I just got an ebikekit battery

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 04 2015 9:09pm

I received this battery today, E-BikeKit™ 48v10ah LiFePO4 Lithium Electric Bike Battery. I was wondering if anyone else has used it? I haven't installed or used it yet but that'll be done tomorrow. This thing's huge for a 10ah battery. I'm glad I got the rack for it otherwise I'm not sure how I'd mount it on my bike.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dogman dan » May 05 2015 5:49am

We just started selling those very recently. Yeah, it's huge compared to NMC or LiMn. Very long.

Let us know what you think of it, feedback is good whether good or bad.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 05 2015 1:29pm

I installed and went for my test ride a little while ago. It died after about 10 miles. I'm using it with ebikekit's DD front hub kit with lcd monitor. It lost power one time during the ride even though it was still registering 5 bars. Turned it off and on and it started working again. It dropped down to 4 bars, then 3, then 1, and zero. It went from 4 to zero in about a mile. I pedaled about 75% of the time and only no pedaling while going downhill. The battery is costing me $750.00 so I'm kind of bummed at this point. It might be a controller issue but I don't know. When I got home, I turned everything off and on and it went back to 4 bars and started working again. It was fully charged before I went for my ride. The thing is that I also have a 36V 10ah from bmsbattery and it kind of does the same thing except when it gets to 3 bars it dies and I've only been getting about 5 miles out of that one. The 36V is only a few months old. I ordered the carrier with it and it was missing all of the lock nuts I needed so I had to use the ones from my Currie carrier. I bought everything through a local independent seller because he's letting me make $100.00 a month payments which is all I can afford. He ordered everything new from ebikekit. I've had the kit for a few months.

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cal3thousand   1.21 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by cal3thousand » May 05 2015 2:59pm

lbz5mc12 wrote:I installed and went for my test ride a little while ago. It died after about 10 miles. I'm using it with ebikekit's DD front hub kit with lcd monitor. It lost power one time during the ride even though it was still registering 5 bars. Turned it off and on and it started working again. It dropped down to 4 bars, then 3, then 1, and zero. It went from 4 to zero in about a mile. I pedaled about 75% of the time and only no pedaling while going downhill. The battery is costing me $750.00 so I'm kind of bummed at this point. It might be a controller issue but I don't know. When I got home, I turned everything off and on and it went back to 4 bars and started working again. It was fully charged before I went for my ride. The thing is that I also have a 36V 10ah from bmsbattery and it kind of does the same thing except when it gets to 3 bars it dies and I've only been getting about 5 miles out of that one. The 36V is only a few months old. I ordered the carrier with it and it was missing all of the lock nuts I needed so I had to use the ones from my Currie carrier. I bought everything through a local independent seller because he's letting me make $100.00 a month payments which is all I can afford. He ordered everything new from ebikekit. I've had the kit for a few months.
$750 for a 48V 10Ah pack?? Jeez.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by Ypedal » May 05 2015 3:11pm

Got any means to monitor voltage while in use ? it would explain a lot.
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dnmun   100 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dnmun » May 05 2015 3:20pm

sounds normal. unbalanced with no indication of charging before use. seems to happen to everyone who buys a new lithium battery for the first time. hope you did not over discharge it.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 05 2015 6:28pm

I charged it before I used it. I always charge my batteries before I use them. Yeah the price is really steep but that's usually what happens when you buy one in the good ole US of A. I still can't figure out why the battery is so huge. I have a now dead 48V 10ah pack and it's literally about 45% the size and a 3rd of the weight of my new battery. Granted it's a shrink wrapped pack with an input and an output but no case or lock etc.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by aroundqube » May 05 2015 10:06pm

Hmm.. so little info to go on. I see the ebay listing that you gave specifies a battery with nominal 48V and no less than 17 Ah. What does your controller say for Amp discharge rating? Also wondering if you could have a false positive hall / phase combo causing high current draw, because the picture shows individual phase wires for you to connect.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 06 2015 12:49am

That's not an ebay listing it's the description from the ebikekit websits. ebikekit.com.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dogman dan » May 06 2015 5:57am

I you were riding full speed, about 10 miles is what I'd expect from 10 ah. More data on how you were riding, your weight, hills or none, lots of stops or none, etc would help us understand if the battery was behaving more or less normal or not. One of the cheap watt meters from Ebay would help you know what your wh/mi is, and how many wh you are getting from the pack.

