parallel packs?

mark.curry3

100 W
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Nov 20, 2014
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103
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Tampa, fl
parallel packs.png This is a 60v 40ah pack i got that appears to be 2 20ah packs in parallel (based on the 2 pairs of wires coming out). After a short while, the range dropped and charging time was cut in half. I suspect that one of the 20ah packs wrapped inside has become disengaged somehow, I checked in the bms and everything looked to be properly connected and there were no obvious problems, is there a way to check each 20ah side without tearing the whole thing apart? and does my assumption even make sense? any help would be appreciated.
 
It's possible that it is wired that way..but you'd have to open it up to find out.

Before you do, first check the BMS balance wires, measuring each cell's voltage, both when charged and when discharged to "empty" when it cuts out.

If all cells are about the same, then it's probably not a bad cell, and could be what you propose.

If one or more cells are a lot higher or lower than others, it's probably bad cell(s) or balance wire connections, etc.
 
probably. is it a lifepo4 pack? if so, then the one around 3.2v could be anywhere from nearly empty to nearly full, so it could take a very long time to balance it (days, weeks...) if it is close to empty.

if it is a different chemistry, then the whole pack is nearly empty.


i'd start charging it, and measure voltage at those balance wires during charge periodically. if the charger has a light to indicate stopped vs charging, then measure at both states on all cells, as it can tell you if some cells are higher internal resistance than others as you'll see a bigger jump in voltage on those vs others during the charging state vs the not charging state.


if the charger light cycles on and off normally during end of charging, then it is the right type to balance tha pack without manual intervention. if it just indicates end of charge and never cycles back on again, it means that every time it does that you will have to disconnect and reconnect it to keep balancing going.
 
How many wires ? Is it two 30v 40ah packs ?Like ping does. ? Is this a Lifepo4 pack if so. A close to full charge is 3.45v Meaning it can be charged to 3.6v but the curve speeds up after 3.45v to a fast over charge. Discharge to 3.1v as it races to zero or 2.8v. OR 3.6 to 2.8volt limit. Some bms's go to 3.8v but why they just bleed down to 3.6v ( most, not all ) try and fill up the low cell. Do you have a single cell charger ? Charge to match. As said earlier 3.4v to 3.3v can be a big difference in voltage and capacity.
Plus is it lifepo4 ?
 
A battery does not need sense to work. Your battery is out of balance. Balance your battery before use or first. Do not over discharge do not over discharge one cell. As that is what will happen if you use your battery you'll lower the Lowest cell 2.8v in your battery will die. I would charge my battery to 3.5 volt for all cells. See how it holds up. Monitor. Write down on paper cell voltage starting on the neg end # 1.

1. 3.25v
2. 3.34v
3. 3.36v


20. Xxx volts
You will find this very important.
Nice to have a simple single cell charger for lifepo4
 
I wanted to test the cell under load but needed to disconnect the sense plug to test without fear of frying the board. if I unplug the sense wires, will the bike get power so I can test with the lights on.
 
I fear that a cell may be bad. When I first got it, the charge would not go above 68V even after 12 hours charging. It then quickly settled to 66.Xv without use.
 
To get 40ah there is probably a group of cells. If one or more cells in the group are bad it will trip the bms early. So where's the link. Will need more support from you to help.
 
after looking closely it is obvious this is not a combination of two packs (one set of BMS wires). I have tried balance charging for a couple of days and after a few miles, the cell (s?) in question were at 3.21v while the others were at 3.34v (still). It appears i need to tear into the pack and replace the cell. My question is whether I need to get one or 2 cells (20s 2p Lifepo4), I know I could tear into it and check each one, but prefer to wait until the replacement cell has arrived before I open it up.
 
Yes I thought it was a 20s 2p. How old is this pack ? You could drop one set of parallel cells out if just one set is bad for a 19s pack if your bms can run at 19s. And If you can turn down your charger. So there are three if's that must be answered Yes first.
And answer this first.
1. 3.28v
2. 3.45v
3. 3.40


20. Xxx volts.
Now this is a must and first step. Write down on paper and share.
Still doing some guessing without pics of pack and bms hookups.
 
parallel packs.png
1-10---3.34
11---3.21
all others 3.34
The pack is only about 6 months old, and there were issues from the start. At first it would charge only to 69.xv and quickly settle to 66.3 without use. It would take 5-6 hours to charge and the range was about 35 miles (as opposed to my previous 40ah which got about 45 miles). The range quickly dropped to below 25 miles and charging time was cut in half(3 hrs+/-).
Now, after 18hrs charging, the pack shows 75.1V off the charger but settles to 66.4v after <1 mile. This morning it was 69.1v and I had taken it off the charger 12 hours before and just let it sit to check it. Based on what I've seen here, it appears that the cell in question drops quickly to the point where the entire pack voltage reached the cutoff point. So to answer the AH question,,, ????? don't know??? because of the apparently bad cell. Please note that these readings were not done under load as I don't know how to do that without fear of shorting the BMS (I did that once on another pack).
BTW the bike has 1000w motor, 3 speed controller (I have been running in "2nd" which gives about 22 mph)bike and me = around 500lbs
 

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So number 11 has loss capacity and has a high resistance. So it's always best to replace both # 11 cells which could help fix it. Is 11 buried in the middle ? Because some how there is a fog of this being a split pack ? Have you found this exact cell ?
 
I do not think this could be a split cell due to the presence of only one set of BMS wires. I would expect that there are 4 rows of 10 cells paired. I think that would make this one on the end of the third row. (1 sense wire per pair = 5x2 +1 )
 
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