DrInnovation
100 W
Background: I've been running my lashout (600w MAC +rear chain drive) on SLAs for a bit over two months. Two 12v12AH in series came with it; so I don't know their full history.
I use it only uphill, my commute is +300ft and .8 to 1.5 miles depending on the route I take. A few days I run to the local shopping center on the way home, total trip 6miles -- battery never makes that trip LVC cutoff happens before I get home. I also had a problem with my lashout gear (after it came loose while riding.. I just bolted it back on but it was making grinding noises and really ate the battery (I've repacked the gears). The SLAs sit at work uncharged, at at least 5 times I drained them to LVC, including twice when bike was left on and drained them while sitting. I've about 65 charge cycles so far (sometimes 2 a day if I go home midday). I've started feeling the voltage sag compared to when I first got them and its going to start to cool down which will sap the SLA even more. (I'm not bringing them inside, they will stay in the garage at home and outside at school).
Question 1: I was thinking of quantifying the sag.. (I'm a geek).. will a Cell Log 8S work okay for that -- it seems like it can measure pack voltage. I really wanted something that could also measure current draw (but don't want to spend too much on it but happy to consider other solutions.) Also hoping to reuse this if I build a pack as 7 or 8 s will be what I need voltage wise.
Question 2: Would desulfating help extended them enough to justify the expense of the desulfator?
Question 3: Been looking at lithium. I posted about some military batteries before but found out I'm supported to return them to the government and don't really think I can push to 30v base (33 high after charge). The controller is sealed into the motor so I cannot check it out, but I did find some old post saying that the HVC is 30v. So I'll want to design to stay below that.
Question 3: So I'm look at building something of my own now but don't want to do much more that $150 (or my wife will object as I can always just ride a manual the bike was only $250 to start). I know that quality matters to many here, but I see price/quality as a tradeoff and could just stick with SLA which are about $60 to replace but may need more leg energy. My ride is only 2 miles each way but needs a moderate amount of current to get up those hills. I don't want to spend much so been looking at lower end solutions.
I've been looking at three alternatives.
1) LiFEPO4.. self-build.
I've read about the no-name brands and uplabeling, and while I expect that these cells are less than half the spec, I'm thinking they might still be a decent deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-LiFePo4-3-2V-4Ah-battery-for-EV-HEV-Scooter-ebike-etc-16pcs-/251603467408?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3a94bc3c90
This will allow a 8s2p 25.6v "8ah/5C" pack for $125 (delivered) + BMS + charger (which I'll get separately). My ride draws a max of 600w, which requires about 21A @28.8v. I need that for 1-2 min then maybe 5A intermittent usage for the remainder of the trip. The hills are the first part of the trip so I'll be at charge voltage when I start. With the manufacture's specs, a pack with 8s1p of these cells would be rated at 20A continuous, and I'd have 2P, so I'd be just maxing out the motor using just over half the rating. What do people think? Would I toast these like I did the SLA? Anyone have experience with this company (Just Raw Power..)
2) prepacked LiFEPO4, e.g. putting two ZIPPY Flightmax 4200mAh 4S1P 30C LiFePo4 Pack in series. These are "rated" 30C for 120A, so my usage would be even lower at 5C on these 4Ah pack). These don't have a BMS but I add one or maybe just do balance charging when needed and bulk charging hopefully the majority of the time.
3) Lipo such as ZIPPY Compact 5800mAh 7S 25C Lipo Pack (Not sure if the controller can handle 8s Lipos as that is >33v I'm not even willing to risk testing that high). Given the more touchy safety issues with Lipo its my last choice (even if its a bit cheaper).
Even 1 2 or 3 can provide the current not sure how many Ah I'll actually need (depends on the actual draw at the current levels). Especially the prepacked zippy flightmax at 4.2Ah might be light, but any of them might be a too small given that i can drain the 12ah SLAs to the LVC.
4) Build a 18650 pack from used laptop batteries. Definitely cheap but a lot of work and not sure how many I'll need to get 20A out of it.. If I assume 1A per 8s, I'd need 8s20p which is a big pack and a lot of welds. Despite my budget constraint my time is worth a lot more than that -- I'd do a laptop build mostly for the experience/story to tell students and to appease my wife send of what is "necessary".
Did I miss anything in my budget range that might work?
