bluetooth BMS?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
mpmoller   100 mW

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by mpmoller » Jul 11 2018 1:25pm

flippy wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:21pm
charging current and voltages need to be handled by the charger, not the bms. the bms is a PROTECTION device, it only does its job when shit goes OUT of spec.

if you got too much charging current you need to limit it at the charger side, not the battery side. or do you use the brake to keep the speed instead of lifting off the trottle?
Well thank you flippy... I guess.
Can you suggest me a charger that can charge a 72v (max 84v) 18ah battery?

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 11 2018 1:28pm

mpmoller wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:25pm
flippy wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:21pm
charging current and voltages need to be handled by the charger, not the bms. the bms is a PROTECTION device, it only does its job when shit goes OUT of spec.

if you got too much charging current you need to limit it at the charger side, not the battery side. or do you use the brake to keep the speed instead of lifting off the trottle?
Well thank you flippy... I guess.
Can you suggest me a charger that can charge a 72v (max 84v) 18ah battery?
I use meanwell PSU's for my chargers. Here's my thread on building chargers.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=90292&p=1316096#p1316096
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flippy   10 kW

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by flippy » Jul 11 2018 1:32pm

mpmoller wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:25pm
Well thank you flippy... I guess.
Can you suggest me a charger that can charge a 72v (max 84v) 18ah battery?
mean well ELG150-42A and put 2 of them in series set to 42V each. 300W total charging power and it will fill your battery in under 5 hours from dead. and it's totally silent and portable.
if you want more power you can change the 150 to 300 or even 600 i think.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by mpmoller » Jul 11 2018 1:45pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:28pm
mpmoller wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:25pm
flippy wrote:
Jul 11 2018 1:21pm
charging current and voltages need to be handled by the charger, not the bms. the bms is a PROTECTION device, it only does its job when shit goes OUT of spec.

if you got too much charging current you need to limit it at the charger side, not the battery side. or do you use the brake to keep the speed instead of lifting off the trottle?
Well thank you flippy... I guess.
Can you suggest me a charger that can charge a 72v (max 84v) 18ah battery?
I use meanwell PSU's for my chargers. Here's my thread on building chargers.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=90292&p=1316096#p1316096
I dont feel like i got the knowhow to make one of these conversions. But thanks anyways!

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 11 2018 9:53pm

Hey everyone,

I was looking at the 20S smart BMS to buy a few more of them and there's a link on them now for this LCD.

Image

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Y6sosn

In the description is says this:

if you need LCD display , click this link :

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Smart-In ... 66013.html

And then you get to an interesting LCD that has 4 buttons that supposedly can program the BMS and also acts as a dashboard.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Smart-I ... 13d0XaQ4sl

These BMS only have a single UART so you choose what it connects to. USB, BT or LCD, but not 2 or more at the same time.
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flippy   10 kW

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by flippy » Jul 11 2018 10:43pm

mpmoller wrote: I dont feel like i got the knowhow to make one of these conversions. But thanks anyways!
Check the meanwell number on your local supplier, that only requires you to connect one postive to the negative of the second one and setting the voltagr to 42V om each charger to get to 84. You can turn the current pot to the maximum if you have enough air cooling around the unit.
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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 12 2018 9:39am

flippy wrote:
Jul 11 2018 10:43pm
mpmoller wrote: I dont feel like i got the knowhow to make one of these conversions. But thanks anyways!
Check the meanwell number on your local supplier, that only requires you to connect one postive to the negative of the second one and setting the voltagr to 42V om each charger to get to 84. You can turn the current pot to the maximum if you have enough air cooling around the unit.
MPMOLLER...
Making a charger is not rocket science. I use the Meanwell SE-600 series PSU's. They are pretty bullet proof.
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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 13 2018 3:03pm

If people are in the USA and want something from IC GOGOGO such as a smart BMS, I'm about to order a few items myself. You can PM me and I'll add you to my order. WE can talk about money in the PM.

