Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Russell » Sep 24 2014 10:59am

kudos wrote:
Russell wrote:Made up a harness so I could use a 12S BMS to balance the pack (I won't be using other functions for now);
What BMS are you using Russell?

Cheers,
Kudos
It is this BMS from BMSBattery;

http://www.bmsbattery.com/smart/330-lif ... eries.html

I purchased it (w/20-40A option) several years ago when I first got LiPo but never used it. Unfortunately it didn't seem to balance the cells the way I had it connected. I hooked it up fully but it would not charge through the normal path. I removed it and once again am relying on the BM's.


-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Russell » Sep 24 2014 5:21pm

Re-configured the wiring with just one output and the precharge connector;
IMAGE029 (2).JPG
IMAGE029 (2).JPG (82.11 KiB) Viewed 4944 times
Weight as shown is 9 lbs 5 oz (4.2kg)

Went out for a ride on my Townie with the Multistar 16000;

Stats:

Distance: 18.0 mi
Average speed 22.5 mph

Wh used: 495.6
Ah used: 10.742 (67% of rated)

Wp: 1296
Ap: 26.55

Vrest: 45.25
Vmin: 44.04

Wh/mi: 27.5

-R

PS, here is a pic of the resting voltages after the ride above;
IMAGE038 (2).JPG
IMAGE038 (2).JPG (82.49 KiB) Viewed 4938 times
Last edited by Russell on Sep 24 2014 5:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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grindz145   100 MW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by grindz145 » Sep 24 2014 5:54pm

Man, these are great, price is great, and you can make a killer 24s pack for under 500 bucks... ~1kwh Killer.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by 1KW » Sep 25 2014 1:13am

i just got 3 in, ordered them sunday night, received them today wednesday. Cycling them now, so far 2 out of 3 are good. 18s16ah pack for under 400 bucks..

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kudos » Sep 25 2014 2:28am

1KW wrote:i just got 3 in, ordered them sunday night, received them today wednesday. Cycling them now, so far 2 out of 3 are good. 18s16ah pack for under 400 bucks..
In what way is one of them not 'good' ? What do you mean by that? A weak cell or not stated capacity ?

I should be getting two of these today myself....

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB Frame: Mac 8T 40A 49V 32Ah

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striker54   100 W

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by striker54 » Sep 25 2014 3:08am

kudos wrote:
1KW wrote:i just got 3 in, ordered them sunday night, received them today wednesday. Cycling them now, so far 2 out of 3 are good. 18s16ah pack for under 400 bucks..
In what way is one of them not 'good' ? What do you mean by that? A weak cell or not stated capacity ?

I should be getting two of these today myself....

Kudos

I think 1KW only tested 2 pack and is still cycling the third pack.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kudos » Sep 25 2014 3:19am

striker54 wrote:
kudos wrote:
1KW wrote:i just got 3 in, ordered them sunday night, received them today wednesday. Cycling them now, so far 2 out of 3 are good. 18s16ah pack for under 400 bucks..
In what way is one of them not 'good' ? What do you mean by that? A weak cell or not stated capacity ?

I should be getting two of these today myself....

Kudos

I think 1KW only tested 2 pack and is still cycling the third pack.
Ah yes of course! I didn't read it that way.

Thanks striker54
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Sep 25 2014 3:49am

KINNINVIEKID wrote:My batteries arrived at 4pm today.
Not bad seeing as I ordered them at 7.33 last night and they have come from the other end of the country!
They are in perfect shape apart from the corner of one label is not stuck down right.
Luckily the connections were down the side rather than underneath these.
I will get them connected up this evening and see what the cells are like for balance.
Not too bad......The other pack were ALL at 3.95 :D

Image

Making up a pc power supply for my charger this morning as the 5 amp supply I tried last night only let them charge at 2.1A which is way too slow.
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by teslanv » Sep 25 2014 9:02am

Here's some power supply options for you:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=61539
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by dnmun » Sep 25 2014 12:21pm

it would be useful if someone opened the shrink wrap so we can see how the tabs are connected to each other.

the nanotech packs have the aluminum tab crimped to the copper tab of the next cell so it is virtually impossible to take them apart and use the individual cells in the middle of a pack as replacement so knowing how the tabs are connected will help form opinions about how easy to repair or to assemble into a regular pack with compression.

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bionicdan   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Sep 25 2014 9:13pm

KINNINVIEKID wrote:
KINNINVIEKID wrote:My batteries arrived at 4pm today.
Not bad seeing as I ordered them at 7.33 last night and they have come from the other end of the country!
They are in perfect shape apart from the corner of one label is not stuck down right.
Luckily the connections were down the side rather than underneath these.
I will get them connected up this evening and see what the cells are like for balance.
Not too bad......The other pack were ALL at 3.95 :D


Making up a pc power supply for my charger this morning as the 5 amp supply I tried last night only let them charge at 2.1A which is way too slow.
If your psu is 12v I think thats all you will get as your doubling the voltage? Iv just tried hobbykings 540w 12-18v 30a psu's with the newest turnigy reaktor 20a mini balance charger and cellpro 10s xp. The psu's sound like huge hair dryers and stink to start with, but loving the sheer value of the turnigy charger. 13amps max on 18v into 6 cells packs.