When lifepo4 gets empty, it does drop voltage crazy fast. So that's why it went from several bars to nada so fast.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dnmun » May 06 2015 9:28am

do you wanna analyze what is wrong or is this just a thread to force the seller to take the battery back?

if you need help in figuring out how to analyze it then post up some pictures of what you have so we can give you advice.

sounds normal to me for a new unbalanced pack of small capacity, and in your earlier posts there was no mention of charging it up beforehand which is what i observed in my comments.

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cal3thousand   1.21 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by cal3thousand » May 06 2015 10:25am

Leave it plugged in for half a day and then report back your findings. BTW, are you using a CA?
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by docnjoj » May 06 2015 10:34am

10 AH is not a lot, especially with a DD motor. They draw a lot of amps on startup, so your range may be all you can get. Definitely follow the advice of the experts, and also get a cheap wattmeter so you can accurately measure your power usage. That is critical for accurate information.
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Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
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2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by Gregor » May 06 2015 8:13pm

Leaving the charger on it for at least 3 hrs past when it indicates that it is "done" will help the cells get in to better balance. Only 1 of those 16 cells have to go low for the BMS to cut the power. So I 2ndthe notion of Cal3thousand!

aroundqube   1 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by aroundqube » May 06 2015 9:05pm

lbz5mc12 wrote:That's not an ebay listing it's the description from the ebikekit websits. ebikekit.com.
apologies, I was reading your previous posts and the ebay kit was posted by baltimorebiker, My mistake.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 07 2015 7:51am

Well the battery range is kind of what I was expecting I was just hoping for a little better performance because of the price tag. I'm still having issues with the LCD monitor telling me that I'm going half the speed that I actually am. It's set on mph and as far as I know it only reads in mph.

No I don't have a CA and I don't have the money to buy one.

The rack that is built for this battery sucks. It's super flimsy and shimmies back and forth when I ride which makes the back of my bike feel squirly. I keep checking all the nuts and bolts and everything is tightened down. It also didn't come with any installation instructions and it was missing all of the lock nuts which I managed to scrounge up. The battery doesn't stop sliding forward when it reaches the front of the rack and I have to manually position it over the lock hole. The lock itself only sinks into the hole about a 16th of an inch.

I've let the battery charge overnight a couple of times already. It came with a smart charger so I don't constantly have to keep an eye on it.

I sent an email to ebikekit with my concerns. They replied to all of my battery queries which match what you all say but completely ignored the controller and monitor issues I'm having. I replied and asked them for a new controller and monitor under warranty so I'll see what happens.

Also I tend to pedal the majority of the time when I ride. There's a lot of cops patrolling the city I live in on a regular basis.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dnmun » May 07 2015 8:22am

measure the charging current with the ammeter on your DVM and see if the charging current turns off when the light on the charger goes to green.

smart charger usually means it has a latching output.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 07 2015 1:14pm

Here's my email contact so far with ebikekit,


E-BikeKit™ <support@ebikekit.com>
1:52 PM (21 hours ago)

to me
Lawrence,

Thanks for writing and sorry about the trouble that you're having.

Firstly, if you got the kit from Ryan at Underscore Electric Vehicles, it would be best to visit him and let him have a look at the kit - when you get a kit from a bike shop, they're your first answer for technical help and support, since they can look at the kit and see what's going on, while we can only diagnose over the phone or email.

