SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 31 2008 4:12pm

I am building a very tough ON/OFF/Serie/Parallel switch for my ebike.

Here is what i'm building :twisted: .. NO MORE PLASMA !! NO MORE VOLT LOOSE!
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Serie parallel using 3 contactors.JPG
Serie parallel using 3 contactors.JPG (49.85 KiB) Viewed 2863 times
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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Patrick » Oct 31 2008 7:09pm

Nicely done!

Hope you going to make very sure that they don't all come on together . . . .
Is it just a coincidence that aliens have never managed to find an earth-dweller who knows how to operate his own camera properly?

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 31 2008 7:30pm

Patrick wrote:Nicely done!

Hope you going to make very sure that they don't all come on together . . . .

That's the part i'm working on. it is clear that i can not just comand them using a dpst switch cause if i switch it too fast the activated contactor may react faster and the releasing contactor may stick in place.. so .. it may make a plasma again!..

But i used 2 x 25A paralleled fuse on each positive of every of my battery pack.. in case where a malfonction could occur..

I am thinking to a circuit that delay the switching from one state to the other state and that would protect against both activation in same time...

What i like with these contactors is that they can cary up to 900VDC... so no more problem with DC voltage limited switch to 12V, 36V 48V or 84V... I can now use my 100.8V without any problem of welding!

I have search for one month for a DPDT switch or a DPDT relay that can switch AT LEAST 100VDC and that can cary 50A and that is nott as big as a brick... and that dont cost 500$ and i had not found.. it's like the majority of DC contactor or relay are most in the 12 to 48V range... higher than that is very complicated to find!


The Tyco contactor are the cheapest contactor in ratio with the max volt and current they can cary
and they are AEROSPACE GRADE and are SCEALED... AND JUST NEED 1.7W TO HOLD THE ENERGIZED POSITION!

Doc

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by John in CR » Oct 31 2008 8:43pm

DrBass,

I'm probably being too elementary, but wouldn't a 3 way switch do the trick. Position 1 = parallel, position center = both off, position 2 = series. Wouldn't the center position OFF give you the sufficient delay that you need?

John

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 31 2008 9:05pm

John in CR wrote:DrBass,

I'm probably being too elementary, but wouldn't a 3 way switch do the trick. Position 1 = parallel, position center = both off, position 2 = series. Wouldn't the center position OFF give you the sufficient delay that you need?

John
I already had a 4PDT switch ON-OFF-ON with off positioin on the middle. What i can say is that it's too easy to switch from ON to ON position.. too fast too.. The Contactor i bought take 13ms to brake contact and 11 to make it... it's very short and a switch that can be accidentally moved too fast could create a brief moment where all 3 contactor still activated...

I have no real idea on how i will built that delay.. maybe with some electronic circuits...

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by michaelplogue » Oct 31 2008 10:29pm


Patrick   100 W

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Patrick » Oct 31 2008 10:37pm

That's not a bad idea - bit clunky, though. Those kilovac contactors are sweet - we use them on 275 volt prius packs.
Is it just a coincidence that aliens have never managed to find an earth-dweller who knows how to operate his own camera properly?

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by John in CR » Nov 01 2008 1:53am

Doctorbass wrote:
John in CR wrote:DrBass,

I'm probably being too elementary, but wouldn't a 3 way switch do the trick. Position 1 = parallel, position center = both off, position 2 = series. Wouldn't the center position OFF give you the sufficient delay that you need?

John
I already had a 4PDT switch ON-OFF-ON with off positioin on the middle. What i can say is that it's too easy to switch from ON to ON position.. too fast too.. The Contactor i bought take 13ms to brake contact and 11 to make it... it's very short and a switch that can be accidentally moved too fast could create a brief moment where all 3 contactor still activated...

I have no real idea on how i will built that delay.. maybe with some electronic circuits...

Doc
Okay then, how about a pair of the on-off-on switches oriented so you can't flip them both at the same time and wired so both must be in position 1 for parallel and both in position 2 for series. Shouldn't the time it takes to move your finger from 1 switch to the other be sufficient delay without intentionally trying to beat it using 2 hands?

