Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

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rolls   10 mW

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Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by rolls » Aug 26 2014 6:21pm

Hi, can anyone tell me a definitive C rate for INR18650-29E cells? I have read 1.5C, 3C, 6C, 8C. Which one?

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Joseph C. » Aug 26 2014 6:28pm

cell_man from EM3EV has them rated for 2C.

The site also says 'it is recommended not to run them at these levels on a routine basis'. From the wording I would imagine that they would prefer 1C continuously with peaks of 2C.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by rolls » Aug 26 2014 6:38pm

That's why I asked. Else where on cell_mans site they are rated 3C max, another site rates them at 3C continuous.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Joseph C. » Aug 26 2014 6:45pm

rolls wrote:That's why I asked. Else where on cell_mans site they are rated 3C max, another site rates them at 3C continuous.
Are you sure? I think you might be mixing them up with the NCM cells.

Edit: I'm going through his batteries now and can only find max 2C rating. He recommends a 40 amp controller on the 25 amp hour pack 1.6 C. On another battery he recommends 1.5 C but the max rating is still 2C.

I'd go with a max of 1.5 C. If they are even remotely close to the Tesla Panasonic batteries they should last two decades or so if you are careful with them.
Last edited by Joseph C. on Aug 26 2014 7:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Russell » Aug 26 2014 6:59pm

From what I've read they are 3C max. In any event you really don't want to run them at that level for very long because the voltage sags significantly under load. For example I have a downtube type battery that is made up of the cells in a 4Px13S arrangement (11Ah) and the voltage will sag 4.5V under a 25A (about 2.3C) load.

There's a test of the cells here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... mAh-(Blue)

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by rolls » Aug 26 2014 7:32pm

From the em3ev site "These new cell types are the High Energy INR18650-29E (NCA Cell, 3C Max rated cell, with approx 2.8Ah nominal Capacity)", but on the same page (small triangle bat) it states "The 29E cell is 2C rated and we recommend a Max of closer to 1.5C.".

As I said previously another site had rated them at 3C continuous, so who is right?

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by flathill » Aug 26 2014 7:49pm

1C continuous max
3C Max short bursts

The C max and continuous C rate all depends on blah blah blah. How long can the burst last? The best thing to go off of is IR when selecting a cell than then determine how long you can burst for by keeping track of cell temps in use. The temp probe needs to be connected to metal not the plastic casing. If the cells are getting too hot at full throttle (for however long your needs are) you selected the wrong cell or didn't make you pack big enough (just add more cells in parallel to distribute the load). If your cells don't every get even warm your pack is heavier than it needs to be and you should have selected a higher energy cell rather than a higher power cell, but at least you can always fix that problem with a bigger motor/controller

Be aware a battery has a lot of thermal mass and peak temp has a delay

What we really need is a third input for battery temps on our controllers or cycle analyst.

7.4 Initial internal impedance
Initial internal impedance measured at AC 1kHz after Standard charge.
Initial internal impedance ≤ 45mΩ

SAMSUNG SDI Confidential Proprietary
Spec. No. INR18650-29E Version No. 1.1

1. Scope
This product specification has been prepared to specify the rechargeable lithium-ion cell
('cell') to be supplied to the customer by Samsung SDI Co., Ltd.
2. Description and Model
2.1 Description Cell (lithium-ion rechargeable cell)
2.2 Model INR18650-29E
3. Nominal Specifications
Item Specification
3.1. Nominal Capacity 2,850mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
3.1.1. Typical Capacity 2,850mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
3.1.2. Minimum Capacity 2,750mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
3.2. Charging Voltage 4.20 ± 0.05 V
3.3. Nominal Voltage 3.65V (0.2C discharge)
3.4. Charging Method CC-CV
(constant voltage with limited current)
3.5. Charging Current Standard charge: 1,375mA
3.6. Charging Time Standard charge: 3hours
3.7. Max. Charge Current 2750mA (not for cyclelife)
3.8. Max. Discharge Current 2,750mAh (continuous discharge)
8250mAh (not for continuous discharge)
3.9. Discharge Cut-off Voltage 2.50V
3.10. Cell Weight (max. (g)) 48g
3.11. Cell Dimension Diameter(max.) : 18.40 mm
Height(max) : 65.00 mm
3.12. Operating Temperature
(Cell Surface Temperature)
Charge: 0 to 45°C
Discharge: -20 to 60°C
3.13. Storage Temperature
1 year : -20~25°C (1*)
3 months : -20~45°C (1*)
1 month : -20~60°C (1*)
Note (1): If the cell is kept as ex-factory status (50% of charge),
The capacity recovery rate is more than 80%.



note after storing them at 45C for 3 months at half charge they only guarantee 80% of initial capacity
Last edited by flathill on Aug 26 2014 8:07pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Joseph C. » Aug 26 2014 7:52pm

rolls wrote:From the em3ev site "These new cell types are the High Energy INR18650-29E (NCA Cell, 3C Max rated cell, with approx 2.8Ah nominal Capacity)", but on the same page (small triangle bat) it states "The 29E cell is 2C rated and we recommend a Max of closer to 1.5C.".

