The Best Battery Bang For Your Buck!!!

hie2kolob

10 W
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
91
Location
Majestic Wasatch Mountains, Utah USA
After five BBS02 conversions over a period of eighteen months I have finally come up with what I believe to be a suitable and somewhat stealthy way to carry a LIPO battery pack on my bike. At $175.00 this battery pack also happens to be the “best bang for your buck!”

bp9.jpg

This 10AH battery pack is made using six 5000mAh 4S1P hard case LIPO packs from Hobby King. By placing four batteries as a base and stacking two batteries on top a nice angular configuration can be made.

But what material would best be used for the enclosure? I thought about bending aluminum or possibly sewing something out of canvas or maybe Kydex or some other kind of plastic. But in the end I decided to try remolding PVC pipe. A mold was made by cutting a wood block to the desired size. After measuring the perimeter of the block I found the size to be close to the circumference of a 4” PVC drain pipe. Be aware that this is the thin walled stuff that is used for drainage not the schedule 40 high-pressure PVC.

bp2.jpg

I preheated the oven to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and placed a 14” length of 4” thin walled PVC pipe on a cookie sheet. (Note: this is best done when the wife is out shopping and it is a good idea to open any nearby windows as PVC can release toxic fumes when heated.) When the oven reached temperature I warmed the PVC pipe for only three to three and a half minutes. Then wearing leather gloves I transformed the PVC pipe by pushing it over the wood block mold. In order to make this process easier I rounded off the sharp edges on one end of the block. After allowing the PVC to cool it was removed from the wood mold by placing the bottom edge of the PVC against the edge of a table and tapping the center of the wood block with a hammer.

bp1.jpg

Next the end caps. I wanted one end to be solid and immovable so I took a scrap of 6” schedule 40 PVC pipe and cut it lengthwise so when it was heated in the oven it would lay flat. After five to six minutes in the oven at 350 degrees it was laid on a flat surface and a cookie sheet was placed on top of it with some weight. When it was cool I traced the shape of the molded PVC case on the thicker piece of flat PVC. This was cut out and attached using PVC primer and glue to weld it into place. Since the other end cap needs to be removable for servicing and balancing it was cut from ½ plywood. The plywood end cap was then drilled with a ½ inch bit to accommodate the battery cable and two smaller holes drilled on the top and the bottom for nylon pins to hold the end cap in place. The two nylon pins were purchased from an automotive store. These are the type of pins that are used to hold the automotive plastic upholstery in place.

bp3.jpg

Can PVC be painted? Yes, but it needs to be prepped using acetone. Before painting apply a little acetone by rag. This will temporarily soften the PVC and allow the paint to be embedded in the plastic.

bp4.jpg

Now how to connect this thin PVC battery case to a bike frame in a way where it won’t be shattered apart in rough road conditions? This can be achieved by constructing a lightweight mount using sheet aluminum. This was made with the aid of a local aluminum siding contractor. The sheet aluminum can be purchased for around $5 and the sheet metal shop allowed me free access to their metal brake to bend the one-inch sides. The sheet metal was then attached to the frame by drilling two holes and screwing it to the water bottle mounts.

A thin layer of foam rubber is placed in the sheet metal mount before inserting the molded battery pack in order to absorb shock. Finally the battery pack is held in place using a single 15” rubber bungee cord that is bolted eyelet to eyelet after the S hooks have been removed. The bungee cord is wrapped around the bike frame, the mount and the battery pack.

bp5.jpg

Approx. total cost of the 10Ah pack:
$150.00 6 – 5000mAh 4S1P hard pack Hobby King batteries
$5.00 wire and connectors from Hobby King
$2.00 wood mold made from 6”x 6”x18”
$1.50 4”pipe 24” long thin wall drain PVC
.50 6” pipe 5” long scrap schedule 40 PVC
$5.00 6 ¼” x 14 3/4” sheet aluminum
.50 2 – 5mm counter sunk screws
.80 2 – nylon auto pins
$2.00 15” bungee
$175.00 Total with Shipping

