Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by ejonesss » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:32 pm

when you declare gift does it then tell customs that the package is not worth inspecting and it goes through without inspection unless it is of security/anti terror concern?

meaning if enough time goes past with no terrorism then gift may get let through but as soon as a report of terrorism happens or the terror alert goes up a notch then they inspect all packages slowing it down?
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Ypedal » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:36 pm

nothing to do with any of that either.. they inspect anything they want at their own discretion .

google it.
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by ejonesss » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:58 pm

would a bulge in the package give it a suspicion? as if someone packed 6 pounds in a 5 pound box?
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by ejonesss » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:19 pm

i thought one of the rules sais no batteries on passenger flights.

i just saw on cnn today that there may have been some batteries in the cargo compartment of the missing flight.

so how could batteries get abord a passenger flight is the rules sais not to?
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by kaliflower » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:14 pm

ejonesss wrote:i thought one of the rules sais no batteries on passenger flights.

i just saw on cnn today that there may have been some batteries in the cargo compartment of the missing flight.

so how could batteries get abord a passenger flight is the rules sais not to?
The rules for shipping lithium-ion battery are laid out in the IATA recommendation and 49 CFR.

You can carry on up to 2 "spare" li-ion battery > 100Whr in a passenger flight (can't put them in checked baggage). You can ship up to 5kg of li-ion battery per box in a passenger plane if they are declared as Dangerous Goods. There are distinctions for battery by itself, battery inside equipment, and battery shipped with equipment.

If you are just an average joe, you pretty much can't ship any li-ion battery by law. Even then, all these exception REQUIRE the battery to pass UN38.3 testing. If you just make a pack and try to ship it, it will require DG declaration regardless of capacity.

If you bought a commercial pack that is UN38.3 certified, you can ship a battery with up to 25g of lithium content (about 12V 20AH or equivalent for li-ion) by putting a label on the box that says "lithium batteries -forbidden for transport by aircraft and vessel". If you put more than 12 packs in a box, you gotta add the li-ion warning label.

@New_Guy:
The reason why the air shipping is insane is because first of all, you can't air ship any Li-ion > 100whr from US to EU, UPS/Fedex simply won't take it because it's prohibited. Even if you have something that you can ship, you are charged a $60 DG handling fee in addition to the shipping cost. Third, air shipping is charged by dimensional weight. Since you have to use a UN approved box with a lot of padding, the dimensional weight will be somewhere around 30+ pounds. For example, if that battery you mention was allowed for US to EU shipment, it would cost at least $350. Lastly, when you ship by sea you are shipping LTL and buying cargo space, the least of which is 1 cubic meter so $500 is entire fair.

@circuit
UN38.3 testing is a set of 8 tests that you need specific machines for. Testing takes around 1 month and cost around $5000 in the US and about $2000 in Asia. Unless you are a battery manufacturer, you need a lab to do it for you. Without the UN38.3 certification, you can only declare small quantity of "prototype" battery as DG and ship that way.

I would advise you to get familiar with the 49CFR and IATA DGR if you want to ship li-ion battery, the penalties are numerous and stiff.

Source: I work in shipping.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by ejonesss » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:40 pm

anyone up to putting potentially millions on a private jet and going into the delivery business?

i just got a sodastream hom soda maker and at

http://www.sodastreamusa.com/faq.aspx#f8


8. Can I take my carbonator on the plane?
Unless you are traveling in your own private jet, SodaStream advises against carrying carbonators on an airplane. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has restrictions that prohibit compressed gas cylinders in carry-on items as well as in checked baggage.


it seems as private jets are exempt from the rules that apply to public jets.

so if you have a private jet then you can deliver even the most dangerous lithium battery legally since you are only endangering yourself?
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by amberwolf » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:59 pm

I dunno if you could do that; you'd need to check the actual FAA rules about such things to see what they allow in the air at all.

Mind you, you might not have a problem unless someone inpected your plane and found them (like customs who could do it at any airport at any time, AFAIK, or much less likely without warning the FAA itself).