Second, you may be experiencing normal operation. We rate that 10ah battery for 12-26 miles of range on a bike kit or 10-24 miles of range on a trike. A heavy bike, minimal pedaling, operating at high speeds, headwinds, hills, carrying extra weight, or frequent starting/stopping or acceleration can all limit your range by burning up power faster than average. It's also not uncommon to see the battery meter at "full" almost all the time with this kind of battery - a Lithium battery has a high voltage and mantains that voltage until it is out of energy, so the battery meter is not accurate like with a sealed lead acid battery that has a consistent gradual voltage drop. Also, a fully discharged battery can "recover" over time when the voltage rises after it "rests" with no load, then you can turn it back on for a short time.

With these three things in mind - that your distance of 9 or 10 miles is very close to the rated range, and that the battery meter will appear full until the battery is empty, and that a battery can recover after sitting idle, it seems like a possible explanation is that the battery was used up as normal, shut the kit off, and after a while recovered enough to run again.

Please let us know how things go with Ryan and if he is able to help you dig a little deeper and find any potential problems with the kit.


Best regards,
Alec

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EBikeKit.com | Electric Bike Technologies USA
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PLEASE NOTE: This communication, including the message and any attachments, may include confidential information. Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) or for any purpose other than as obviously intended by the sender is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy all copies of the message and any attached files. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: noreply@salesforce.com [mailto:noreply@salesforce.com] On Behalf Of E-BikeKit Sales
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 10:19 AM
To: E-BikeKit™
Subject: EBK Contact Form Submission

First name: Lawrence
Last Name: Begany
E-Mail Address: lbz5mc@gmail.com
Phone Number: (909) 881-2345
Comments: I just got my E-BIKEKIT™ 48V10AH LIFEPO4 LITHIUM ELECTRIC BIKE BATTERY Monday. I'm using your discontinued front direct drive brush-less hub kit that I purchased about a week before you discontinued it. I bought all of this through your seller Ryan Cross. Yesterday on my first test ride with the new battery I only got about 10 miles and it completely died. I had it plugged in overnight so it was fully charged before I used it. I was pedaling most of the time. At about 9 miles it dropped a bar and at another quarter it went to three bars, then to one bar, then to zero and died. When I got home I turned everything off and then back on and it went to 4 bars and started working. I've got the monitor set at 48V, 26", and #46. When I was running it at 36V it was showing a top speed of about 24.5 mph. I know it's going faster at 48V but the monitor is registering about half the speed I'm actually going. I'm thinking it has to be the controller, monitor or maybe both. Are those still under warranty?

to E-BikeKit™
Okay, that's fine as far as the range on the battery is concerned but I'm still having the problems with the controller and LCD monitor that I mentioned. If I can, I'd like the monitor and controller replaced under warranty. If you send me a return shipping label, I'll send the old ones back. Thanks.

Ryan doesn't have any extra ones in stock as far as I know.

Lawrence Begany
5:31 AM (5 hours ago)

to E-BikeKit™
Okay, that's fine as far as the range on the battery is concerned but I'm still having the problems with the controller and LCD monitor that I mentioned. If I can, I'd like the monitor and controller replaced under warranty. If you send me a return shipping label, I'll send the old ones back. Thanks.

Ryan doesn't have any extra ones in stock as far as I know.


E-BikeKit™ <support@ebikekit.com>
6:36 AM (4 hours ago)

to me
Lawrence,

Yes, if you would like to send the controller, wiring, and LCD to us, when we receive them we will test them here and troubleshoot any problems, repair or replace parts that are covered under warranty.

Your speed will be determined by a number of factors, like terrain, total weight on the bike, bike type, tire and wheel size, but a 10x6 (small 10mm 9-pin plug) direct-drive motor will have about a 18mph top speed at 48 volts with a 26” wheel, while a 6x9 (large 14mm 3-pin plug) motor will have about a 21 mph top speed with a 26” wheel

It sounds like things are set up in your LCD correctly, if you have a direct-drive motor and 26” wheel, but I can’t double check since your order is through underscore EV. Again, you might want to double check with Ryan to be sure that you have a direct-drive motor, and which type it is.
It may also be worth checking your battery charger to be sure it is the right type – it should say 57.6 volts 3amps on it. If you have a 36 volt charger (it will say 43.2 volts 3 amps) then your battery could be slightly under-charged, effecting top speed and range. I don’t think this is likely, but just to cover all our bases.


