Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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okashira   10 kW

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Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » Dec 29 2015 1:37pm

Got a hold of a few of these puppies. It's arranged in 3P (60Ah) - total capacity is 5.43kWh.
Some test results soon :))
Cells seem removable, although tabs would be short.

Checked cells and they were all within 0.0005V or less of each other
No fuses like a Tesla Module. This one will be interesting to short. :twisted:
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"Peace out - I'm done."
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wb9k   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by wb9k » Dec 29 2015 2:41pm

Find a wrecked Chevy Spark? That's what that's from. 28S3P. Actually, every cell IS fused (under the welded-on busbars, punched into the anode tab) and the module is fused too--look at the neckdown on the strap leading to the + terminal. Short the module out hard, that's what you'll blow.

I don't recommend trying to remove cells from the welded groups--too hard on the cells. You can break the module into chunks---say two 14S3P modules, but then you'll have to recompress and reband.
dh
2009 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2008 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2011 Rose Xing Fu 48V 500 Watt commuter scooter (now departed)
1984 Honda Interceptor 48V electric conversion motorcycle
Under construction: 2008 Miles ZX40ST truck with altered DC drivetrain
Departed: 2002 VW Jetta TDI which was run for a time partly on WVO.
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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by agniusm » Dec 30 2015 3:06am

Save it for motorbike build. Would a pain and a shame to dismantle.

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30 2015 4:54am

Would fit great on the SB Cruiser trike, and give great startup acceleration *and* range even with both dogs and a bunch of cargo. :)

But I'd have to tap off it at the 60V-ish point, to use controllers I have...would have to replace the controllers to use it as-is. :)

Just dreamin'. ;)

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oatnet   10 MW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by oatnet » Jan 13 2016 1:00pm

Great find! There are a bunch of threads here on the a123 28s3p and 7s3p factory modules, I'm using them on my Dune Buggy.

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Bazaki   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by Bazaki » Jan 15 2016 7:22am

I have the same. It also can Come from the fisker karma car. Bms wires were ripped off. Hard to solder wires so i drilled holes for screws. I use the battery for my off grid office. Works perfect

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by bigmoose » Jan 15 2016 11:30pm

Bazaki care to share what BMS you used for the off grid application? Did you roll your own?
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okashira   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » Jan 19 2016 11:35pm

eTrike wrote:Too bad this isn't in the "for sale" section ;). Care to share what you paid for it?

@wb9k are the Spark packs the M1B formula? That is EXT, correct?
Going to get that fixed. :)))
Finally got to doing a capacity on one of the cells...
Image
Voltage dropped from 3.334 to 3.323 under a 10A load

There is one of these at both ends of the module. I guess each is a 14s BMS
Image

We also have the motor, inverter and everything else... :)
Image
Image
Image

rated 400 ft lb of torque at the motor, and you can pick up the whole motor and gearbox
"Peace out - I'm done."
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Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
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okashira   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » Jan 20 2016 9:58pm

Completed a full cycle one cell #1 using my tester I usually use for 18650's. It can only charge at 5A max and discharge at 10A.

I charged to 3.6V with a 6A cut (C/10) and discharged to 2.5V at 10A. About 56.5Ah with those settings. My tester goes a little inaccurate at 10A and I can't remember if it reads low or high. I may hook up and discharge 6 cells in series with my Icharger at 30A.

Image

The car had about 4k mile so they should be like new.
We're going to sell 3 of them and pull apart this first one.
listed in used for sale forum...

Here is a quick test of DCIR.. note that this is with the cell as is sitting for months at 3.334V before I loaded it at 10A:
Image

Voltage went from 3.334 to 3.323 or pulse DCIR of 0.0011 Ohm per group of 3 cells.
"Peace out - I'm done."
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okashira   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » Jan 20 2016 10:12pm

Repeated DCIR test on the cell I cycled ...
Image

0.0006 Ohm voltage only dropped by 0.006V at 10A.
(voltage was dropping in chart because I just stopped a charge)
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

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wb9k   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by wb9k » Jan 20 2016 11:32pm

eTrike wrote:@wb9k are the Spark packs the M1B formula? That is EXT, correct?
The Spark packs use the Gen 1.5 Amp 20 cell. M1B, yes, EXT, no. They're not the same thing. There have been a lot of small flavor changes over the past two years...honestly I'm not totally up to speed on what got introduced when.