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Drum » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:44 am

Hi All,

I have just ordered batteries for my build, and found an interesting variance between shipping of 5S 5000mAh batteries and 6S 5000mAh:

The 5S batteries (6 or 8 of them) could be shipped in one shipment, but the 6S had to be shipped separately, one battery at a time.
The batteries are Turnigy 20C LiPo's from Hobby King, and this shipping distinction is made by their automated online sales system, and relates to shipment of LiPo's to New Zealand. Quite possibly the same or similar restrictions may apply to any international shipping, or at least to some other countries.

I had read somewhere that batteries over 100Wh capacity are subject to more restrictions than batteries below 100Wh. I had intended to buy six 6S 5Ah batteries and run 18S 2P, but I decided to try the 5S batteries to compare shipping conditions / prices because the 5S 5Ah batteries are below 100Wh nominal.

This shipping issue means it is cheaper for me to buy and ship eight 5S packs than six 6S packs, so now I will be using 20S 2P for my mid drive motor, so I will be able to use lower gearing and lower current to achieve the same performance, and probably get better efficiency as well as greater range.

Just thought I would share this info in case it is of assistance to other forum members.

Dave

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Ohbse » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:40 am

Hey Dave

You might be pissed to know that NZ can now order directly from the aussie warehouse as of today and shipping is vastly reduced in cost. I didn't have an issue adding a dozen batteries to my cart wheras I would have had to split that up in the past coming from the global warehouse.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Drum » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:56 pm

I ordered my batteries AFTER the e-mail arrived from Hobby King about the Australian warehouse.
I clicked on the link provided and proceeded to order from there without leaving that site.
My comments above relate to that situation.. It would not let me ship 6S batteries even two at a time, but 5S it was happy to ship 8 if I wanted to.

Of course, if things changed AFTER I ordered.. then I am annoyed.

There is a Bright Side though.. I will end up with more Watt Hours on my bike than I was planning, which isn't a bad thing. Where I ride, I generally go reasonable distances on "there and back" tracks, and more range opens up more destinations.

I only ordered 4 of the 8 batteries this time, to keep the total price in the range that will hopefully come through Customs without attracting duty and GST. In a couple of weeks time I will order the other 4.. I'll go to the Aussie warehouse again and see if anything has changed.
Dave

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by tumich » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:46 pm

How many cells 18650 can be shipped by plane? It's depends on wH?
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by r3volved » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:57 pm

I think its 'battery capacity' by wh, so individual cells are individual batteries if not connected and a joined 20s pack for example is still one battery just higher wh

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:52 pm

I just bought a butt load of 18650s and they had to be shipped in packages of no more than 3. The mail carrier came up to my door with one of those big coroplast mail bins full of the smaller packages.

It was kind of a pain a ass opening all of them but it was also a little like Christmas :D

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by major » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:35 pm

Ch00paKabrA wrote:I just bought a butt load of 18650s and they had to be shipped in packages of no more than 3. The mail carrier came up to my door with one of those big coroplast mail bins full of the smaller packages.

It was kind of a pain a ass opening all of them but it was also a little like Christmas :D
Interesting. I found this on the USPS web site:

Domestic — Secondary Lithium-ion Cells and Batteries:

Installed in equipment, packed with equipment, or mailed without equipment (individual batteries):

The lithium content must not exceed 20 Wh (Watt-hour rating) per cell.
The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
The mailpiece must not contain more than three batteries.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_031.htm

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by tumich » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:21 pm

By courier GLS I had send 2000Wh in one parcel many times. 5x400Wh (battery li-ion pack's 18650 cells). Soon I will send more cells in one parcel.
GLS probably is one of the best courier in Europe about shipping batteries.
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by circuit » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:57 pm

GLS might be OK for batteries, probably because they have no idea what they are doing. At least in my country they are hopeless at actually delivering in time. Used their services a few times and each time parcels were temporarily lost (no one knew where it is for several days), there were delays and other problems. Later, I had to call in several times and ask them to deliver the package to my address, because it was sitting around in their local warehouse. But that might be worth the trouble if they actually take batteries on board.
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by DANIEL GARCIA » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:23 am

Hello. I'm new in this Forum, and looking all the discussions in a few minutes, I check this is a very interesting Forum about Electric Vehicles.

