Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by dogman dan » Oct 20 2015 6:31am

Definitely you will like lithium better. But even a 30 amps controller should not kill your (fresh) lead in just a few cycles, IF you didn't discharge them deep. The max spec for the battery was 25 amps, but you were not pulling 30 amps the whole ride. Most likely you only pull 20 amps when riding full speed. Only when starting up would you pull all 30 amps, and only for a few seconds.

You could easily kill lead riding too far, but more likely no swelling if they were fresh.
The fact they swelled is really the tip off they were ancient. They were full of sulphate crystals when you got them. In addition, they could have been the wrong type for an EV.

If you do want to replace with more lead after all, get 20ah cells from a reputable seller of batteries for wheelchairs locally. Get some with a date on them.

vicens   100 W

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by vicens » Oct 20 2015 11:40pm

These batteries model can not be achieved here.

I can get lead acid batteries unsuitable for cycles of the same size for 200 euros ($ 220).

I can get lead acid batteries suitable for cycles per € 270 ($ 300).

For € 270 ($ 300) I can get lithium battery in the same useful capacity.

I think the purchase of lead acid batteries is bad.

meelis11   100 W

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by meelis11 » Oct 21 2015 2:22am

vicens wrote:These batteries model can not be achieved here.

I can get lead acid batteries unsuitable for cycles of the same size for 200 euros ($ 220).

I can get lead acid batteries suitable for cycles per € 270 ($ 300).

For € 270 ($ 300) I can get lithium battery in the same useful capacity.

I think the purchase of lead acid batteries is bad.
I am quite sure you can not even get bare cells with 270EUR (60V 20Ah?)
it probaly costs more - when using 2.9Ah cells, you need 112Cells to get 60V 20Ah battery (16s7p)
Buy quality brand cells (LG, samsung, panasonic), also you need BMS, charger, spotwelder,.
My point is that it will be costing more (400EUR minimum without spotwelder when DIY), but it is worth it.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by dogman dan » Oct 21 2015 6:11am

I wasn't really trying to convince you to buy more lead. If you can't find good lead batteries in Barcelona, you simply have not looked in the right place.

I'm sure, they use power wheelchairs in spain. They won't be china cheap, but the power chair service people will have fresh lead.

I only say this, because thousands of other may read this thread.

vicens   100 W

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by vicens » Oct 23 2015 9:09am

Lead batteries 60v 20Ah / 20h. Deliverable 12ah.

A lithium battery 60v 12ah is priced around lead acid.

Batteries lead Wheelchairs 60v 20Ah are more expensive. They cost € 500 ($ 600)

I think not worth the lead acid.

I'm looking at a lithium battery as 60V 45Ah 16s16p.

ecycler   10 kW

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by ecycler » Oct 23 2015 9:25am

Unless you are cycling very shallow lead is penny wise and literally pound foolish, lead is a dead end game with Electric Vehicles these days. After 5k+ miles you will have spent more money on the batteries, and had a heck of a time constantly replacing and disposing of them. You are definitely making a smart play to switch to lithium.
Any grease is better than no grease.
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by 999zip999 » Oct 23 2015 1:04pm

Before you buy show us the battery you are interested in as E.S. hears about the crap ass battery. Don't gamble on to cheap a battery.

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by LockH » Oct 23 2015 3:05pm

"Curb weight: 198 lbs"

Ouch. See "Kinetic energy":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

Basically, the heavy machine = more energy needed to accelerate and go against gravity ("up hills"). As folks have been sayin' here, sealed lead acid batteries are about the worst chemistry available. "Stone Age" in battery terms. But also, the more you can lighten the vehicle the less energy needed... the lower the battery discharge rate. Also, the aerodynamics at any sort of speeds where the rider is sitting upright... equivalent to "the broad side of a barn door". Horrible. As usual the seller is quoting near impossible performance stats. Cut `em about in half. In terms of speed and distances. Just going slower will get you greater range per charge. And as someone may have said, try to recharge when lead batteries are only about half exhausted.

My first electric bike was "tiny" w/2x 12V 10Ah batteries which was an education in how NOT to consume available capacity. Pedaling off from stops to save spikes/peak outputs... Coasting up to stops (using the brakes "bad"). Loving down hills and trying to avoid up hills. Traveling WITH any winds NOT against/into any winds.

Good luck

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vicens   100 W

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Re: Problems with lead batteries. They swell quickly.

Post by vicens » Oct 25 2015 2:42am

The battery makes me jimwebo. the forum.

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