Hobbyking said they will review how they place the plug after seeing the dent in 7 of my brand new packs. They only padded one side of the box containing my batteries so its still open to a hammering from one side and the top. They said they will stop putting the plug on the soft side of the battery. What is considered the side on packing becomes god knows what side in the post van.
Last edited by bionicdan on Sep 25 2014 9:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by teslanv » Sep 25 2014 9:29pm

Most RC balance chargers will require at least an 18V Power supply to run at their listed Full Wattage. THis is due to the current that must pass through the balance charger. Higher input wattage means lower current for the same total output power.
If you have a 1000W balance charger, you would really only need (2) 12V-500W power supplies run in series to get the maximum output from the charger. So in some cases, like with my 250W iCharger B106+, even a single 12V 700W Server Power supply is way overkill.
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kudos » Sep 27 2014 4:39pm

Mine turned up today.

Image

Image

I also bought a load of xt90 bits and bobs from HK.

2 parallel adaptor leads, a serial lead, charging leads and male/female pairs.

I knocked up this xt90 to Anderson cable even though I hate soldering, which then attaches to the serial cable.

Image

It's nice to have a two battery 16Ah setup.

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
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Build 4 EEB Frame: Mac 8T 40A 49V 32Ah

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Sep 27 2014 8:54pm

kudos wrote:Mine turned up today.


2 parallel adaptor leads, a serial lead, charging leads and male/female pairs.

I knocked up this xt90 to Anderson cable even though I hate soldering, which then attaches to the serial cable.

Image

It's nice to have a two battery 16Ah setup.

Kudos
Just to let you know I think those anderson connectors are the same I had on my amp20 16s lifepo4 pack and they melted :(

I usually pull 10-20 amps but can pull 47 for 30 seconds up big hills.

It melted inside so I had no idea it was constantly wasting battery power as heat as it looked fine on the outside. My controller started getting really really hot and then found out. I put an xt60 on each polarity cable and has been fine since.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kudos » Sep 28 2014 3:38am

Bionicdan,

My mac 10t came with anderssons on the phase leads and all three have melted like you say.

However I'm not convinced they were genuine anderssons. I have replaced the anderssons with genuine connectors and not had a problem since.

In fact I use anderssons extensively, I make good use of iceman's one-block andersson harness design to automatically series/parallel for charge/run and have also never had a problem.

I've got the proper Anderson crimp tool and I can literally cut, strip and crimp a cable in under 2mins so I do like them.

Cheers,
Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB Frame: Mac 8T 40A 49V 32Ah

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Sep 29 2014 9:36am

Finally got my batteries packed up and mounted on the bike today for their first test.
Image
I used a bit of foam for vibration resistance.
Image

A few bungees held it on the Topeak beam rack
Image

And a bit of black wrap to disguise it all!
Image

First thing I did was a half mile WOT on the flat and the bike held steady at 27Mph.
With the 10Ah Headways it did 23.8 so that was a good start.
I dont have my wattmeter yet but noticed that the battery gauge did not drop under load like with the Headways so voltage sag is obviously better as well.

I did 27.8 miles all together and the batteries were at 22.58 volts.
I measured each cell and all were at 3.75 volts so I am more than happy with them.
The current battery mounting is just temporary until my Ibera triangle bag turns up.
http://www.strava.com/activities/201022487/overview
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by 1KW » Sep 29 2014 9:58pm

please let me know how your ibera bag holds up…i have a large size in the kona stinky and can fit 3 packs in there(super tight squeeze with foam)

all 3 of my packs are solid, and will work great for a lower moderate amp discharge rate. Ordered another for 100v16ah @ 25amps limit on controller for a 2.5kw bike.

For the bbs02 these packs are great(might actually sell my entire setup and go with the bbs02 @ 12s16ah on a xc bike and have one pack for backup).

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Massastan » Oct 03 2014 7:54am

Hello. I'm new to this forum and live south of Boston MA in the peoples republic of Massastan. I was looking at this thread for potential use of the Multistar 16Ah battery. I see that the Multistar is listed as having a life of only 300 cycles (per the HobbyKing comments on this pack) vs the bmsbattery site claim of 800 cycles for their LiPo packs, and 2000 cycles for their LiFePO4 packs. This would put a cost multi[plier of 3X to 6X on the Multistar packs, making them much more expensive in the long run. I understand the LiFePO4 multiplier, but not the BMS LiPo 800 cycle claim, am I missing something? I have a bunch of RC cars and trucks with a few types of LiPo and other batteries, and a few balance chargers, one being a Hyperion Eos 730i Net3 30a 550w. If I went with the Multistar, I would just charge each of two packs individually. I just picked up a used Schwinn Trailway with a AMPed front direct drive conversion, without batteries. I replaced the home made rack with a Bontrager, and will be looking for novel ways to package the controller and 2 16Ah packs. Something like a vented wicker fishing basket with a Big Mouth billy bass talking singing fish, or Lucky or Rocky the singing lobster on top. The controller has a 31.5V cutoff which equates to 31.5/12= 2.63v/cell. Also, is there anyone in my area to talk to? I visit the Hobby Shop in Foxboro MA to listen to people with the $20k+ multirotors to catch up on the technology and all the components that go into them. These batteries are a new topic.
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Oct 06 2014 12:20pm