The pcb's on the ends of the module are "MBB's", just a part of a distributed BMS system. These boards monitor voltages and contain balancers, but can only operate as a slave as programmed.
dh
2009 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2008 Prius with Hymotion L5 PCM
2011 Rose Xing Fu 48V 500 Watt commuter scooter (now departed)
1984 Honda Interceptor 48V electric conversion motorcycle
Under construction: 2008 Miles ZX40ST truck with altered DC drivetrain
Departed: 2002 VW Jetta TDI which was run for a time partly on WVO.
Amateur radio station run entirely on solar/battery power.
"You can tell I'm a troublemaker, because I plug in my car."

okashira   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » Jan 21 2016 11:02pm

We did figure out how to get the cells out without damaging or stressing them...
Image
That's the first one, dinged the side a little bit because I was careless.

It's a little labor intensive, but we're going to make some packs for spot welders / icharger power supply's and sell the rest (undamaged) cells
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by ABritInNY » May 15 2018 12:12pm

okashira wrote:
Jan 21 2016 11:02pm
We did figure out how to get the cells out without damaging or stressing them...
Image
That's the first one, dinged the side a little bit because I was careless.

It's a little labor intensive, but we're going to make some packs for spot welders / icharger power supply's and sell the rest (undamaged) cells
I have the opportunity to pickup a few of these modules but in a slightly different configuration of 6s13p (same 105lb module weight) they've been sitting in a warehouse the last 4 years, can bus still reports all as ok and the price for 5kwh (even with shipping) is very attractive (to me.)
My main concern though is how to successfully remove the cells from the modules without damaging or stressing them, so I'm very interested in the technique you used to successfully remove them, I really don't mind it being Labour intensive, I'd take my time anyway.
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
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miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by miro13car » May 16 2018 8:15am

As I can see from Okashira pictures his cells are 2013.
I have like 30 such cells sitting in my basement for over 5 years, they are all still above 3.2 V .
removing cells from modules can be a pain with terminals welded
but unlike in Nissan Leaf modules, A123 cells are not glued together.

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by 999zip999 » May 16 2018 10:02am

I would ask Okashia as the tabs look very shoot. I have looked at karma friskerr packs and it looks like you can only get a very short tab. 1 aluminum 1 Copper.

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by ABritInNY » May 16 2018 4:58pm

999zip999 wrote:
May 16 2018 10:02am
I would ask Okashia as the tabs look very shoot. I have looked at karma friskerr packs and it looks like you can only get a very short tab. 1 aluminum 1 Copper.
I was thinking that if they are very short, I could perhaps do what others have done and either drill or hole punch thru them and use bolts to make series connections and to attach balance wiring to, but I need some tab to work with, if they are welded and need to be cut free I may not have that much and I don't wanna waste my money on something I cannot reuse.
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion
Kayman Flash+ 350w Mxus geared hub, dual 36v 5.2ah batts 10.4ah 13a-15a ESC
Freway Vr01, 27sp Pedelec 250w Bafang geared hub, (2x) 36v 5.2ah batt, FVS ESC limited to 10a!! (yup sloow on roads but great on trails ;)

okashira   10 kW

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by okashira » May 20 2018 10:19pm

miro13car wrote:
May 16 2018 8:15am
As I can see from Okashira pictures his cells are 2013.
I have like 30 such cells sitting in my basement for over 5 years, they are all still above 3.2 V .
removing cells from modules can be a pain with terminals welded
but unlike in Nissan Leaf modules, A123 cells are not glued together.
Mine were glued. It's a pita and not worth the time/risk to disassemble the module.
"Peace out - I'm done."
-- Bernhard Riemann, 1859

edisonmotors.net
Tesla Model S 18650 cells - like new - and custom packs from Tesla cells for sale. Any shape Any power Any capacity.
PM me or search my threads.

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ABritInNY   100 W

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Re: Genuine A123 AMP20 Module!

Post by ABritInNY » May 21 2018 11:28am

Thanks for the reply Okashira, I appreciate the heads-up. I didn't get much follow up info from the vendor or I would have asked if the cells are glued together or not. At the price I was going to pay, I thought it may be a risk worth taking, since all the cell data from storage checked out. I would have got over 150 pouches for the price of 15 new ones.
I guess if it were an easy disassembly, the seller would just do it himself
EEB frame set, 1500w Leafmotor 4t winding, Powervelocity 18fet/Lyen 18 fet 4110 ESC, 24s 30ah prismatic cell Lifepo4 batt w/60a-120a BMS, CA V3, Dropper Seat post.
Fusion 48v AGM (4x 12v 15ah) 1000w nom DD rear hub, 50a max ESC, 21sp FS Genesis overkill 650b conversion
Kayman Flash+ 350w Mxus geared hub, dual 36v 5.2ah batts 10.4ah 13a-15a ESC
Freway Vr01, 27sp Pedelec 250w Bafang geared hub, (2x) 36v 5.2ah batt, FVS ESC limited to 10a!! (yup sloow on roads but great on trails ;)

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