John

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Doctorbass » Nov 01 2008 8:27am

John in CR wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:
John in CR wrote:DrBass,

I'm probably being too elementary, but wouldn't a 3 way switch do the trick. Position 1 = parallel, position center = both off, position 2 = series. Wouldn't the center position OFF give you the sufficient delay that you need?

John
I already had a 4PDT switch ON-OFF-ON with off positioin on the middle. What i can say is that it's too easy to switch from ON to ON position.. too fast too.. The Contactor i bought take 13ms to brake contact and 11 to make it... it's very short and a switch that can be accidentally moved too fast could create a brief moment where all 3 contactor still activated...

I have no real idea on how i will built that delay.. maybe with some electronic circuits...

Doc
Okay then, how about a pair of the on-off-on switches oriented so you can't flip them both at the same time and wired so both must be in position 1 for parallel and both in position 2 for series. Shouldn't the time it takes to move your finger from 1 switch to the other be sufficient delay without intentionally trying to beat it using 2 hands?

John

John, can you just draw a little schematic of your idea, I guess it would solve the problem, but i dont see exactly what your mean...

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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TylerDurden   100 GW

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by TylerDurden » Nov 01 2008 8:45am

Would a simple R-C delay work... You want them to open fast and delay before closing, yes?
Have a Nice Day,

TD

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Doctorbass » Nov 01 2008 9:02am

TylerDurden wrote:Would a simple R-C delay work... You want them to open fast and delay before closing, yes?
Exactly, but i want something that garranty that the closing is never at the same time than opening. and with a garanted delay.. maybe some logic circuit like cmos 4000 serie... and cap and resistor...

maybe this one could work:

Doc
Attachments
delay on timer.gif
delay on timer.gif (1.98 KiB) Viewed 1972 times
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by TylerDurden » Nov 01 2008 10:55am

I'm not sure electronics alone will guarantee safety.

A relay that locks-out the S coils if the P coils are energized (and viceversa) might be worth exploring.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by John in CR » Nov 01 2008 7:38pm

Doctorbass wrote:
John in CR wrote:
Okay then, how about a pair of the on-off-on switches oriented so you can't flip them both at the same time and wired so both must be in position 1 for parallel and both in position 2 for series. Shouldn't the time it takes to move your finger from 1 switch to the other be sufficient delay without intentionally trying to beat it using 2 hands?

John
John, can you just draw a little schematic of your idea, I guess it would solve the problem, but i dont see exactly what your mean...

Doc
Doc,

I don't know the first thing about drawing schematics, but I believe it's straight forward. Use two 3way switches and don't put them side by side (too easy to flip them both without delay). Only 2 combinations would complete the 2 circuits. eg Both in the "up" ON position completes the circuit for parallel, and both in the "down" ON position completes the circuit for parallel. Any other combination creates an incomplete circuit. If you arrange them one above the other instead of side by side, then it would take a conscious effort to switch them both in less than the 20ms or so that you need. If switching between the 2 settings is something you plan to do infrequently, then the other switch could be hidden somewhere else.

John

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by michaelplogue » Nov 01 2008 7:51pm

Unless you need something that will switch on-the-fly, I think a simple mechanical solution would be the most efficient.

Just make a simple jumper made of two plugs, that in one position gives you series. Take them out and plug them into another pair of recepticals for parallel. Anderson connectors would be perfect for this.

.

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by Takemehome » Nov 02 2008 2:14am

2 SPDT
2 up activate serial
2 down activate parallel
1 up and 1 down = OFF


............................up1-------serial contactor------up2
Positive on(common1)............................................(common2)on Negative.
.........................down1---- parallel contactors--down2
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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by John in CR » Nov 02 2008 3:34am

That sounds to me like 3 votes for KISS with a mechanical and seemingly foolproof solution of your choice. I kind of like having the clear OFF position, but Takemehome's solution is the most simple.

John

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Re: SERIE / PARALLEL SWITCH for High current & high voltage

Post by TylerDurden » Nov 02 2008 8:15am

Doc,

There should be some DPDT switches available that require two pushes to change ON states (my Citicar uses one to activate the FWD/REV contactors).

They stop at the OFF (center) position and the user must release pressure, then re-apply pressure to push the lever to the next ON position.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

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