0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cwah » May 06, 2015 11:09 pm

Hello all,

I've discovered a new brand called Gophert and purchased 2 fanless power supply from them. They have been very reliable so far and I've used them for over 6 months no problems at all. Only once the control became crazy but it sorted someone within the 10 mn.

Everyday I set the charge to 80% charge and move the knob quickly to 95% whenever I need more range. Quick and fast. 2 knobs were the most convenient thing ever!

I was looking at a power supply able to quick charge my battery on the go... and found this::
Image
http://gophertc.com/en/cps-6017-60v-17a ... wer-supply

For sale for about 200usd new:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CPS-6017 ... 07509.html

Definitely cheaper than meanwell, more adjustable range, as compact and similar weight... 3kg for 1000W!

My only fear would be if the fan are too loud (bmsbattery one are loud to the point I can't charge it outside without getting noticed) and if it can handle decently vibration if taken on a bike.

I'm considering getting one.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by alexis57 » May 07, 2015 2:00 am

Looks like good supply but why ?
It's not a power supply for Li ion, it cannot make the charge with CC-CV shape...
Last edited by alexis57 on May 07, 2015 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by Gregory » May 07, 2015 2:11 am

Just looking at the picture it looks like it will do CCCV


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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by alexis57 » May 07, 2015 2:16 am

Gregory wrote:Just looking at the picture it looks like it will do CCCV
No, it just means it can do current constant and voltage constant (almost every power supplies can do this) not a shape CC CV for Li-ion.

I really doubt but if it can do CC CV shape, I don't see when it will cutoff after the CV.
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by Gregory » May 07, 2015 4:13 am

The supply won't ever cut off. But current won't flow (and will slow as the Potential Difference drops) if there is no voltage difference between the supply and battery.


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3) 38" Longboard, Turnigy 6374, CC Mamba XL2 ESC

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by alexis57 » May 07, 2015 5:49 am

The power supply will behave only in current constant (CC), never in voltage constant since as soon as the battery will reach 4.2V (for example), the power supply will cut off and won't give current anymore. The battery won't see the CV phase..

This way is used by "fast" battery charger but can charge the battery til only 70% maximum.

That's why a Li-ion battery needs a Li-ion charger with CC AND CV phase.
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by Gregory » May 07, 2015 6:13 am

No alexis from what I know, that's all wrong. I'm sure the Gopher T will provide a full 100% charge.

But this is all probably off topic in this thread anyway.

Cheers,
Greg


1) x5305 Hub Motor in a 24" Sun rim with 10G spokes, Kelly 72601 controller, 74V 10Ah Turnigy LiPo 20C Battery and CycleAnalyst
2) Mac 10T rear hub in a 700C "comfort bike" 15S 5Ah LiPo, stock 28A Xie Cheng controller
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cwah » May 07, 2015 7:01 am

I'be been using 2 of their fanless charger model for over 6 months and I had no issue to charger cells to 4.05V on daily basis and 4.15v occasionally.

If your battery can only reach 70% charge without CC/CV then your battery is seriously out of balance and you need to considering either balancing it or replace some cell.

With minimum cell to cell variace (under 0.03V over the whole pack) I have no such issue and all cells end up aligned to 4.14-4.15V with one or two at 4.13v
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by alexis57 » May 07, 2015 7:35 am

It's not about battery pack but only Li-ion battery.
In order to get 100%, you have to charge the battery with a CC CV shape, no choice.
If you charge only with a current constant to a voltage, without using the CV mode, you cannot reach more than 70% if you stop at 4.2V.

Explanation in another way since you persist saying I'm wrong...
Why the CC CV shape and CC/CV chargers exist if a simple DC supply is enough ?
Another way to explain you, the CC CV shape is : (recommended for li-ion battery in order to get a full recharge)
Image
With your power supply (which isn't a CC CV charger but a simple DC power supply) and you stop at 4.2V (then you do only the phase I), where is the energy of the phase II ? The one you don't provide to the battery ?

