Samsung EV batteries Fiat BMW

Inwo · Mar 8, 2017

Making second test. First full test of capacity.
Ebay "new" 75v/75ah pack.
My research shows 60ah.
Seller claims there are no specs from his source. Only customer tests showing 75ah capacity.

I'm not experienced enough to know whether nos pack need exercise to come up to full potential.
First test from 4v to 3v (low cell) was 55ah.
Batteries are now settled to 4.14 and balanced. 5,070 watts into them.

I'm not sure what I should accept or what level is worth complaining.
In 6 or 7 hrs I should know what I have.

View attachment 3

emiyata · Mar 10, 2017

As you already know If you charge 5.1kw in the pack assuming you started at cutoff you will never get 5.6kw. You may have wires and shunts that are making your reading seem 9% off. Did you verify your test equipment like the shunt and any voltage drops on wires? Best of luck with your new batteries!

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

Three ammeters agree.
As do voltmeters.
Was able to squeeze a little over 59ah out of them after a full cycle.
That follows my research of Fiat/Samsung batteries being 60ah.

There are others listed on Ebay as 75ah also Buyer beware.
They are on the way back.
May try to find 7s tesla modules.
Nothing seems to beat Volt batteries $/kw.

Greg555 · Mar 10, 2017

I can test mine if someone tells me how. I have 5S and 6S

Greg

emiyata · Mar 10, 2017

I see no real advantage of this graphite anode battery over your LTO pack. It is just a little bit lighter than LTO but not by much and none of the advantages that LTO offers.

fechter · Mar 10, 2017

My experience is that "virgin" cells need to be cycled a few times to reach maximum capacity.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

fechter said:
My experience is that "virgin" cells need to be cycled a few times to reach maximum capacity.

I did cycle once before my final conclusion.
Searched for that info and found conflicting information.
The difference between 60 and 75 is quite dramatic. My testing may have been skewed by finding information that the Samsung cells used in these cars were indeed 60ah.
Search also turned up that the original design was 60ah and a new design in the same package was 92ah.

Being respectful of the seller, paying shipping both ways. As it is always possible that it's my mistake.

Welcome other test results. It is not out of the question that I find other uses for these.

Immediate need was for a 50 mile Gem. Minimum 150ah or near 12kw. A full test would have meant not being able to return them.

Ready to test 8kw Volt batteries for range. A customer just found 16kw junkyard Volts for $1200. I paid double that for mine.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

Greg555 said:
I can test mine if someone tells me how. I have 5S and 6S

Greg

Simple enough for the rough accuracy needed to see the difference between 60 and 75.

I used an 8ohm 1200 watt load resistor thru analog ammeter, BMS-24 wattmeter, and China AH/ battery monitor.

However, any load while monitoring amps and time can get you in the ballpark.

It took me over 6 hours for each discharge test. As amps dropped below 10.
Charging and top balancing much longer. I paid particular attention to watching the first cell down. #13 It also was the last one up. A good sign. I charged it and a couple others independently to be sure all were full.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

I want to clarify my review.
It seems there are some of these for sale by forum members.
I highly recommend them.

They are great batteries. Some of the nicest design I've seen.
Bms leads. Quality welds and bars between cells. Nice covers and terminals.
About the size of a six-pack.

Just not worth the price I paid (new), and until other tests to the contrary, not 75ah.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

emiyata said:
As you already know If you charge 5.1kw in the pack assuming you started at cutoff you will never get 5.6kw. You may have wires and shunts that are making your reading seem 9% off. Did you verify your test equipment like the shunt and any voltage drops on wires? Best of luck with your new batteries!

I wish I could have kept them long enough for you to test!

Greg555 · Mar 10, 2017

How hard are these to test? I have 5S and 6S out of 2016 Fiat 500e

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

From google it looks like they are all 24kw packs. 97 cells.
250 watts each cell.
My 20s seemed to be max 5kw.
Seems to work out with my 60ah measurement.
I think you can take it to the bank that you have 250 watt 60ah cells.
Anyone advertising more should be able to back it up.
Best price I've seen for used EV batteries is $100/kw.
Could easily be worth much more to the right customer. Sound like yours are near new.

redilast · Mar 10, 2017

I'm seeing packs on ebay that look that same as yours that are claiming 20v, 60Ah.

amberwolf · Mar 10, 2017

@ Inwo:

Do you mean KWh? Or KW? they're very different things.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

Kwh
Kw is what sellers general use as shorthand for capacity.
I believe some of my power meters show capacity in watts too. Now I'll have to look.

Inwo · Mar 10, 2017

redilast said:
I'm seeing packs on ebay that look that same as yours that are claiming 20v, 60Ah.

Most likely 18.5v 5s pack.
A seller sells 12s Volt as 48v . :?:

amberwolf · Mar 10, 2017

Inwo said:
Kw is what sellers general use as shorthand for capacity.

Well, that's pretty dumb, because it's not capacity, it's power. :/ Is confusing at best, misleading at worst.

If I were to put 5kw into 5kwh worth of my EIG cells, for instance, I don't think it would like it very much, as it normally only charges at 0.5c.

But I could put 5kwh into the pack at it's proper rate and it'd be fine.

In other, non-technical sites or forums it might not matter, because hardly anyone would know the difference or care, but places like ES, for clarity, it's much better to use the terminology correctly--partly just so everyone is clear, but even more so that those that don't know yet will begin to learn the correct usages and be able to better understand things without as much confusion.

Greg555 · Mar 11, 2017

redilast said:
I'm seeing packs on ebay that look that same as yours that are claiming 20v, 60Ah.

These are mine. I'm the seller.

I have 5S And 6S so roughly 20v and 24v at current charge levels

60ah I put there based on this thread

redilast · Mar 11, 2017

Greg555 said:
redilast said:

I'm seeing packs on ebay that look that same as yours that are claiming 20v, 60Ah.

Click to expand...

These are mine. I'm the seller.

I have 5S And 6S so roughly 20v and 24v at current charge levels

60ah I put there based on this thread

So you don't have any equipment to test the capacity of these packs yourself? Might be a good thing to invest in if you plan to sell these kinds of packs regularly.

Also packs are usually rated based on their nominal voltage instead of their charge voltage. So 5s would usually be 5 * 3.6, 3.7 or 3.8 (so 18v, 18.5v, 19v etc).

I believe however that these EV packs are probably using a lower DOD and max charge voltage to get the cycles needed for an EV pack. So it's possible they may only see around 4v per cell fully charged.

Inwo · Mar 11, 2017

After testing similar packs I can almost guarantee these to be up to specs. If they are charged and still in balance.
They can be charged to 4.2v but very little energy above 4.1.
I pushed mine to 4.2, about 4.15 after settling, and down first cell to 3v. Not much there after 3.5v.
Almost exactly 60ah from 20s. 4 X 5 packs.
18.5v is more correct description.

These are great compact heavy duty batteries. Made from prismatic. 1p5s.
I would buy them if I had immediate need for them. Need 150ah and don't want to wire 3 sets. 2 is bad enough.

Inwo · Mar 12, 2017

A knowledgeable seller on Ebay tested some of his to over 100ah. ???? buyer beware
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-102Ah-TESTED-Lithium-Ion-Golf-Cart-battery-/222419957522?hash=item33c9433712:g:2XYAAOSwWxNYr5jf&vxp=mtr

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