This is their main page on aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/285600 ... 40feB4hXZS

Items discussed in this thread:

32S smart BMS with LCD and BT: (LIPO, LION, LIFE, LTO)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg


24S smart BMS with LCD and BT: (LIPO, LION, LIFE, LTO)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg

20S smart BMS with BT: (LIPO, LION and LIFE)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg

16S smart BMS with BT: (LIPO, LION and LIFE)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg

7S to 112S BMS/balancer with LCD: (LIPO, LION, LIFE, LTO)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg
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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by Alex07 » Jul 15 2018 1:01am

does anyone know how to get the UART sn30183 to work on a windows 10 PC ?

it installed software and logs in ok.

also put the usb cable and it installed some drivers ? but then when I run the JBDtools apps.

the comm port has nothing when I refresh and the blue light never flashes inside just solid blue ? anyone have any luck

by the way the Phone app works perfect when I plug in the wirless connection

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by Alex07 » Jul 15 2018 8:52pm

Also how long should it take to balance ?

so it does 50ma balance current but it pulses this every 5 seconds.

I have a 10ah 36v battery I am trying to balance, left it over night and it barely changed ?

the difference is only around 200millivolts ? i.e max cell was 3.998 and the weakest was 3.789v

how can I tell the balancing is working ? I can see it flashes B, but I can barely notice after hours that the voltage is dropping ? I man the voltage drops when I take it off the charger fast ! but its the BMs does not drain it down much or fast ?

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by themelon » Jul 15 2018 9:34pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jul 13 2018 3:03pm

7S to 112S BMS/balancer with LCD: (LIPO, LION, LIFE, LTO)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de2Pn5Msg
Did you happen to look at the unpopulated 4 pin header next to the LCD plug on these ones? I see two lines running to the stm chip so perhaps it's another serial port?

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by flippy » Jul 15 2018 11:27pm

Alex07 wrote:
Jul 15 2018 8:52pm
Also how long should it take to balance ?

so it does 50ma balance current but it pulses this every 5 seconds.

I have a 10ah 36v battery I am trying to balance, left it over night and it barely changed ?

the difference is only around 200millivolts ? i.e max cell was 3.998 and the weakest was 3.789v

how can I tell the balancing is working ? I can see it flashes B, but I can barely notice after hours that the voltage is dropping ? I man the voltage drops when I take it off the charger fast ! but its the BMs does not drain it down much or fast ?
A bms balance feature is to KEEP it balanced, not make it balanced. You should do that with a external balance charger.

Charge it up to 4.1V per cell. That increases the current during balancing and also makes the differencs between cells more pronounced.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by themelon » Jul 16 2018 12:57am

flippy wrote:
Jul 15 2018 11:27pm
Alex07 wrote:
Jul 15 2018 8:52pm
Also how long should it take to balance ?

so it does 50ma balance current but it pulses this every 5 seconds.

I have a 10ah 36v battery I am trying to balance, left it over night and it barely changed ?

the difference is only around 200millivolts ? i.e max cell was 3.998 and the weakest was 3.789v

how can I tell the balancing is working ? I can see it flashes B, but I can barely notice after hours that the voltage is dropping ? I man the voltage drops when I take it off the charger fast ! but its the BMs does not drain it down much or fast ?
A bms balance feature is to KEEP it balanced, not make it balanced. You should do that with a external balance charger.

Charge it up to 4.1V per cell. That increases the current during balancing and also makes the differencs between cells more pronounced.
And 200mV isn't exactly small. That can be 15-25% of your useable cell capacity.

One option is to charge the low cells individually. There are a number of inexpensive hobby chargers that you can set your charge rate and termination voltage as you need. Just never use more than one of these chargers at a time on a pack as generally the DC and AC grounds of the input and output are not isolated and you will blow up chargers and possibly batteries if you miss a common ground.

Having said that though you can end up in worse shape if the low cell you are trying to "catch up" is actually a weak cell. But if that is the case the cell needs to be replaced anyway so it's not really worse, just helps diagnose a bad cell.