I'm sure about what I say, it's not off topic in this thread... since I try to explain you that this power supply is not adapted for Li ion battery.
If someone have a capacity meter, you can charge the battery with this power supply to 4.2V and make a capacity measure by discharging, you'll see you won't get the maximum capacity.

You can just look at google "charging li ion" and you'll see...

As I said, this power supply is ok but is not really useful for a full charge since it cannot do the CV phase.

I think I explained a lot then it'll be my last contribution about a li-ion charger.
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cwah » May 07, 2015 7:38 am

My power supply stick to max voltage at end of charge... and current decreases continuously until it reach 0.2A by then it stops
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by riba2233 » May 07, 2015 7:42 am

It can do CV phase, don't worry.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cwah » May 07, 2015 7:44 am

Actually, the voltage isn't to the max when current decrease. Current decreases gradually until the point it reaches max voltage. That is the right behaviour. But it seems to work
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cycborg » May 07, 2015 8:15 am

alexis57 wrote:Another way to explain you, the CC CV shape is : (recommended for li-ion battery in order to get a full recharge)
Image
With your power supply (which isn't a CC CV charger but a simple DC power supply) and you stop at 4.2V (then you do only the phase I), where is the energy of the phase II ? The one you don't provide to the battery ?
What a relief that we finally got someone on this forum who understands Li-ion charging! :roll:

Can you please explain why you think the power supply simply shuts off when it gets to the specified voltage, rather than transitioning to CV mode? This would be truly bizzare behavior for a power supply. I struggle to think of the application where this would be useful.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by dnmun » May 07, 2015 8:36 am

a power supply does not turn off. not sure who started this misinformation but it is totally bogus.

there are some chargers with the label 'smart charger' which have a latching output that does turn off when the charger reaches final voltage. they should not be used with a lifepo4 pack with balancing BMS.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by riba2233 » May 07, 2015 8:38 am

dnmun wrote:a power supply does not turn off. not sure who started this misinformation but it is totally bogus.

there are some chargers with the label 'smart charger' which have a latching output that does turn off when the charger reaches final voltage. they should not be used with a lifepo4 pack with balancing BMS.
Don't they turn off when current reaches some low value? If they turned off on final voltage, you wouldn't have CV phase at all.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by alexis57 » May 07, 2015 8:53 am

Of course a power supply turn off ... Maybe not "turn off" but doesn't provide any current anymore when the voltage battery reached the power supply voltage (means turn-off for me)

Anyway, as everybody said, this is not a "charger", only a supply power.

Like riba2233 said, with this, no CV phase at all, means not full charge.
A Li-ion charger HAS TO turn off when the current at the end of the CV phase is too low !
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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by dnmun » May 07, 2015 9:00 am

no, a power supply does not turn off. it is set to provide a specific voltage. only the current limiting feedback loop will turn it off if the current exceeds the spec but only briefly and the power supply then goes into hiccup mode.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by Tamaz » May 07, 2015 9:04 am

alexis57:
The "shape" picture you posted is exactly how the powersupply will behave, both phase 1 and phase 2. The only difference from a "charger" is it wont turn off and say the charging is complete, you have to turn it off manually when phase 2 is complete. Leaving it on after phase 2 is complete might be bad for the battery depending on how the powersupply handles really low currents, but if you keep an eye on it it will defenitely charge your li-ion fully.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by dnmun » May 07, 2015 9:12 am

if you people do not know what you are talking about you should not make more statements to misinform people.

a power supply does not turn off. a charger does not turn off at the end of CV.

a charger only turns off it has the latching output as is the case of the chargers called 'smart chargers'.

how many times do i have to try to stop this spread of misinformation?