Best regards,
Alec

Lawrence Begany <lbz5mc@gmail.com>
11:10 AM (2 minutes ago)

to E-BikeKit™
I don't need to check with Ryan on the motor type. I've been riding, working on, and building ebikes since 2009. It's a brushless 36-48V DD hub kit made for a 300lb plus weight. The charger is the silver colored 57.6V 3A version. On your site when the kit was originally purchased the rated top speed at 36V was close to 20 mph and at 48V was 30 mph.

If I were to send you the controller and monitor before I get new ones, then what am I supposed to use for transportation in the meantime. I don't drive. I don't have a regular front wheel for my bike.

Last time I had one of your sla chargers and it blew up on me you guys replaced it no problem but now when I have any other warranty issues it seems you're trying to do everything you can to avoid honoring the warranty.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dnmun » May 07 2015 1:35pm

i thought you said the problem was your battery.

we asked for pictures and got no response and now you are trying to get the ebikekit people to replace the controller so what was this thread for?

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 07 2015 2:32pm

Originally it was for the battery but the battery seems to be okay but the controller isn't. If one of the moderators wants to move the thread into ebike general discussion that's fine. What pictures do you want again?

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dogman dan » May 08 2015 6:42am

Reading that, I'm just slightly confused what your problem with the controller is. Is the only problem the speed being shown? We aren't trying to duck the warranty at all. We just need to know the problem is not something simple, like oops we sent you the wrong charger.

Double check that you still have the wheel size set to 26 of course. 46 is the correct setting for a DD. No doubt you have. But are there any other problems? Does it seem to run normally?

Make sure the motor wire plugs are fully seated, I suppose it could be a poor connection to the speed sensor inside the motor. More likely it would run funny if that was the case.

If the speed is reading half, I suspect the distance is also reading half. Or, are you really traveling at half speed? Does it run normally on 36v?

Once we fully understand your problem and which part is broken, we will do everything we can to get you fixed up.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 08 2015 1:12pm

I'm starting to think it is a problem with the speed sensor in the motor. I coasted down a hill today that usually reads 30 mph but it was only showing my speed as 15 mph. This was just a straight coast with no motor usage. I just sent a copy of this reply to both ebikekit and Ryan of underscoreev.com who I purchased everything through. This must mean the sensor is either reading half revolutions or every other revolution of the wheel. It might be the plug on the controller itself because the last couple of times I've had to disconnect it at that point, it has been extremely difficult. I'm thinking maybe one of the contacts pulled loose a little bit.

On a side note the battery seems to be performing a lot better after a few charge/discharge cycles.

The stability of the carrier still leaves a lot to be desired and it feels like the locking mechanism on the battery is starting to come loose.

I've only been doing street riding.

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lbz5mc12   10 kW

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by lbz5mc12 » May 09 2015 11:18am

I also hooked up the 36V again and set it back to 36V but instead of reading half the actual speed it's showing about 60% of the speed. I don't now how many of you have actually seen the newer kits but you just can't open things up on them and look for damage. Everything's waterproofed and sealed tight.

At no load on 36V it usually reads 25 mph but just now it was showing 17.5 mph no load.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by docnjoj » May 09 2015 1:03pm

A wattmeter and an external speedometer ($10 at Walmart) would help so you actually know how many watts you use and how fast you actually go.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: I just got an ebikekit battery

Post by dnmun » May 10 2015 8:46am

how does the speedo sensor work? it could be missing some of the magnetic pulses from the pickup if the magnet on the wheel is off location.

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