As you can see there is also a lightweight aluminum Schwinn rack mounted to the seat post that can carry another 20AH pack if required. This rack can be purchased at Walmart for $15.00 and the canvas battery case was acquired on eBay for around $10 with shipping.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schwinn-Deluxe-Alloy-Rear-Rack/17248454

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-E-Bike-Battery-Case-Nylon-Bag-Wilderness-Energy-Electric-Bike-Kit-eBike-/301854955371?hash=item4647f5176b

bp6.jpg

Trek Full Suspension Fuel with a total of 30AH. It is not recommended that any more that 10AH be carried on the back rack when biking off road. The weight may fracture the bike frame at the seat post or break the bike rack.

bp7.jpg

Cannondale SL1 Trail 10AH

View attachment 2
 
I really like the reforming of the PVC pipe - it's a novel way to make a battery enclosure :)
 
Nice, I use a similar technique except with .220 acrylic sheets, sheets of foam on the inside (I use the multistar packs, need more protection), and duct tape for the angles I can't make lol. It's rarely very pretty but fitting 14s/30AH of LiPo entirely inside the frame is challenging on a small frame. Yours looks much nicer.

There was a sale on 16AH 4s batteries last week that was the best price per KWH I have ever seen. https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=66486 $51 per battery $153 for 16 AH. I ended up buying 14 of these like some sort of crazy person. It's worth mentioning that these batteries are really easy to separate into 2s packs so you can bump up to 14s. They are not glued together like some of the other ones.
 
Love the box, very nice. Thanks for showing us how you form the pvc. Possibly the most interesting to me is how you can turn round pipe into a nice flat sheet.

That opens up lots of possibilities. Once flat, surely you can then reheat to let it form to other shapes, like a rear fender, ventilated controller covers, side covers for homebuilt frames, etc etc etc. Pipe is cheap, so I love this technique.

Re the rear rack, you can add supports from the rack back to the seat tube, making a triangle. This will prevent breaking the rack, or the seatpost, and stiffen up the rack so it won't wag. But even with that support, ideally carry no more than 10 pounds back there. 48v 10 ah is about 8 pounds.
 
LyonNightroad said:
Nice, I use a similar technique except with .220 acrylic sheets, sheets of foam on the inside (I use the multistar packs, need more protection), and duct tape for the angles I can't make lol. It's rarely very pretty but fitting 14s/30AH of LiPo entirely inside the frame is challenging on a small frame. Yours looks much nicer.

There was a sale on 16AH 4s batteries last week that was the best price per KWH I have ever seen. https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=66486 $51 per battery $153 for 16 AH. I ended up buying 14 of these like some sort of crazy person. It's worth mentioning that these batteries are really easy to separate into 2s packs so you can bump up to 14s. They are not glued together like some of the other ones.

Wow, those 16AH are huge! Do you have any pics or a link that shows your battery build?
 
dogman dan said:
Love the box, very nice. Thanks for showing us how you form the pvc. Possibly the most interesting to me is how you can turn round pipe into a nice flat sheet.

That opens up lots of possibilities. Once flat, surely you can then reheat to let it form to other shapes, like a rear fender, ventilated controller covers, side covers for homebuilt frames, etc etc etc. Pipe is cheap, so I love this technique.

Re the rear rack, you can add supports from the rack back to the seat tube, making a triangle. This will prevent breaking the rack, or the seatpost, and stiffen up the rack so it won't wag. But even with that support, ideally carry no more than 10 pounds back there. 48v 10 ah is about 8 pounds.

Yeah, I was going to initially go with Kydex but the PVC did not need to be seamed and it just happened to be the right size.

I couldn't find an aesthetically pleasing way to support the back rack on my Cannondale. Hence, I fractured and welded my frame several times and have now moved to a full suspension for most of my off road riding. You are right though, best to not haul any more than 10 pounds on the back rack.
 
hie2kolob,

Those two bikes are some nice clean builds! And having the capability of adding more capacity to the back rack only when needed is a good way to cut down on weight.

I like your new PVC battery design, great idea! I was leaning towards changing from my LIPO packs to a 18650 battery pack with the newly designed Shark battery enclosure. But with this PVC enclosure you designed I can save over $300 for a similar size pack and mount it inside my bike triangle just like the Shark pack.