If you can afford one there are a number of hobby chargers on the market that will do 10s, I'm assuming 10 by your voltage, that will give you charge and discharge curves if you use their PC software. It's a good way to get in balance and diagnose a pack for bad cells.

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   100 W

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Jul 16 2018 2:00am

Alex07 wrote:
Jul 15 2018 8:52pm
Also how long should it take to balance ?

so it does 50ma balance current but it pulses this every 5 seconds.

I have a 10ah 36v battery I am trying to balance, left it over night and it barely changed ?

the difference is only around 200millivolts ? i.e max cell was 3.998 and the weakest was 3.789v

how can I tell the balancing is working ? I can see it flashes B, but I can barely notice after hours that the voltage is dropping ? I man the voltage drops when I take it off the charger fast ! but its the BMs does not drain it down much or fast ?
I'm not sure what BMS you are using so you might want to tell this information first.
In my case it took around 15 minutes, but my cells were pretty much balanced to begin with.

You can set the target difference in the bluetooth app, in my case I set up to 0.002V. In the end all the cells were within this range.
Balancing is working this way:
-1st: you fully charge your battery
-2nd: disconnect the charger
-3rd: use the bluetooth app to enable balancing

The BMS will look at all the cells voltages and drain the cells that are higher until they all reach the same level as the less charged one.
Once they are all within the difference you set, then the balancing action will stop and you'll be good to go.

But again, that might depend on what BMS you're using.

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by Alex07 » Jul 16 2018 7:15am

I have the xioxing bluetooth BMS from this thread not the one with the lcd.

I am using the bluetooh APP.

unfortunately I do not have a balance charger, I have left it 24 hours and done another charge cycle.. so it seems to be balancing as now the gap from the highest to lowest cell has closed from :
the difference is only around 200millivolts ? i.e max cell was 3.998 and the weakest was 3.789v

to 4.144 to 4v i.e 144millivolts in 24 hours. so 56 Millitvolts a day , so it should be finished in 4 days lol ?

I still cannot get the desktop app to work as it doesn't pick up my comm port ?

for balance start voltage I have 4v and max voltage per cell set to 4.18v for my lg2.85mah 18650's does that sound ok ? this is an old pack.... so hopeing it can do its job from 4v.. otherwise I could start balance at 3.5v ?

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ElectricGod   10 MW

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 16 2018 12:38pm

Run your pack down a little.

What's your balance turn-on voltage? To get balancing started earlier set this value lower. Which balance mode are you using?

Image

Com port issue...when you plug in the USB box into your computer do you hear the up tone sequence that indicates that windows detected the hardware getting plugged in? Have you checked in device manager for the com port? Whatever device manager says it is, that's what you enter in the app.
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20-30S 80A smart BMS

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 16 2018 7:59pm

This BMS is just the big brother to the smaller BMS that we have seen so much of in this thread. And when I say big brother, I really mean it! This thing is BIG, but it's also capable of 20-30S and from the factory good for 80 amps. However, everything about it says that 80 amps is just for starters. Replace all those pathetic HY3712 mosfets with much better 150 volt mosfets (AOT2500) and populate all P- 20 positions and there's no reason to believe that 300 - 400 amps is not possible. Otherwise, decent copper busses, lots of places for shunts and lots of places for mosfets. While quite large, this BMS has lots of current handling capability.

The existing mosfets are HY3712's...which are downright horrible mosfets. The original part number is 2SK3712, but this is the Chinese version so we all know that means is sooooo much better. OK no...NOT really. They are 250 volts, 9 amp, 40 watt, 450 milliohm mosfets. Can you say worthless garbage?! Geez...these things are so NOT anything slightly worthwhile it's ridiculous! No wonder with 14 mosfets the BMS is good for 80 amps. I'll obviously be pulling every single one of them out of the P- side and replacing them with AOT2500's. What a garbage mosfet!

The 16/20S version is about 2/5th's the size of this BMS. The 20-30S BMS is a good bit thicker since there's mosfets on both sides of the board.