Given these what do people think, should I go for one the 1-3 approaches, or just wait and collect enough 18650 laptop batteries to build one (which seems like a lot more work but would be lower total cost).
I use it only uphill, my commute is +300ft and .8 to 1.5 miles depending on the route I take. A few days I run to the local shopping center on the way home, total trip 6miles -- battery never makes that trip LVC cutoff happens before I get home. I also had a problem with my lashout gear (after it came loose while riding.. I just bolted it back on but it was making grinding noises and really ate the battery (I've repacked the gears). The SLAs sit at work uncharged, at at least 5 times I drained them to LVC, including twice when bike was left on and drained them while sitting. I've about 65 charge cycles so far (sometimes 2 a day if I go home midday). I've started feeling the voltage sag compared to when I first got them and its going to start to cool down which will sap the SLA even more. (I'm not bringing them inside, they will stay in the garage at home and outside at school).
Question 1: I was thinking of quantifying the sag.. (I'm a geek).. will a Cell Log 8S work okay for that -- it seems like it can measure pack voltage. I really wanted something that could also measure current draw (but don't want to spend too much on it but happy to consider other solutions.) Also hoping to reuse this if I build a pack as 7 or 8 s will be what I need voltage wise.
Question 2: Would desulfating help extended them enough to justify the expense of the desulfator?
Question 3: Been looking at lithium. I posted about some military batteries before but found out I'm supported to return them to the government and don't really think I can push to 30v base (33 high after charge). The controller is sealed into the motor so I cannot check it out, but I did find some old post saying that the HVC is 30v. So I'll want to design to stay below that.
Question 3: So I'm look at building something of my own now but don't want to do much more that $150 (or my wife will object as I can always just ride a manual the bike was only $250 to start). I know that quality matters to many here, but I see price/quality as a tradeoff and could just stick with SLA which are about $60 to replace but may need more leg energy. My ride is only 2 miles each way but needs a moderate amount of current to get up those hills. I don't want to spend much so been looking at lower end solutions.
I've been looking at three alternatives.
1) LiFEPO4.. self-build.
I've read about the no-name brands and uplabeling, and while I expect that these cells are less than half the spec, I'm thinking they might still be a decent deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-LiFePo4-3-2V-4Ah-battery-for-EV-HEV-Scooter-ebike-etc-16pcs-/251603467408?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3a94bc3c90
This will allow a 8s2p 25.6v "8ah/5C" pack for $125 (delivered) + BMS + charger (which I'll get separately). My ride draws a max of 600w, which requires about 21A @28.8v. I need that for 1-2 min then maybe 5A intermittent usage for the remainder of the trip. The hills are the first part of the trip so I'll be at charge voltage when I start. With the manufacture's specs, a pack with 8s1p of these cells would be rated at 20A continuous, and I'd have 2P, so I'd be just maxing out the motor using just over half the rating. What do people think? Would I toast these like I did the SLA? Anyone have experience with this company (Just Raw Power..)
2) prepacked LiFEPO4, e.g. putting two ZIPPY Flightmax 4200mAh 4S1P 30C LiFePo4 Pack in series. These are "rated" 30C for 120A, so my usage would be even lower at 5C on these 4Ah pack). These don't have a BMS but I add one or maybe just do balance charging when needed and bulk charging hopefully the majority of the time.
3) Lipo such as ZIPPY Compact 5800mAh 7S 25C Lipo Pack (Not sure if the controller can handle 8s Lipos as that is >33v I'm not even willing to risk testing that high). Given the more touchy safety issues with Lipo its my last choice (even if its a bit cheaper).
Even 1 2 or 3 can provide the current not sure how many Ah I'll actually need (depends on the actual draw at the current levels). Especially the prepacked zippy flightmax at 4.2Ah might be light, but any of them might be a too small given that i can drain the 12ah SLAs to the LVC.
4) Build a 18650 pack from used laptop batteries. Definitely cheap but a lot of work and not sure how many I'll need to get 20A out of it.. If I assume 1A per 8s, I'd need 8s20p which is a big pack and a lot of welds. Despite my budget constraint my time is worth a lot more than that -- I'd do a laptop build mostly for the experience/story to tell students and to appease my wife send of what is "necessary".
Did I miss anything in my budget range that might work?
Given these what do people think, should I go for one the 1-3 approaches, or just wait and collect enough 18650 laptop batteries to build one (which seems like a lot more work but would be lower total cost).