low to moderate draw. Our average draw is well less than 1C over the discharge of the entire pack so to this negative info certain doesnt apply to us. I have 10AH and 16AH packs and have exercised them quite a bit. IR is good no packs are puffy and still giving i would say 95-100% capacity and thats me being hard. I havent confirmed but I dont think there is no capacity loss below nominal. They already gave well over capacity so they might be dropping down to right at nominal.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by tln » Jul 25 2015 1:32pm

eTrike wrote: FWIW the 4S 10000mAh packs are the best deal and are in stock in US atm. I was thinking of ordering 6, 3S2P for one moderate application (lightweight 2wd setup with 2-3C peak, possibly 1.5C peak depending on rear motor, dipping to 0.2C on 'eco' mode ), or 2S3P for a more modest application (ridekick trailer- 1C peak).
The 4s are an incredible deal but the 6s will be more plug and play to make a 12s pack with 2x serial and 2x parallel adaptors available off the shelf. Also 12s chargers seem to have built in adaptors for 2x 6S but not 3x 4s.

And you can use one less Cellog :) I use those too, on my two multistar packs and love em. Did you set up an external alarm?
20150725_112658.jpeg
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by neptronix » Jul 25 2015 3:13pm

miuan wrote:
neptronix wrote:The 16AH 6S bricks are not so fortunately shaped; only 3 of them fit into a typical 19" frame bag.
Yesterday I fit five 4S 16Ah packs into the em3ev bag. That is 1.2kWh. There is still room for vertical padding but laterally the bag is pretty full by now.
I guess that makes sense if you fit them side by side.

My interest is in maximizing space and capacity though. When i saw icecube57 stuff 40AH of 12S into a triangle pack ( 1.8kw-hrs ), i was super impressed, as my current triangle with 15C 5AH 6S Lipo is currently maxed out at 1.1kw-hrs.

Image

You can see icecube57's config in the center of this image.
This image is dated on the topic of high power 18650's though. I suspect that samsung 25Rs may pack a hair more capacity into a triangle bag than the multistars just because of their ability to utilize space better. Never seen anyone do it yet, though.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Offroader » Jul 25 2015 11:16pm

Damn, that is a good deal for the 4s 10,000 packs. It is like 20% cheaper than the 4s 16,000 MAH packs.

I just wished my batteries were in worse shape. I am still lugging around the turnigy 20c 5000 6s packs.

I wonder if it is a trend towards lower lipo prices.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by DAND214 » Jul 26 2015 7:26am

Offroader wrote:Damn, that is a good deal for the 4s 10,000 packs. It is like 20% cheaper than the 4s 16,000 MAH packs.

I just wished my batteries were in worse shape. I am still lugging around the turnigy 20c 5000 6s packs.

I wonder if it is a trend towards lower lipo prices.
Isn't $80 - $40 closer to 50% than 20%? Been out of school for a while and didn't realize things have changed that much :mrgreen:

Yes that is a great deal, WHY? Wish they all would drop like that!

Dan

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Alan B » Jul 26 2015 8:58am

Figure cost per watt-hour, not straight cost.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Offroader » Jul 26 2015 3:53pm

Alan B wrote:Figure cost per watt-hour, not straight cost.
I believe he was just joking?

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by DAND214 » Jul 26 2015 9:40pm

Joking? I never joke with this kinda power.
But yeah I did figure it wasn't price per price.
Either way, I love my 1600mah packs. Much easier than the 5000 packs.
Got 4 6s 1600 when they first released them and they are still staying well balanced bulk charged. Now trying to go BMS from Bestech and that works well but not too sure I like the 4.2+ as a HVC but they do bleed down to 4.20+-
Only running 12s1p with 40a controller MAC 8t, great power for so little money. 26 x 2.5 hookworms, battery in the lower part of the frame. It's a dream to ride only 31mph but still a ball to ride.

Dan

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by Alan B » Jul 26 2015 11:07pm

I have also found the 16AH packs to be difficult in size for space constrained builds like triangle packs or fitting under the Greyborg frame covers. The 8AH packs worked out much better under the Borg's hood. I managed to fit 18S4P of the 6S8AH packs for over 2kWH, and that is without the large lower battery space that was already taken with the large Sabvoton 24FET Sinewave controller. The resulting system is excellent for range and gives superb control and excellent electric braking as well.

I did pick up a few 16AH packs for less space constrained builds.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by dirkdiggler » Aug 15 2015 12:18pm

They have the 4s 10ah packs for $29 right now. I bought three to try them out. Had to buy some xt90 plugs and willmake a harness for them. Total came to $104 for 48v 10ah and extra plugs. Even cheaper than the 4s 20c hardpacks from hobbyking.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... aff=877196
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by pucksterpete » Aug 15 2015 12:33pm

$26.18 for Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C Hardcase Pack (US Warehouse)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=18631

Get'm for $24.31, clear your HK cookies
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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by icecube57 » Aug 15 2015 1:09pm

I think you missed the whole thing idea. 29 for a 10AH cell vs 24 for a 5AH cell.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by icecube57 » Aug 15 2015 1:12pm

neptronix wrote:
miuan wrote:
neptronix wrote:The 16AH 6S bricks are not so fortunately shaped; only 3 of them fit into a typical 19" frame bag.
Yesterday I fit five 4S 16Ah packs into the em3ev bag. That is 1.2kWh. There is still room for vertical padding but laterally the bag is pretty full by now.
I guess that makes sense if you fit them side by side.

My interest is in maximizing space and capacity though. When i saw icecube57 stuff 40AH of 12S into a triangle pack ( 1.8kw-hrs ), i was super impressed, as my current triangle with 15C 5AH 6S Lipo is currently maxed out at 1.1kw-hrs.

Image

You can see icecube57's config in the center of this image.
This image is dated on the topic of high power 18650's though. I suspect that samsung 25Rs may pack a hair more capacity into a triangle bag than the multistars just because of their ability to utilize space better. Never seen anyone do it yet, though.
I actually got a 16S 58.8v 40AH pack in the same triangle bag... so I think that bumped me over the 2kwh. I ended up using (4) 2s 10AH batteries to fill in the rest of the space.

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by neptronix » Aug 15 2015 3:36pm

icecube57 wrote:I actually got a 16S 58.8v 40AH pack in the same triangle bag... so I think that bumped me over the 2kwh. I ended up using (4) 2s 10AH batteries to fill in the rest of the space.
Holy shit, that is beautiful :mrgreen:
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by pucksterpete » Aug 15 2015 5:12pm

icecube57 wrote:I think you missed the whole thing idea. 29 for a 10AH cell vs 24 for a 5AH cell.

Your right,...what would I do without you
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

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Re: Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

Post by icecube57 » Aug 16 2015 12:56am

I'm discharging a 1 year old Multistar 10ah pack and I'm seeing about an 8% loss in capacity from its original test. If you go by the nominal capacity it's only lost 5%

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