Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Hillhater » May 27 2016 1:59am

But the op wanted to adjust the lipo charge voltage,...which he is saying is possible,..4.18 - 4.30v !
So where is the problem ??
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mkp007   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Nov 11 2016 2:02am

I would like an update on how these batteries are holding up after 50+ cycles. Anyone?

The link below shows a teardown of a smaller Multistar battery. You can see the cells are flat and rectangular similar to cell phone batteries. Any thoughts on how these cells compare to 18650 in terms of durability and endurance? I have been interested in the 10A 3.5Ah Panasonic GA cells. But this 16Ah multistar has caught my attention especially at the current price. If I'm looking to pull 50A from this 16Ah multistar, can I expect a cool long lasting battery with little voltage drop?
http://www.electric-skateboard.builders ... er/1415/73

Here are other posts related to this subject:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=62932
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=32980
https://endless-sphere.com/forums//view ... 5#p1164745


FYI: I have no expierence with HK yet but from the reviews they seem to be a mess. My guess is there return/warranty rate is like 30%. Mostly UK buyers complain due to unexpected duty fees. Anyone in the US have additional fees they weren't expecting? Do these batteries ship from China? I haven't read too many bad things about the multistar as long as you keep it well within 10C.
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.hobbyking.com
Last edited by mkp007 on Nov 12 2016 3:41pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bionicdan   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Nov 11 2016 12:34pm

I managed over a year on one set of 16ah and they still balance nicely and pump 60 amp bursts. But...Iv had one self discharge from day one and two have a cell die so I had to weed out two bad packs from 6. I put around 250 cycles on the good ones and still going.

Always run from 3.7v-4.17v.

So if you get a good one they seem ok.

All my 20ah ones need extensive balancing each ride since I recently started drawing 60amps/3c. Two cells only give 15ah after 100 cycles but I suspect I didnt pad them enough because this time the problem cells have been the outer ones that are taking the weight. The 20ah ones never seemed as perky as the 16s (20ah=6s1p /16ah=6s2p?). I also had two out of 6 packs arrive with 1 self discharging cell.

Id say these are a good lazy way of making compact modular Interchangeable packs. But they havnt lasted me long for whatever reasons and would like to try a 18650 pack for reliability next. I think you will be unlikely to find ones matched enough to bulk charge and spend allot of money on cellpro chargers plus time balancing cells.
Last edited by bionicdan on Nov 12 2016 3:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by motomech » Nov 11 2016 10:55pm

FYI: I have no expierence with HK yet but from the reviews they seem to be a mess. My guess is there return/warranty rate is like 30%. Mostly UK buyers complain due to unexpected duty fees. Anyone in the US have additional fees they weren't expecting? Do these batteries ship from China? I haven't read too many bad things about the multistar as long as you keep it well within 10C.
So are you in Europe(profile please)?
If not, why are you wasting your time w/ that sketchy site over there. It seems to me that many of the reviews are from a core of haters that have some sort of vendetta against HK.

Perhaps the LiPoly Gods have been smiling on me, but I have been regularly buying LiPoly from HK since early '11 and have never had a bad cell, let alone a bad brick. First Zippy Flightmax, then Turnigy 20 and 25C and now Multistar.
There are no duties accessed for US end-users and HK maintains two warehouses INSIDE the US. I usually receive my
orders within a week. I do my homework and never have to ask HK a tech. question, so I can't comment on how knowledgeable their sales staff are, bit at least they are there.
So is HK perfect? No, they are often out of stock of items and their website is somewhat obtuse, made even more so by the recent site revamp. But w/ that revamp, came an across the board reduction of battery prices to the tune of 10 to 20%.
Bottom line, there is nobody that can compare to HK's variety of products and low prices. Or to put it more succinctly, there is no one else, period.
As to whether or not Multistar will meet your performance requirements, I would suggest you research the posts of icecube57, who has done documented dis-charge testing.
And bare in mind, Multistar trades dis-charge capacity for lighter weight and smaller form factor. Great for us low-power users, maybe not so much for you.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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mkp007   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Nov 12 2016 3:59pm

motomech wrote: So are you in Europe(profile please)?
If not, why are you wasting your time w/ that sketchy site over there. It seems to me that many of the reviews are from a core of haters that have some sort of vendetta against HK.
I'm in California (profile updated :wink: ). Is European HK site different? I only ask because you said "that sketchy site over there". It does seem that there are a bunch of haters. I know that Traxxas hates them as they filed a lawsuit over connectors.