I have a couple questions. First, are you using these hard case battery packs from Hobby King? If so, these are the packs I am currently using and they work great!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_Hardcase_Pack.html

T50004S-20HC.jpg

Next, could you post the exact dimensions of the wood block you use as your mold? I want to make sure that they don't fit too tight. It is very kind of you to take the time to share your ideas with us!

Cheers!
 
@OP,

Great way to manipulate PVC and very creative.

@easyrider,

Well, you wouldn't be saving all that money as good quality 18650's usually come with more usable charge cycles and are inherently safer, easier to shape/conform into your frame, but more difficult to wire up. You may also look at the possibly figuring out a way to use the Multistar branded batteries as they have various capacities from 10 to 20A/hr so you won't need to parallel the packs at all--simpler wiring. I use the 20A/hr in both 4S and 6S and they seem to discharge well together (14S) and stay well balanced as long as I don't take them down past 3.7V. The large 4S packs are very versatile as you can also use them for inverter duties.
 
ecobully said:
@OP,

Great way to manipulate PVC and very creative.

@easyrider,

Well, you wouldn't be saving all that money as good quality 18650's usually come with more usable charge cycles and are inherently safer, easier to shape/conform into your frame, but more difficult to wire up. You may also look at the possibly figuring out a way to use the Multistar branded batteries as they have various capacities from 10 to 20A/hr so you won't need to parallel the packs at all--simpler wiring. I use the 20A/hr in both 4S and 6S and they seem to discharge well together (14S) and stay well balanced as long as I don't take them down past 3.7V. The large 4S packs are very versatile as you can also use them for inverter duties.


I agree that the 18650's are safer and easier to maintain especially with the protection of a BMS.

But there may be some question as to value or the usable charge cycle per dollar when comparing the two. The LIPO packs I have been using for the past year have nearly 200 cycles on them already and they are still going strong. Let's say that I was able to get another 200 cycles over the next year. That would make a total of 400 cycles. With my LIPO packs costing 1/3 of a 18650 pack the 18650's would have to provide 3 time more or 1200 cycles in order to break even (400 x 3 = 1200). At my personal use rate which is 200 cycles per year it would take 6 years to reach 1200 cycles with a 18650 pack, however that would never happen with the total life of the 18650's being good for 400-800 cycles. The way I see it using LIPO's will end up costing 2/3's of what I would pay for an equivalent 18650 pack.

The Hobby King 5000 Ah packs seem to be the best value pack out there. They have a durable hard case and the wire harness is easy with the 4mm bullet-connectors that can be interconnected to each other. If a cell in one of these smaller packs goes out it is more cost effective and safer to replace the entire pack. And they will also fit this new PVC enclosure.
 
easyryder said:
hie2kolob,

Those two bikes are some nice clean builds! And having the capability of adding more capacity to the back rack only when needed is a good way to cut down on weight.

I like your new PVC battery design, great idea! I was leaning towards changing from my LIPO packs to a 18650 battery pack with the newly designed Shark battery enclosure. But with this PVC enclosure you designed I can save over $300 for a similar size pack and mount it inside my bike triangle just like the Shark pack.

I have a couple questions. First, are you using these hard case battery packs from Hobby King? If so, these are the packs I am currently using and they work great!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_Hardcase_Pack.html

View attachment 1

Next, could you post the exact dimensions of the wood block you use as your mold? I want to make sure that they don't fit too tight. It is very kind of you to take the time to share your ideas with us!

Cheers!

Yes, those are the batteries that fit this PVC enclosure.

The dimensions of the wood block to be used for the mold are: imj3.jpg

It is best to make the length of the wood block mold at lest 16 inches and the final length of the PVC enclosure 12 inches. You will want to make sure that the PVC pipe is cut to at least 13 inches before heated and you will find that you will lose about an inch after it cools on the wood block mold.

I have been using this enclosure for a couple weeks now and it works great! I have found that a couple wood screws in place of the nylon pins hold up better and are less expensive.

I hope this helps. Good luck!
 
The Hobby King 5000 Ah packs seem to be the best value pack out there.