As I said previously another site had rated them at 3C continuous, so who is right?
Ah ha, I was wondering which page it was on. Yeah, I'd be pretty confident that is a mistake and he meant 2C max. The 1.5C is what I would go with regardless. The specs that the manufacturer give are often optimistic.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 26 2014 11:35pm

Just be kind. I run a A123 20ah pack at 30 a. But 40 would fine.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by riba2233 » Aug 27 2014 2:26am

Correct answer is 1c continuous, 3c peak. 2c continuous - probably not ok? But in short intervals, it shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by melodious » Aug 27 2014 7:59am

What motor & controller will these cells be used on? At what speeds?
Terrain type & topography?
Style of bike (i.e. MTN, bent)?
Will you be carrying loads of gear?

The first year I ran my 50v 25ah 29E's @18-25amps continuous with some off the line spurts & small hills closer to 30-40amps. Still too soon in my battery's lifespan if I have degraded them, but highly highly doubt it. I'm still getting the same resting voltages after a full charge. And the small 3-4 volt sag has always been present since purchase. The sag resolves itself once the load is off.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by LikeToRideMyBike » Feb 05 2016 3:18am

So what is the continuous c rating for a 52v14.5ah Samsung 29e pack with a 30a bms; using a motor with a 25amp controller? And how did you come up with this figure? I'm sorry for interrupting this discussion with this question... I'm getting so frustrate because for days I've been trying to figure out the equation for how to get the continuous c rating of any given battery pack... I'm a bit lost. :oops:

But I know I need to run these Samsung 29e cells between 1 and 2c. I've learned that much from this discussion.

thanks

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by wesnewell » Feb 05 2016 4:21am

Samsung rates the 29E cells at 2.75A continuous and 8.25A burst. That equates to 0.95C continuous and 2.85C burst using the rated capacity of 2.9ah. Anything else is just BS someone has made up. I wouldn't run them over 1C for any length of time if you want them to last.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by riba2233 » Feb 05 2016 7:07am

Each cell can do 5A cont. without problems, and 10A as short burst. Coming from a guy who tested them and uses them for almost 2 years in el. moped (224 cells).
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by wesnewell » Feb 05 2016 1:31pm

There may not be any noticeable physical problem, but you can be sure there is an internal problem. Eventually he will notice a decreased capacity and premature failure compared to cells that are run within the specs. To me, that's a problem.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by riba2233 » Feb 05 2016 5:16pm

Yeah, the pack should be sized so that the cells don't give high currents all the time, but occasional bursts are no problem at all.
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by www.recumbents.com » Feb 05 2016 6:28pm

Like2ridemybike - If you want to play it safe and run at 1C, this means you should run at 1x your pack's ah rating of 14.5 ah, or about 15 amps continuous. 2C would be 2 X 14.5 = 29A.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 05 2016 7:33pm

There's a lot better cells out there get a 10amp cell or better.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 05 2016 9:52pm

INR18650-29E spec sheet - from Samsung

≤.5C charge
1C maximum charge (with severe cycle life deterioration!)
≤1C continuous discharge
≤3C brief surge
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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Perth_ebiker » Aug 21 2017 11:12pm

Joseph C. wrote:
rolls wrote:That's why I asked. Else where on cell_mans site they are rated 3C max, another site rates them at 3C continuous.
If they are even remotely close to the Tesla Panasonic batteries they should last two decades or so if you are careful with them.
2 decades ???

I cycle my batteries (30q cells daily) and expect around 700-1000 cycles. I got 4 years out of my last pack but that was before I rode everyday. I only charge to 4.1v

How many cycles would you guys expect out of cells these days ?

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Pajda » Aug 22 2017 11:23am

Perth_ebiker wrote: How many cycles would you guys expect out of cells these days ?
It depends mainly on average DoD. Generally from my tests I can say that after 1000 cycles at 50% DoD with 0,5C-1C rate almost all modern 18650 cells still have more than 90% of their initial capacity. If I have a look at currently running test of Samsung INR18650-29E so it have 96,5% of initial capacity after finished 250 cycles.

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Re: Samsung INR18650-29E C rate

Post by Ceko » Dec 19 2018 4:56am

Hello guys. Admiration for the knowedge of this board. Apologize for my bad english. I need little help.
I bought Razor E300 scooter. It is with 250W 24V motor and old heavy 2 pcs 12v 7Ah batteries.
I plan to upgrade it with 18650 batteries from this site: https://eu.nkon.nl
- Samsung INR18650-29E 2900mAh E7 - 8.25A
or
Panasonic NCR18650PF 2900mAh - 10A

I will write you my plan and questions, hoping someone to help little :-)
So for 24V motor i need ~ 7 x 3,6V batteries. 7P
For max Ah i will put 8 or 9 in a row so i can get for example 8 x 2900mAh ~ 23Ah 8S

My worries are:
1. How can i measure what is the peak consumption of the motor?
2. When i put more batteries in a row, how to calculate the maximum drawing current?
with this example 7p8s
I think if the motor draws /just a assumption/ 20A, devide it to the count of cell in a parallel so 20A/7= less than 3A
So these batteries INR18650-29E 2900mAh E7 - 8.25A will be ok? Or should i buy batteries with more drawing current 10A, 15A?
Thanks in advance!

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