Massastan wrote:Hello. I'm new to this forum and live south of Boston MA in the peoples republic of Massastan. I was looking at this thread for potential use of the Multistar 16Ah battery. I see that the Multistar is listed as having a life of only 300 cycles (per the HobbyKing comments on this pack) vs the bmsbattery site claim of 800 cycles for their LiPo packs, and 2000 cycles for their LiFePO4 packs. This would put a cost multi[plier of 3X to 6X on the Multistar packs, making them much more expensive in the long run. I understand the LiFePO4 multiplier, but not the BMS LiPo 800 cycle claim, am I missing something? I have a bunch of RC cars and trucks with a few types of LiPo and other batteries, and a few balance chargers, one being a Hyperion Eos 730i Net3 30a 550w. If I went with the Multistar, I would just charge each of two packs individually. I just picked up a used Schwinn Trailway with a AMPed front direct drive conversion, without batteries. I replaced the home made rack with a Bontrager, and will be looking for novel ways to package the controller and 2 16Ah packs. Something like a vented wicker fishing basket with a Big Mouth billy bass talking singing fish, or Lucky or Rocky the singing lobster on top. The controller has a 31.5V cutoff which equates to 31.5/12= 2.63v/cell. Also, is there anyone in my area to talk to? I visit the Hobby Shop in Foxboro MA to listen to people with the $20k+ multirotors to catch up on the technology and all the components that go into them. These batteries are a new topic.
300 cycles is assuming your gonna charge them to 4.2v and probably down to 3v. If you charge a bit lower like 4.1v you might see 600+ cycles. I wouldnt recommend you run them down to 2.63v a cell and im not sure your 36v (if thats what it is) controller will take 49v-51v hot off the charger. Id be interested to know if it did though. *just checked the kit and it does say you can use 48v and doesnt mention new controllers needed but its not very clear other than stating it will make the bike illegally fast.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries


http://www.powerstream.com/lithuim-ion- ... oltage.htm
or (search word DOUBLE)
http://powerelectronics.com/site-files/ ... y-life.pdf

I just use the cheap voltage alarms set to 3.5v as I know I have twice the Ah capacity I use on daily rides.
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/st ... tage+alarm

Shame they dont do multistar 5's as I would like to run these at 36v for my Gf's bike.
Last edited by bionicdan on Oct 06 2014 2:37pm, edited 2 times in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by dnmun » Oct 06 2014 12:52pm

is there any documentation to support this claim? the only definitive evidence of charging voltage on life cycles was presented in that professor's lecture on the Tesla board and he only observed that life cycles were related to time spent at full charge. there was nothing said about charging to 4.1V to double life cycles. that is just hypothesis.

to maximize life cycles it is best to leave the pack uncharged until use. i don't think anything else has been demonstrated to double life cycles.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by kudos » Oct 06 2014 12:53pm

Bit of a milestone for me yesterday, one of the things I have wanted to do since I got into ebiking nearly 3 years ago, is do a no-pedal lap of my Island on one charge. Approx 24.5 miles.

Managed to do that with cells still at 3.77V at the end. Loving these high capacity batts.

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB Frame: Mac 8T 40A 49V 32Ah

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bionicdan   1 kW

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by bionicdan » Oct 06 2014 2:08pm

dnmun wrote:is there any documentation to support this claim? the only definitive evidence of charging voltage on life cycles was presented in that professor's lecture on the Tesla board and he only observed that life cycles were related to time spent at full charge. there was nothing said about charging to 4.1V to double life cycles. that is just hypothesis.

to maximize life cycles it is best to leave the pack uncharged until use. i don't think anything else has been demonstrated to double life cycles.
My main point really is that the 300 cycle life is quoted for a battery designed to take peak 10c discharges and expected to be charged to 4.2v every charge to extend flight time. In a bike doing 2c in a well padded box Im pretty sure, for whatever reason, it will do better than 300.

I used the standard charger with a hubsan fpv x4 quadcopter and now my mini lipos all have 70 percent capacity loss after 10 cycles doh. I think it charged them to 4.25v.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Massastan » Oct 06 2014 8:35pm

Now for some creative & stealthy battery and controller packaging. I checked out two ideas...one was to small, the other was to large
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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Motobikewheels » Oct 06 2014 11:34pm

Any buddy codes?

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Re: Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

Post by Emoto » Oct 08 2014 6:40am

bionicdan wrote:I got some of these for adding extra cells in a non messy way. Not sure how good they are as they havnt arrived yet. I soldered my own harness with a silverline gas iron on full and flowed well.
Image
took a shot and this is how they connect quite smart , so you could make your own and improve on using just solder if youve got some lying around.
Good you got on to hk and sorted the packing issue with the connector marking the side of these cells . :mrgreen: what were they thinking .
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