New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charge

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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CHESTERFRANTZ   1 µW

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New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charge

Post by CHESTERFRANTZ » Dec 30 2015 11:07am

in sept I ordered from china Shenzhen Honshaoshend a triangle battery 145SP 12.5 AH 52 Volt Samsung lion 25R
then I heard about bb03 new release so I waited. I just got the bike together in dec

I measured the batt volts 27.8v at main lead (xt90) 30.9 volts (way low )

at charger lead (xt60) 30.9 volts

I tried the charger they sent it is putting out 58.9 volts, fan never comes on, doesn't get warm
I bought a very nice charger at luna, it is putting out 58.9 volts, fan comes on for a second then shuts off.

I can measure battery volts with charger in, it is around 54 volts(main lead)

I suspect both chargers are fine.
the battery refuses to accept any charge (I suspect due to protective circuitry on the battery or charger)


Shenzhen Honghaosheng Electronics Co., Ltd.


they want me to measure how many amps are coming from the charger. how do I do this? I suspect it is 0 due to battery management system- I am not familiar with battery management system. I am also not familiar with what kind of low voltage protection on the charger or the battery, so any explination would be great!

what is going on? any tips? how do I measure how much amps is coming from the battery charger?

they are saying battery was perfect when shipped, I did leave it in the box for a few months, payed with pay pal this is my first e bike, I am an rc guy very familiar with lipo packs, never had a problem.
I should have bought from luna or other vendor, I will listen next time.
here are the q they had for me.
Hi Frants,



I have discuss with our enginner as your battery pack problem.



Please help to answer us below questions:

1. the battery pack if can normal charging?

2.Please tell me which conenctor you test? XT60 or XT90.

3.how much is the charging voltage?

4.how much is the charging current?



Our enginner will analise the situation.and try to help you deal with it.

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marty   10 MW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by marty » Dec 30 2015 12:40pm

Try prayer and leave the charger charging for 24 hours.
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mushymelon   1 kW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by mushymelon » Dec 30 2015 5:42pm

Some 14s Bms' will show 20v to 30v if the balance wires are disconnected but will deliver no usable current.
Basicly the bms is turned off and some voltage will pass through. Just a guess but possibly one of the balance wires is broken.

Matt

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by dogman dan » Dec 31 2015 7:23am

After a few months, you are now on your own pretty much. I mean, maybe they will send you a bms, or maybe you will have to buy one. Too late to do anything about it by pay pal.

The only way to measure the amps would be to put a amp meter/watt meter on the charger. They are cheap enough to try it, if it will help convince them to send you a new bms. Look on ebay, the typical blue 60v one will do you fine, at about 12 bucks.

As said above, it could easily be as simple as a wire got disconnected, the bms powers up by one or two of the small wires to the bms. So if that one happened to be loose, the bms would remain turned off.

Last ditch thing, if the company tells you to get lost, it's possible to run the pack temporarily without a bms, till you get one.

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marty   10 MW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by marty » Dec 31 2015 9:49am

Test don't guess. Open up the battery. Take some pictures. Measure voltage where wires connect to BMS.

We need dnmun here.
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2old   100 kW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by 2old » Dec 31 2015 10:48am

Doesn't PayPal provide six (6) month protection now? If so, I would explore that avenue before opening the battery and giving them a chance to void the warranty. I have found PayPal to provide excellent protection for discrepant products.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by dogman dan » Jan 01 2016 5:46am

6 months for paypal? I had no idea. In that case, don't do anything the vendor does not say yet.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 02 2016 12:52pm

How long have you had on the charger ? It could take 6 hours or more now to fully balance. Plug it in for many hours and give it a chance. Can you see the bms ?
Where do you live ?

CHESTERFRANTZ   1 µW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by CHESTERFRANTZ » Jan 03 2016 12:26pm

thank you everyone so much for your replyes!!!

mushymelon-paypal is 6 months now!, I don't know what the exceptions are. will prob do this. I really don't wanna ship a bad lipo, it has the lying 12 v sticker on it so they didn't have to pack it right"we put this lable on it for your shipping convienience", so that will be interesting- saw a post on this dirty secret.

marty-i cant see anything is all shrink wraped up, ill remove and dig in if pay pal doesn't work and look at bms wire. I would love to dig in right now but will wait. I asked the company what kind of bms it is, hoping to find a manual. I still don't get why the 3 volt difference between the charge lead and the main lead, maby the manual will have answers. the company has been good at replying back, definite language barrier (google translator).

999- I stuck on charger for 24 hours, no luck but thx! I live in salt lake city.

thanks everyone. so neat that a newbie can get good help! This is my first bike, ill post what happens, what I find out! pay pal looks to take a while so it might be a month to resolve.

CHESTERFRANTZ   1 µW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by CHESTERFRANTZ » Jan 03 2016 12:29pm

I missed dogman dan, I wont do anything till paypal, thanks for info on measuring amps and idea of pulling bms off.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 03 2016 1:25pm

What I would do is access the bms and check the cells at the plug.
1. 2.88volt
2. 3.00v
3. 3.30v

14. X.xx volt
Write it down on paper to make it ez to review .

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marty   10 MW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by marty » Jan 03 2016 2:03pm

999zip999 wrote:What I would do is access the bms and check the cells at the plug.
1. 2.88volt
2. 3.00v
3. 3.30v

14. X.xx volt
Write it down on paper to make it ez to review .
+1

Forget about PayPal. Shipping a defective battery to China is not safe. Battery fires on airplanes could cause issues.
CHESTERFRANTZ wrote:I did leave it in the box for a few months,
1 parallel group of cells might have drained from sitting. I charge once a month whether I ride bike or not.

Careful when cutting shrink wrap, duct tape. Don't puncture anything. Scissors are better then knifes. Take before and after surgery pictures to help others see how to do this.
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2old   100 kW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by 2old » Jan 03 2016 3:02pm

Seems like another good cautionary tale of why to but from Luna Cycle (I am not affiliated with them in any way, but don't like to throw money into the toilet either).

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 03 2016 3:07pm

Give us a picture. As it's impossible to ship a battery to China then pay to have it shipped back and come out ahead. It would have to be a paypal dispute and who knows their timeline I would like to know if it is really 6 months.

rick (nova scotia)   10 mW

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Re: New 52 volt battery putting out 30.1 volts, wont charg

Post by rick (nova scotia) » Jan 10 2016 10:20pm

I've done a fair amount of Ebaying, and I'm near 100% sure a paypal dispute must be opened within 45 days of purchase, so forget that.

Keep in mind I'm also a newb, but read a lot in the last few months...OK.

Seems your way below LVC and there is likely no way to charge it "normally" however I do believe I came across this bit of info once. I believe you can bypass the BMS, and trickle charge it through the output leads ? As I understood it it MUST be a slow charge, is probably not recommended, and is no guarantee it will work, but might. If you can get it up to whatever the LVC is probably 42V ? through the output leads, then it may be a normal battery, and able to charge through the charge (input) leads.

Yeah hindsight is 20-20, but you should have checked it (maybe charged it) long ago, then you would have had your paypal protection. Pretty basic knowledge NOT to let your lithium get too low in Vs, or this is what happens. That said it may have had a problem from the start. I leave my laptop battery sit for 6 months at a time, (it's 8 years old) when I change the clocks twice a year, I clean out the dust, charge, and partially discharge the battery, and remove it for another 6 months.

I know if it were mine I'd get it hooked up right away (maybe in a safe place) as the lower the voltage the less of a chance of a recovery.

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