Help with Picking Battery

B

bmac67

10 µW
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
6
Hello all!

First I wanted to say this is my first post, but I have been reading a lot on this forum for a long time. I just ordered my first motor setup. I went with Lightning Rods small block kit. I iwll be using a Lyen 12 FET with a CA3.

I am now trying to find out what would be a good battery that will match this kit. I will say I live in a mainly flat area, plan on commuting to work and back and then doing some single track riding on the weekends. Single track is pretty hilly but nothing crazy. Commute one way is roughly 24 miles. I can charge the battery at work so I am good to go and the ride home. The bike is just a Hardtail Cannondale. I am a only 150lbs. Drivetrain is currently Shimano XT 9 speed.

I have looked at several sources for batteries. I am wondering what to go with. I have talked to a few people but nothing as far as what battery to go with. I was told I will need to run something in the 25ah range @ 48-50v. I am completely new to e-bikes and honestly the more I read up on batteries the more complicated it gets. I could really use some help.

Also are there vendors here in the USA that sell good packs? The thought of spending 150-180 in shipping ( from china ) seems crazy to me with the high cost of the battery on top of that. So far everything I am seeing is coming in at just over a grand for a battery. Is that in the ballpark?

Is building a pack out for a first timer? I know and understand wiring and soldering, but never took on something like building a pack. I would love to do it, just not sure if I should. I have read several posts from people saying never to build a pack because of the dangers involved etc...

Thanks for reading and thanks for any help anyone can spare.

-bmac
 
For the off road riding, you really need that battery as small as possible. While it's quite possible to have a good handling ride with 15 pounds of battery on the bike, it's just going to be much nicer to ride off road with more like half that.

25 ah, especially a lifepo4 pack, is going to be quite heavy. Wouldn't a sun thing 48v 25 ah weigh 20-25 pounds or something like that?

You will need a fairly large battery for the commute, especially if you do it pretty fast. But think in terms of two batteries perhaps, so you can ride with just half the weight when you go to dirt.

One light , small, but expensive 48v 10 ah? (like from em3ev or something) That's for the dirt, no more than 8 to 10 pounds or so. Then also carry a cheaper 48v 15 ah lifepo4 for the commute?
 
If you want simple and safer route, just get triangle battery from em3ev.

If you want to play around and have more flexibility, you can build your own pack. But I think cost is similar with all the accessories you need to buy. One thing cool about building your own pack is that you can easily bump up the voltage.

I ride offroad a lot. You have to careful with lipos if building your own pack because of all the bumps.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I am just going to have to read some more on batteries. Some much to learn. I hate the thought of spending 1k on a pack and not having the correct one.
 
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302
 
my 2cents, how I would choose.

Firstly amps. How small can the battery be to deliver? I'm guessing you'd target a max 40a draw on that setup with 48v.

I think that means with non-lipo you need 20ah just to safely get that draw, so you're looking at one larger pack then.

I am trying lipo. Mine is up to 30c discharge, so even a 5ah batt will comfortably deliver up to 100amps.

Then consider range. I am opting for two separate 5lb 72v packs 5- 6ah each to suit my max requirement but allow flexibility/veratility.
For about 48 volts the min in lipo would be 3x 4s 5ah 20c, about 75$. Quadruple if you need to have 20ah for the range.

Calculating watt hours will help figure the differences in range, but Idk enough there.

you should be aware of the dangers of lipo vs the rest, because that is the downside of it.

edit- btw hobbyking.com for lipo, choose usa warehouse- cheap fast shipping.
 
I mine 1,000 usd. for a complete setup bms ,charger, with case or bag with shipping to the door.
Ping and others you still need to make case and backets ect. ( $ ).
 
Looks like I will either go with the EM3Ev.com unit or the maybe see what allcell has. I like the idea of buying a US made pack and doesn't require 8+ weeks for delivery plus other fees, but I don't know how they stack up against the EM3EV packs.

Then I see posts on guys building lipo packs for a fraction of the cost, but them seem to complex for a first time rider. But it sure is tempting to try. But for the time being until I learn some more on batteries I would like a more plug and play setup.

Does anyone have any advise on allcell's batteries? Do they perform well or should I just stick with one of Paul's batteries?
 
I went with rc lipo4 i wish i could have went with an em3ev battery, but at the time they didn't have the 25r batteries so it didn't really work for me. I plan on buying a em3ev battery and will keep the rc battery as a backup the rc battery is annoying i just want something simple plug and play without having to worry so much that a cell is going to die or if it needs balancing. I want to ride my bike not monitor my battery.
 