I spoke with HK's CS and they said this battery will come from their Hong Kong warehouse. Customs duties will apply. Here is the transcript:
Operator Jonas has joined the chat.
[03:49:17] Jonas: Hi! Welcome to HobbyKing Live Chat Support. This is Jonas assisting you. How may I help you?
[03:50:16] Mark: Hi, wondering about the availability of the multistar 4S 16Ah battery
[03:51:09] Mark: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -pack.html
[03:51:31] Jonas: From what country are you Sir?
[03:51:55] Mark: USA, west coast. I know it says in stock but if I order 36 units, is that in stock
[03:56:23] Jonas: As I have checked, this is only available on our International Warehouse.
[03:56:31] Jonas: Are you planning to order it from here?
[03:57:25] Mark: When I use the estimate shipping feature, it gives me a total for shipping. Will there be any other charges such as duties that I will need to pay for?
[03:58:50] Jonas: If it will came from our International Warehouse/ HongKong warehouse.
[03:59:04] Jonas: Yes, there will be a custom charges from your local customs.
[03:59:40] Jonas: Kindly take note that our product prices don’t include customs taxes imposed by your government. Hobbyking.com only charges you with the product cost and shipping cost during checkout. All customs tax will be charged and collected by your respective customs offices once your parcel arrives in your country.
[04:00:50] Mark: Any idea on how much those are?
[04:03:34] Jonas: I don't have the calculation of that on my end. But you can ask your local customs for the calculation of your customs taxes.
Mark

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by motomech » Nov 12 2016 9:51pm

36 units :shock:
What are you building?
I have never heard of a "tax" imposed by US Customs and think the sales person is incorrect.
Either way, let is know how the transaction works out.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Daim11   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Daim11 » Nov 19 2016 4:28pm

I've made a few purchases from the UK, Canada Ect. They all say the same thing, you may be charged tax by your Customs and I have never been charged tax by our customs. I am also on the West Coast USA.

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mkp007   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Nov 20 2016 5:43pm

Daim11 wrote:I've made a few purchases from the UK, Canada Ect. They all say the same thing, you may be charged tax by your Customs and I have never been charged tax by our customs. I am also on the West Coast USA.
I just bought 10 units so we'll see. I plan on testing each one individually to see if there are any duds. From what I've read I'm optimistic. At 3C, there was no reduction in capacity compared to 1C. ref: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 75#p997783. I bought the iCharger 308Duo so that I can charge and balance four of the 4S batteries at the same time. It connects to logview for data capture. http://www.icharger.co.nz/manuals/308DUO.pdf.

I'm wondering now what the best way is to wire these together in series and parallel. Let's take a 4Sx4P array of the 4S 16Ah packs. Should I wire 4 packs in series and then connect 4 of these groups in parallel?

FYI: I started a new thread to discuss RC LiPo vs 18650 Cell packs here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=84949
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Sunder » Nov 20 2016 7:20pm

mkp007 wrote:I just bought 10 units so we'll see. I plan on testing each one individually to see if there are any duds.
Goodluck. I bought 10 units.

1 was 15700 - discharge cut off due to one cell hitting 2.99v when the other 3 were still over 3.30
1 was 16700 (Not sure if this was an anomaly, as I charged and discharged this on a warmer day than the rest 34*C day vs mid to low 20s)
8 were between 16035 and 16350 - Most cut off when the first cell hit 2.99, with the other cells around 3.15-3.20v. Given the steepness of the curves there, I would say that the cells overall were VERY well matched.

I only needed 9 packs, so I excluded the one with the weak cell, and am in the process of making a 36S pack that
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Hillhater » Nov 20 2016 7:29pm

Sunder, you should try a warranty replacement for that out of balance pack.
HK are usually fairly good at dud replacements...and they are relatively local to us.
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Sunder » Nov 20 2016 8:12pm

To be honest, for $50USD, couldn't be bothered. It's seriously only 2% out of spec. I'm pretty sure I can find a use for it anyway.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Nov 21 2016 2:20am

Thinking of ways to charge and balance four 4S packs at once. I just purchased the 308Duo charger http://www.icharger.co.nz/manuals/308DUO.pdf and it can charge and balance two 8S packs. So I just need some adapter cables like shown below. Does anyone see a problem with doing this?

Image

edit: I ended up returning the 308Duo buying the 4010Duo because it has more power output and I got it for a great price from powerhobby.com ($273 w/ shipping and 10%off coupon).
Last edited by mkp007 on Dec 05 2016 11:02am, edited 3 times in total.
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bionicdan   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Nov 22 2016 2:00pm

these got knocked down to £8 recently. Just got mine. I wonder if 10c really means 3c max, will these saying 2c be more like 1c lol?

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -pack.html

Image
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Sunder » Nov 22 2016 7:38pm

£8? Why don't they just give them away. That's insane.

From the reviews I read, the 10C is genuine for about 30 cycles. That's about all serious drone enthusiasts expect out of a pack.

The 16A packs apparently are a little better, as they are made from 2 x 8ah cells, rather than one large cell. This is even considering drawing 160a rather than 120a.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Hillhater » Nov 22 2016 9:44pm

bionicdan wrote:these got knocked down to £8 recently. Just got mine. I wonder if 10c really means 3c max, will these saying 2c be more like 1c lol?