Image

Like the smaller 16/20S BMS, unsolder a few connections and change the setting in the PC app and this BMS supports 30S. I'll need to add a few wires to the balance cable, but that's super easy.

Image
Image

Does anybody know what you call this rubbery heat sink tape stuff? I'd like to order a roll of it if I knew what it was called.

Image

Replacing those .5w shunts with 2 watt shunts will be easy. There's 10 mosfets per side of the board for both P- and C-. 20 mosfets for decent ones is LOTS of current!

Image

Board top and bottom.

Image

Image
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Re: 20-30S 80A smart BMS

Post by themelon » Jul 16 2018 8:52pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 31 1969 7:25pm

Does anybody know what you call this rubbery heat sink tape stuff? I'd like to order a roll of it if I knew what it was called
"Silicone thermal pad" will lead you to it

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Re: 20-30S 80A smart BMS

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 17 2018 12:00am

themelon wrote:
Jul 16 2018 8:52pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 31 1969 7:25pm

Does anybody know what you call this rubbery heat sink tape stuff? I'd like to order a roll of it if I knew what it was called
"Silicone thermal pad" will lead you to it
I found it...thermal gap filler.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-100-1-5mm- ... 2749.l2649
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flippy   10 kW

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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by flippy » Jul 17 2018 12:00am

thermal conductive pad usually gets the good stuff. sillicone is not good for heat transfer.
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7S smart BMS

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 17 2018 12:11am

This is what 46 7S boards looks like...arrived today.

Image
Last edited by ElectricGod on Jul 17 2018 9:41am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bluetooth BMS?

Post by themelon » Jul 17 2018 12:50am

flippy wrote:
Jul 17 2018 12:00am
thermal conductive pad usually gets the good stuff. sillicone is not good for heat transfer.

True, as i use sillicone hot pads to pull stuff from the oven. I don't think any of the stuff I have ever bought that was labeled as such actually had sillicone in it as it has always worked just fine. Not sure why it didn't occur to me when I wrote that as now it seems like a dumb statement.

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Re: 20-30S 80A smart BMS

Post by themelon » Jul 17 2018 2:07am

ElectricGod wrote:
Jul 16 2018 7:59pm
This BMS is just the big brother to the smaller BMS that we have seen so much of in this thread. And when I say big brother, I really mean it! This thing is BIG, but it's also capable of 20-30S and from the factory good for 80 amps. However, everything about it says that 80 amps is just for starters. Replace all those pathetic HY3712 mosfets with much better 150 volt mosfets (AOT2500) and populate all P- 20 positions and there's no reason to believe that 300 - 400 amps is not possible. Otherwise, decent copper busses, lots of places for shunts and lots of places for mosfets. While quite large, this BMS has lots of current handling capability.
Got a link for this one? I could not spot it on the crappy mobile site...

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Re: 20-30S 80A smart BMS

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 17 2018 9:40am

themelon wrote:
Jul 17 2018 2:07am
ElectricGod wrote:
Jul 16 2018 7:59pm
This BMS is just the big brother to the smaller BMS that we have seen so much of in this thread. And when I say big brother, I really mean it! This thing is BIG, but it's also capable of 20-30S and from the factory good for 80 amps. However, everything about it says that 80 amps is just for starters. Replace all those pathetic HY3712 mosfets with much better 150 volt mosfets (AOT2500) and populate all P- 20 positions and there's no reason to believe that 300 - 400 amps is not possible. Otherwise, decent copper busses, lots of places for shunts and lots of places for mosfets. While quite large, this BMS has lots of current handling capability.
Got a link for this one? I could not spot it on the crappy mobile site...
This is the 24S version, but there's no difference except a couple of balance wires and some solder bridges.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 3de21IEi1Y

The page now lists and LCD for it too. It has lots of Chinese on the display...don;t know how useful that is.

if you need LCD display , click this link :

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Smart-In ... 66013.html
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Re: 7S smart BMS

Post by themelon » Jul 17 2018 12:17pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jul 17 2018 12:11am
This is what 46 7S boards looks like...arrived today.
I could use 4 boxes like that...

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