I have a question about the Shipping Rules.
Is necessary get the UN 38.3 to transport Lithium batteries by truck?
How can I make transport without this rule?
what happened when I have to send a damage battery to my manufacturer?

Thank in advance for your attention, and answers. Bye.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by dnmun » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:39 pm

do not send damaged battery back to manufacturer. that is beyond foolish as well as illegal.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:17 am

major wrote:
Ch00paKabrA wrote:I just bought a butt load of 18650s and they had to be shipped in packages of no more than 3. The mail carrier came up to my door with one of those big coroplast mail bins full of the smaller packages.

It was kind of a pain a ass opening all of them but it was also a little like Christmas :D
Interesting. I found this on the USPS web site:

Domestic — Secondary Lithium-ion Cells and Batteries:

Installed in equipment, packed with equipment, or mailed without equipment (individual batteries):

The lithium content must not exceed 20 Wh (Watt-hour rating) per cell.
The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
The mailpiece must not contain more than three batteries.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_031.htm
Yes, that is correct. Since I was buying individual cells, they had to be shipped in packs of 3. It appears that depending on the ah of the cells, if they are welded either in series or parallel, they can be considered 1 battery. So, if welded in a 4p configuration of Samsung 29E, then I guess you could send 2 pack of 4 as that would still be less than 100Wh

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by zipporobotics » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:40 am

I read pretty much all the thread and I'm still left with some questions

I'm a designer: creating a personal tool to use in my profession. The tool I'm designing needs to integrate two: 20 AH 25.2 volt Batteries for a total of 1008 WH and is designed to be transported in Two rugged flightcases.

I need to travel and carry this tool with me around Europe and America.

My Questions Are.

What type of Batteries should I choose ? Li-ion, Li-po or Lifepo4
Can I stick with Maximum Integration or Do I need to make the Batteries removable ?
If 'Integrated': do i need to design the electronics and battery holders following a specific compliance ?

Everything is ready and I'm going to travel: who should transport my tool ?

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by mrpk » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:19 am

Feel like i just got my pants pulled down on shipping and import tax.
Purchased 4number Turnigy 5000mAh 6 cell Li-Po's from HobbyKing who offered me a good deal and i saved over 4quid each pack. Shipping was then 40quid but then the coup de gras was 55quid import tax - ouch..... im still stinging lol.
Shipping and import tax almost equaled the price of the batteries.
They were interestingly all shipped together in one box??
At least i can finish my build now though.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by circuit » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:25 am

Shipping prices (from china) are now twice bigger than 4 weeks ago. And local agent quoted me two more times more than chinese people.
Battery delivery is now ~3-4 times more expensive than any other goods.
This just got ridiculous.
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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by sh33p » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:00 pm

If one buys a battery in the States, and then has it shipped to a US address, and then they go pick it up themselves, do all these shipping rules apply?

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HobbyKing Battery Shipment has Lithium Warning Labels

Post by Alan B » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:02 pm

Just received my FIRST shipment of lipo batteries from Hobbyking that appears to be Legally Labelled.

And they're not even for an ebike (these are for my Quadrotor).

Anyway, looks like they are getting with the new rules.

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Re: Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

Post by circuit » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:52 am

Guys, I have a problem. Trying to deliver a 8-cell 72Wh lithium battery from EU to Australia. Talked to probably 10 different courier companies and all of them are refusing to deliver. A few said there are some kind of additional limitation for Asutralia and this is whey they would be only able to deliver it a half of the way...

Is it true? Am I missing something?

The battery is packed according to UN 965 to withstand a drop from 1.2 meter and has all necessary short circuit protections and labeling. Of course I am not a certified packer. I have, however, provided a MSDS.

Also, how are all those ebay sellers delivering their batteries?
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