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by spinningmagnets » May 07, 2015 9:18 am

I have no experience with these:
Features
•Top performance cost ratio
•High power density, smallest and compact
•Full metal enclosure with very low EMI
•The microprocessor(MCU) control
•Using Encoder to set the voltage and current
•Four digital volt meter and current meter
•High efficiency, up to 90%.
•Low Ripple & Noise: ≤ 30 mVp-p.
•Output ON/OFF
•Lock switch
•Intelligent protection: Tracking OVP, Tracking OCP, OTP, Output short circuit protection

Specification

Operation Voltage Range 170 – 264Vac
Operation Frequency Range 45 – 65HZ
Output Voltage Range 0 – 60V
Output Current Range 0 – 17A
Efficiency (220Vac/full load) ≥89%
Full Load Input Current(220Vac) ≤5.1A
No Load Input Current(220Vac) ≤180mA
Volt Meter Accuracy ≤ 0.3% + 1 digits
Current Meter Accuracy ≤ 0.3% + 2 digit

Constant Voltage

Load Regulation (0-100%) ≤ 30mV
Line Regulation(198-264Vac) ≤ 10mV
Ripple & Noise (Peak-Peak) ≤ 30mV
Ripple & Noise (r.m.s) ≤ 3mV
Set Accuracy ≤ 0.3% + 10mV
Transient Response Time (50%-100% rated Load) ≤ 1.0ms

Constant Current

Load Regulation(90%-10% Rated Voltage) ≤ 50mA
Line Regulation (198-264Vac) ≤ 20mA
Ripple & Noise (Peak-Peak) ≤ 30mAp-p
Set Accuracy ≤ 0.3% + 20mA
Size(width× height× depth) 188×80×238mm
Net Weight 3.0KG

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cycborg » May 07, 2015 9:24 am

dnmun wrote:a power supply does not turn off. a charger does not turn off at the end of CV.
Hmm. Then what, for you, is the distinction between a power supply and a non-smart charger?
a charger only turns off it has the latching output as is the case of the chargers called 'smart chargers'.
How does one know whether one's charger is smart or not? I think for a lot of us, when we hear "charger", the first thing that comes to mind is Kingpan, which isn't particularly smart compared to a Satiator, but it does have a low-current shutoff, right?

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cycborg » May 07, 2015 9:26 am

alexis57 wrote:doesn't provide any current anymore when the voltage battery reached the power supply voltage
OK, suppose you're an electronics hobbyist and you dial this supply down to 5 V to power a circuit on your breadboard. Do you think this supply would refuse to provide any power unless your circuit was pulling current at the current limit?
A Li-ion charger HAS TO turn off when the current at the end of the CV phase is too low !
A charger (or smart charger, in dnmun's parlance) will do this automatically. A power supply will do it through the intervention of an attentive operator.

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by cycborg » May 07, 2015 9:33 am

cwah, which model have you been using? And did you buy them from the seller you linked in the OP?

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Re: 0-60v 1000W power supply - forget meanwell

Post by Russell » May 07, 2015 9:59 am

You CAN charge a Li-ion battery fully with a power supply but it's best to use one with a current limiting feature. Say you're charging a single cell, just set the power supply to 4.20V and the current limit to an appropriate value and go. The power supply will maintain a CC for a period of time, depends on battery state of charge and current limit, then the current will slowly decrease over time as the voltage increases. At 4.20V the current will be zero and the battery will be fully charged. This method is slower than a dedicated Li-ion charger but it still works just fine, that's one of the nice things about Li-ion batteries.

Other batteries do charge better if a specific curve is followed. For example lead acid is rather "lazy" so an SLA charger pumps up the voltage to as high as 14.8V for a "12V" SLA battery then when current is at a set point it lowers the voltage to 13-13.8V and maintains that value. Other batteries like NIMH charge until there is a slight negative delta V or they go by temperature.

I will also concur with dnmun about how Li-ion chargers behave at the end of the charge cycle. I have one "smart" charger that has a zero output when it reaches a specific current and turns on it green fully charged LED. All 4 of the other Li-on chargers I have and others I have owned in the past all turned on their green lights at a preset current, generally around 0.20-0.40A, but do NOT shut off. Actually this is more desirable since it allows the BMS to balance the pack better. I have two chargers where the voltage, current and end of charge current setpoint (to turn on green light) are adjustable. This is quite handy.

Finally if you're a geek or just want to get to know your charger better put a wattmeter in line with its output and watch it someday. I put Anderson connectors on all of my chargers and wattmeters so I can do just this.

-R
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