I looked at the ping battery, they seem very heavy and for 20ah setup is a dual brick battery, 22lbs. The Allcell 19.5ah weighs in at 12.5 lbs. The rc lipos interest me, but I just don't know enough about them to build a pack right now.

The em3ev triangle pack is what I wanted but it is just a hair too big to fit my frame. So then I am back to the rectangle battery, a 19.5ah is 910 plus shipping 145 and then paypal fee and exchange rate fee. all in 6.2% plus the 7-8 week wait. I know these are great packs ( 25r )

The allcell comes in at 1100 plus 50 for shipping. 1 week wait. I don't know enough about batteries to be able to compare the cell's or anything like that. Does anyone have a link to a review on the allcell HE4820? I thought this could be a good commuter pack and then maybe build or buy a second pack that has more power etc for trail riding? Does that make sense?

I appreciate all the comments and info everyone has shared so far.
 
Hey bma, was just wondring how you made out.
I have discoverd 5ah 30c of lipo is okay for sporatic 70a draws, but overall it will prolong the battery life to use 10ah for such draws when they're often (which is the case in my setup).
I think I've spent something like 700 for a balance charger (used occasionally), a bmsb charger for bulk charge, and 20s 83v 11.6ah lipo that is reconfigurable much easier than anything else. I'm happy with the purchase because of the configurability for size/range/draw, although I admit it's not userfriendly like other packs. So lipo is the 6 to 1/2 dozen for other packs depending on your desires.
 
nutspecial said:
Hey bma, was just wondring how you made out.
I have discoverd 5ah 30c of lipo is okay for sporatic 70a draws, but overall it will prolong the battery life to use 10ah for such draws when they're often (which is the case in my setup).
I think I've spent something like 700 for a balance charger (used occasionally), a bmsb charger for bulk charge, and 20s 83v 11.6ah lipo that is reconfigurable much easier than anything else. I'm happy with the purchase because of the configurability for size/range/draw, although I admit it's not userfriendly like other packs. So lipo is the 6 to 1/2 dozen for other packs depending on your desires.
Click to expand...


I ended up going with the Allcell. The amount of money to me seems silly, but it is what it is. My kit showed up and I didn't want to wait weeks while I figured out the battery build. For ME to do a custom battery ( main reason I started this topic ) the information needed to design and make a custom pack for a person just getting started seemed a bit overwhelming so I went with the easy solution. Battery works great, I will do a custom smaller battery after I get a better grasp on the stuff. I appreciate the info you shared, this sure helps!
 
I been doing a little, No...! A lot of battery searching.., I am trying to fallow Matt Shumaker's directions in powering a 3220 Astro Flight motor, but when it comes to the battery pack building or stacking as I like to call it, but any way all the battery's I looked at on line are 22.2v and not the 22.4v which is in all his diagrams and directions in wiring up to the motor, now don't laugh, I'm just not a electrical guru such as many of you out there... So please tell me, is that a typographical error, or am I missing some thing here..? thanks... Armadillo Zack :?:
 
bmac67 said:
nutspecial said:
Hey bma, was just wondring how you made out.
I have discoverd 5ah 30c of lipo is okay for sporatic 70a draws, but overall it will prolong the battery life to use 10ah for such draws when they're often (which is the case in my setup).
I think I've spent something like 700 for a balance charger (used occasionally), a bmsb charger for bulk charge, and 20s 83v 11.6ah lipo that is reconfigurable much easier than anything else. I'm happy with the purchase because of the configurability for size/range/draw, although I admit it's not userfriendly like other packs. So lipo is the 6 to 1/2 dozen for other packs depending on your desires.
Click to expand...

These Allcell batteries may seem expensive, but they have a US based "factory" and even Justin LeM, owner of this board and engineer extraordinare recommends them. I will be watching your build since I am interested.
otherDoc


I ended up going with the Allcell. The amount of money to me seems silly, but it is what it is. My kit showed up and I didn't want to wait weeks while I figured out the battery build. For ME to do a custom battery ( main reason I started this topic ) the information needed to design and make a custom pack for a person just getting started seemed a bit overwhelming so I went with the easy solution. Battery works great, I will do a custom smaller battery after I get a better grasp on the stuff. I appreciate the info you shared, this sure helps!
Click to expand...
 
dnmun said:
why spend $1200 when you can buy a battery for $450-500 from the cheapest source?
Click to expand...

Long term reliability and cycle life/calendar life.

A chemistry less prone to bursting into flames when abused.

Supporting companies that actually care about making safe battery packs instead of the cheapest thing they can stick a given rating on.
 
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