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -pack.html

Image
I have used those before. They perform like a similar capacity laptop 18650 pack would,...noticable sag at 2-3C discharge.
...but a damm sight cheaper, as well as simpler to assemble and install !
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Nov 23 2016 6:30am

Ah yes after 50 cycles my 20ah multi stars now have half the grunt of my much older 16ah ones.

I was thinking 2s2p 24ah 60v on speed mode 2 on my 60a controller with mxus 4t. Hopefully that would cruise within these batteries limits for a 45 mile long range coastal ride.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Jestronix » Nov 23 2016 7:30am

Multistars never lasted for me, out of my 12 packs I bought I have 5 left, I ran them at bursts of 10-15 C :) they did maybe 30 cycles :) they were fun though :) 14kw bursts sure do light up ya day :) I should have gone nano tech at the time, 3-4 c is their real safe output level. 18650 these days and they are getting better by the day.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kingjamez » Nov 28 2016 9:05am

These packs appear to be on sale right now for $72.00. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... -pack.html


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mkp007   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Dec 05 2016 1:50am

I received my 10 packs 4S 16Ah multistar batteries about a week ago and have been anxious to put them to a storage charge level. They all came in at about 15.0V with each cell at 3.75V. Almost every pack had each cell withing 2mV! Out of 10 packs, none were duds. Pretty happy about that. Also, I incurred no additional shipping fees and shipping was quite fast considering they shipped from China.

Also, I have my 4010 Duo charger up and running. I liked this charger because I can balance charge 4 packs at once. Doing so requires putting two in series for each channel. The charger has two channels of 10S capabilities. I will only use 8S per channel during balancing. I'm balance my first two packs to 3.85V as I type this. I did have a newbie moment though and I'm writing this to hopefully help others who want to series charge for balancing purposes. The below four graphics should help. The first is how the two 4S batteries are connected in series. The next is how you connect it to the charger to minimize spark issues (per Junsi). The 3rd image shows the packs connected to the charger and being charged to storage voltage. The 4th shows the series balance board. It is important to realize that the two boards the charger comes with puts the batteries in series. When you hook the battery terminals in series, you have to get the polarity correct with the balance lines or else you will fry something. I screwed this up a first. I even checked the voltage and it showed 30V and then I put the connector together!! So dumb. destroyed the XT90 connector. Luckily it didn't do much else. The balance board also got fried but that was an easy fix. Anyways, check before you connect if you are unsure. It is so easy to screw this type of connection up. I need to figure out a way to mark the connectors and balance board to make it easier to not screw up.

Image

Image

Image

Image

iCharger 4010 Duo Support Page: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpos ... ostcount=1
good review: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... Duo-Review
The manual: http://www.icharger.co.nz/manuals/4010DUO.pdf
Last edited by mkp007 on Dec 05 2016 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by motomech » Dec 05 2016 9:33am

Actually, the diagrams are not exactly correct, but the pic.s are.
It helps to remember that electricity "flows" backwards, neg. to pos. Therefore, the #1 balance lead is the first neg. associated w/ the the first cell that receives the neg. main lead and everything follows from that.
I don't want to make this more confusing, so I will just say that noobies to this should use a balance adapter board that will do what one is trying to accomplish w/out to many adapter leads, like the one that came w/ this nice Duo charger.
Also, when connecting everything up the first time, touch the connectors together gently before pushing them together.

If you don't mind, what is your final pack configuration and use? It may be useful for you to think about a bulk charger in addition to the balance charger.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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mkp007   100 mW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by mkp007 » Dec 05 2016 10:56am

motomech wrote:Actually, the diagrams are not exactly correct, but the pics are. It helps to remember that electricity "flows" backwards, neg. to pos. Therefore, the #1 balance lead is the first neg. associated w/ the the first cell that receives the neg. main lead and everything follows from that.
Ok, so in the charger, when it refers to "cell 1" it is specifically looking at the far right cell? Below is a revised illustration. Do you agree with it? (I updated the previous post images to avoid confusion)

Image
motomech wrote: when connecting everything up the first time, touch the connectors together gently before pushing them together.
Use a multi-meter and check the voltage between contacts prior to touching them if you are not sure. If there is a voltage there then something is not correct. Plug the balance leads to the balance board first, and then check the voltage between contacts of the battery plugs. But what motomech said is correct, "the #1 balance lead is the first neg. associated w/ the the first cell that receives the neg. main lead and everything follows from that", if you get this correct you will be fine.
motomech wrote: If you don't mind, what is your final pack configuration and use? It may be useful for you to think about a bulk charger in addition to the balance charger.
I do plan to bulk charge in parallel. The pack will be either 20Sx3P or 20Sx4P so there are 15-20 of these 4S packs. I'm in the process of designing the harness and I'm not sure the what the best approach is. My current plan is to make sub-packs of parallel packs and then connect these in series. So in the case of 20Sx4P, there will be 4 packs bundled together and wired in parallel. There would be 5 of these sub-packs that would be connected in series.
Mark

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