NCR18650GA cells - have I got what I paid for?

Hi All,

Hoping someone can put my mind at ease about some batteries in a pack I recently purchased - here is a photo. https://goo.gl/photos/PHpFGtE4e7QMFwFy8 They are marked as NCR18650GA but are also marked 'made in china'.

This concerned me because these packs (52v 14ah shark pack) were advertised with the following notes, which the 'made in china' contradicts;

"This is the same pack loaded with panasonic cells (same cell that Tesla uses) "

"We designed these packs using a common ebike case, but filled them with quality Japanese name brand 18650 cells utilizing the latest battery chemistry to get the highest possible power density. "

"These packs have more amp hours than any commercial ebike, who skimp and use Chinese cells which are known for being low power density and short battery life. In fact we so disbelieve in Chinese cells, we are not even offering them as an option. We only offer quality cells in our packs not cheap no name Chinese cells like almost everyone else does. "

I posted at electric bike.com but didn't get an answer, although one member states GA cells aren't made in china. Thread is here:. https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/batteries-aa/24645-battery-identification-what-are-these

Thanks all

I bought GA's 4 times before I got sent the real thing on ebay, and I wasn't buying the cheapest China retailers cells.

amen...

The seller slags off Chinese made cells in their description and then supplies a pack made with them !

Hilarious.

If you're not getting the 14Ah from the battery you should be worried.

Got a link to the seller?

This:

265chemic said:

They are marked as NCR18650GA but are also marked 'made in china'.

Click to expand...

compared to this:

filled them with quality Japanese name brand 18650 cells utilizing the latest battery chemistry to get the highest possible power density. "
<snip>
In fact we so disbelieve in Chinese cells, we are not even offering them as an option.

Click to expand...

means that no, you did not get what you paid for, because they do not have the cells they claim to have in them.

I would recommend going thru whatever buyer protection your payment method has, and getting your money back, and give the company back the deceptively-advertised product they sent you.

Here's the thing, I was initially considering building a pack but heard a lot of good things about Luna and when they did a summer special I went ahead, even though it was a bit more than I wanted to spend it was a comparatively good price. I'm giving Luna the benefit of the doubt though and hope that they are 'Japanese' cells (Panasonic/Sanyo) that are just made in china. I did pm Eric after his reply on electricbike explaining it before posting publicly here but I didn't get a response.
Here's the link to the battery, I bought it with a bbshd as a kit.

http://luna-mate.com/52v-13-5ah-ga-shark-battery-available-aus-and-nz/

And the full kit;

http://luna-mate.com/luna-mate-bafang-bbshd-1000w-kit

I was going to ask luna-mate too but wanted some opinions before doing so.

Edit: performance seems to be okay, I have done 22ks at about 500w average draw over a dozen or more trips while providing a reasonable amount of pedal input and the battery is usually down to ~51v (from 54.8v-80% charge)which then takes about an hour to charge back to 80%.

Thanks all!

theres made in japan GA w/ all-red wrapper w/ very faint embossed "NCR18650GA" etc. this is the sanyo-style wrapper

the made in china part has the panasonic style wrapper like what you have

so yes there's a good chance that your cells are GENUINE panasonic/sanyo. just not made in japan. whether there's a performance difference, i don't know

Good info Overclocker.

I'm sure Luna will update their listing promptly. Australia has pretty strong consumer protection laws.

Enjoy the new bike 265chemic.

Couple of google searches and it appears as tho Panasonic also make this cell in china that has reported same performance but 5% less cost. Looking at this site http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?406243-How-to-Know-Panasonic-18650-Battery-Manufacture-Date-Code it suggests these cells were made 16th September 2016. Dunno.

Hi All - either a coincidence or this thread possibly triggered clarification - Eric from Luna posted on the electricbike thread confirming Panasonic now make the cells in china/most of their production will be coming from there for this year.

"Guys Panasonic just opened a new factory in Suzhou china.

The newest GA cells are coming from there and I have heard most Panasonic GA cells will be made in Suzhou china in 2017."

I'm glad they are legit cells and I didn't think Luna with their reputation would risk it on using sub-par cells but seeing it contradicted the ad so heavily I needed to bring it up for discussion.

Sept 2016 date sounds right too - purchase date was mid December

Thanks all once again

Welcome to the future...

The new cells made in china have a higher mah rating 3450 than the ones made in Japan which were around 3350.

I have heard that all GA cell production in Japan has stopped and all new GA cells will be made in Panasonics new factory in Suzhou China.

We are re-wording our product adds.

If your pack is good, it's good, where ever the cells were made.

You were promised Japan made cells,, but as long as they are not actual counterfeit the harm is only in words. Which Luna will change now that the factory in Japan shut down.

So, does the pack perform, or not?

From my earlier post:

"performance seems to be okay, I have done 22ks at about 500w average draw over a dozen or more trips while providing a reasonable amount of pedal input and the battery is usually down to ~51v (from 54.8v-80% charge)which then takes about an hour to charge back to 80%.".

That's with the Luna charger with the 3 settings. It seems to go well at higher power draws too, but this is my first ebike so I don't have a direct comparison.

If I was judging solely on performance I wouldn't have had concerns, it was just the wording on the add which looks to be an innocent mistake of not updating/rewording the information to reflect the new origin.

I'm having fun with it, its a great product and apart from this detail I can't fault Luna-mates product or service.

Sweet,, you got what you paid for then.

I'm pretty sure the Osaka Japan plant is still pumping out the 2900Mah cell....
The Japan plant and China plant are pretty different, not the same machinery or process.
Japan production line is automated beyond belief, I'm pretty sure it's what the US Giga-factory is based off.
The China production plant isn't new, it been producing the older 18650 cells forever.

To be fair the GA isn't exactly a Panasonic cell.... It's kinda like Tesla vs VW.
Panasonic PD/PF is that real Tesla cell, can't fault the thing.
Sanyo GA cell is a VW, you know it's cheating on emission output (It's 3.4Ah capacity for 300 cycles at 0.000002C)

Hey could always be worse right...... Samsung 2600Mah cells are made in Malaysia

t3sla said:

....Panasonic PD/PF is that real Tesla cell, . ...

Click to expand...

? hmm ?.....last time i suggested that, a prominent member insisted the Tesla cell is actually the BE variant ! ..? :?

Hillhater said:

t3sla said:

....Panasonic PD/PF is that real Tesla cell, . ...

Click to expand...

? hmm ?.....last time i suggested that, a prominent member insisted the Tesla cell is actually the BE variant ! ..? :?

Click to expand...

They have changed a few times, depends on the generations BD is one of the older types then BE or A, B...
They are custom production runs but the 2900 is kinda the Daddy of them, I guess 3M could be viewed as the mother since lots of the raw materials come from them (that's why different manufactures usually make 'capacity' leaps together).

Be cool if the owner of the battery could scan the QR code on the cell
It can tell you the cell manufacturing date, that way we could figure out when the 3400 moved over to China (my guess is there is some production overlap between China/Japan)

What we need is a 100% charged and balance capacity test.

16th September 2016 is the manufacture date going by the earlier link provided. I don't have a wattmeter currently but may get one in future.