In general, I think that is true.
But specificly, the Turnigy 20C soft-sided bricks are the best dollar/Watt value if one dosn't need the protection of the Hard-sides. The case does take up some volume and I have found that I can pack more capacity into a limited space w/the soft-sides.
I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think the Turnigy, 6S, 20C 5000mAh were at the top of the list on iceube57's battery spread sheet. They deffinately last longer than the Zippy's.
 
hie2kolob said:
easyryder said:
hie2kolob,

Those two bikes are some nice clean builds! And having the capability of adding more capacity to the back rack only when needed is a good way to cut down on weight.

I like your new PVC battery design, great idea! I was leaning towards changing from my LIPO packs to a 18650 battery pack with the newly designed Shark battery enclosure. But with this PVC enclosure you designed I can save over $300 for a similar size pack and mount it inside my bike triangle just like the Shark pack.

I have a couple questions. First, are you using these hard case battery packs from Hobby King? If so, these are the packs I am currently using and they work great!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_Hardcase_Pack.html

View attachment 2

Next, could you post the exact dimensions of the wood block you use as your mold? I want to make sure that they don't fit too tight. It is very kind of you to take the time to share your ideas with us!

Cheers!

Yes, those are the batteries that fit this PVC enclosure.

The dimensions of the wood block to be used for the mold are: View attachment 1

It is best to make the length of the wood block mold at lest 16 inches and the final length of the PVC enclosure 12 inches. You will want to make sure that the PVC pipe is cut to at least 13 inches before heated and you will find that you will lose about an inch after it cools on the wood block mold.

I have been using this enclosure for a couple weeks now and it works great! I have found that a couple wood screws in place of the nylon pins hold up better and are less expensive.

I hope this helps. Good luck!


Thanks mate for the dimensions and the write up on this battery enclosure! I can hardly wait to get out and give it a go! You are right, this enclosure doesn't cost hardly anything to build and is every bit as strong as any I have seen. I was surprised at just how easy this was to make. I most technical part of the process is cutting the wood block. Then after that this enclosure could be mass produced. As you can see I decided to cover mine with black duct tape.

Just one other question. The three battery packs in the back are difficult to monitor with the JST balance wires being too short. Do you have a solution for that?

Cheers!

batenc.jpg
 
Yes, that's what I use.
Also available from Hobby Partz and RC progressive.
The silicone ones are the nicest.

Here, I have one extension on each brick and one one each Battery Medic;

100_0018.JPG
 
Hehe... "Best Battery Bang For Your Buck" perhaps an unfortunate phrase where LiPO is concerned? I tend to view any batts as lowest cost per mile before replacement/recycling. Just a thought.
 
motomech said:
Yes, that's what I use.
Also available from Hobby Partz and RC progressive.
The silicone ones are the nicest.

Here, I have one extension on each brick and one one each Battery Medic;

View attachment 1

Yes, JST extensions. This is what I am using:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9737__JST_XH_4S_Wire_Extension_20cm_10pcs_bag_.html

JSTMF-4S-20cm.jpg
 
LockH said:
Hehe... "Best Battery Bang For Your Buck" perhaps an unfortunate phrase where LiPO is concerned? I tend to view any batts as lowest cost per mile before replacement/recycling. Just a thought.

HaHaHa! (I guess that it really isn't funny) "Best Battery Bang For Your Buck!" I must admit that I didn't think this through...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9mcNvOGKtI

hqdefault.jpg

http://www.diyrc.com/fire-pics.htm

DSC02892.JPG

I always charge my batteries either outside or in a grill covered fireplace indoors. I often use a Meanwell bulk changer that automatically turns off when the pack reaches 51 volts. As a second back up I plug the charger into a mechanical timer. I then set the timer on my smart phone to alert me to disconnect all wires when the charge is complete!

YOU CANNOT BE TOO CAREFUL WITH LIPO BATTERIES!!!

Please refer to this link: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52240
 
Hehe... Repeat "view any batts as lowest cost per mile before replacement/recycling." Yes/No? Watt exactly DOES "bang for the buck" mean, in battery terms? Something other than in terms of cost per mile over the useful life of the battery? Lightest weight per 1000/wattEVer watt-hours of usable capacity perhaps? Can recover from the most severe abuse maybe?

Signed - Confused
 
Back
Top