Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:04am

This is not a discussion thread, just add links that have details and/or pics. As more of these EVs are involved in wrecks, their battery packs are coming up for sale at surprisingly affordable prices.

Image

Cell dimensions (all in millimeters):

Tesla-3, cylindrical 21700 (21mm X 70mm)
Tesla-S, cylindrical 18650 (18mm X 65mm)

Chevy Volt______177 X 127 X 6.3
Zero Motorcycle: 230 X 161 X 6.0___(2013 to today, earlier cells are different)
Nissan Leaf_____290 X 216 X 7.1
Chevy Bolt, xxx
Chevy Spark, xxx
Kia Soul, xxx

edit: many of these EVs are rare. Due to the small volume available to mount a battery pack in an ebike frame, high-performance can only come from a high-amp cell. It is looking like the Volt and Zero have the best options for hot rod ebikes, and the Zero is also rare. Use what you can affordably find, but...it's looking like the Chevy Volt is the battery pack we most want to find, for hot rod ebikes.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2011 Nissan Leaf Gen-1 uses flat foil cells from AESC, that are packaged in metal cases. These modules have four cells each in a 2S / 2P configuration. A full Leaf pack has 48 X 2S-modules (96S), so 393V if charged to 4.1V per cell, and a nominal 346V at 3.6V. The metal module case dimensions are 303mm X 223mm, and 35mm thick, each cell is 290mm X 216mm, 7.1mm thick.

http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index. ... Itemid=631

Each metal module "can" can be easily re-configured as 4S / 1P if you like, or 1S/ 4P

Chemistry is cathode: LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2, anode: graphite

http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/product/liion_ev/

Here is a video where the metal case is opened up to access the individual cells (inside is 2S/2P = 4 cells). If you don't want to open the cans (so you can still use the stock connectors), each module is nominal 7.2V, and 60-Ah, each cell is 3.6V / 30-Ah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTxXkBAc60#t=7m3s

Great info from MarkZ
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 62#p773858

Long thread from ES on Leaf cells
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=52162

From Miro13car:
2016 Leaf uses 8-cell modules, 41Ah rated cells
Here's a video of converting a Leaf pack to a 52V / 14S off-grid RV solar-charged pack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV8fyzOTjsk

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From Juan Trujillo

the Volt’s and Leaf’s respective battery packs have nearly identical chemistry, both using a lithium-manganese cathode. They both have the same sensitivity to high temps. Out of all the various lithium cathodic chemistries, lithium-manganese is the most heat sensitive and has the highest and fastest rate of capacity decay and degradation at higher temperatures."

The Leaf’s battery cell is manufactured by NEC, is a pouch type cell with stacked elements, a LiMn2O4 cathode from Nippon Denko, a graphite anode from Hitachi Chemicals, a Celgard PP dry separator, and an EC type LiPF6 electrolyte from Tomiyama.

The Volt’s battery cell is manufactured by LG Chem, is a pouch type cell with stacked elements, a LiMn2O4 cathode from Nikki Catalysis, a hard carbon anode (which is more robust and has better/longer calendar life properties than the graphite anode in the Leaf’s battery cell) from Kureha, a Celgard PP dry/SRS separator, and a PC type LiPF6 electrolyte produced in-house by LG Chem.

The Nissan Leaf 2014 and earlier cells are 3C, 2015 and newer are 10C. The newer cells have been used at 90A without harm.

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Chevy Volt cell info

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:04am

2011 Chevy Volt (thanks MarkZ)

Image

Image

"What kind of battery does the Chevy Volt use and other ???'s"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 46#p467311

wikipedia:
The 2011 Volt's lithium-ion battery (Li-ion) battery pack weighs 435 lb (197 kg) and "consists of 288 individual cells arranged into nine modules. Plastic frames hold pairs of lithium-ion cells that sandwich an aluminum cooling fin. The design and construction of that aluminum plate was critical to ensuring an even temperature distribution with no hot or cool spots across the flat, rectangular cell. The battery pack has its own cooling circuit that is similar to, but independent from, the engine cooling system.

For the 2011/2012 model years, the battery pack stores 16 kWh of energy but it is controlled or buffered via the energy management system to use only 10.3 kWh of this capacity to maximize the life of the pack. For this reason the battery pack never fully charges or depletes, as the software only allows the battery to operate within a state of charge (SOC) window of 65%. The battery capacity was increased to 16.5 kWh for the 2013 model year.

In October 2008 General Motors chose LG Chemical to provide the battery systems for the first production version of the Volt.

Gen-1, 96S / 3P (288 cells), nominal 360V, NMC-LMO Pouch (LiMn2O4/LiNiO2)

"Chevy Volt Pack Info - Salvage 16kwh Packs Under $2k"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=62445
The individual cells are 15AH, which are rated conservatively by GM at 7.8C. They are welded together in 3P 45AH groups, The module dimensions are 11" high and 9.5" wide, and a naked pouch is 0.220-inch thick. (5.6mm)
If understand correctly, Chevy Volt pack has two 24V/45Ah modules and seven 48V/45Ah modules
Since the pack must be able to provide full performance from a small battery (50-mile "electric only" range) because it has a hybrid engine to extend range, the cells are rated for 7C continuous and 10C burst.
BatteryChevyVoltPack1.png
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These modules are often listed on EBAY as 48V, but they are 12S, so I would call them 44V nominal at 3.7V per cell. Fully charged to 4.1V would be 49.2V. This ad has them at 47-Ah, but I have also seen 45-Ah frequently posted. This price is LESS THAN $0.50 per 1000-mAh.

Great for golf cart conversion away from lead-acid, mini-DIY powerwall, or 45-Ah longtail cargobike...

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:05am

Chevy Bolt

Image

60 kWh pack, 96 cell groups, 3 cells per group

Image

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:05am

Tesla roadster, Model-S, and Model-3

There's not much varied info between the models, all use small cylindrical cells configured with thousands of them per vehicle. The Roadster and the Model-S use 18650 format cells from Panasonic, and the Model-3 will use the slightly larger 21700 cell, also from Panasonic. These cells are not high-amp. They are configured for maximum range and long life. Although, it is worthy of note that the 21700 cells in the model-3 can do 15A continuous.

Roadster:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Model-S:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Model-3:

26650 cell on the left, 21700 in the middle, and our favorite common 18650 cell on the right.

Image

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:05am

Zero Motorcycle
(Thanks Doctorbass, MarkZ, and amberwolf)

see Doctorbass post below at:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1308109

The Zero motorcycle has had more than one battery pack supplier over the years.

2009-2011 cylindrical Molicel 2.9-Ah IMR-26700A 26700 (2.5V-3.8V-4.2V) 26.4mm ⌀ ⨉ 70mm

2012 pouch EIG 20-Ah C020 NCM (2.5V-3.65V-4.15V) 130mm ⨉ 217mm ⨉ 7.2mm

2013-2014 Farasis 25-Ah IMP06160230P25A 25Ah (2.0V 3.65V-4.15-4.20V) 161mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm

2015 Farasis 27-Ah (25Ah label) 161mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm

2016-2017 Farasis 29-Ah (28Ah label) 160mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm

Zero S 2013 battery of 4 blocks of 28S / 1P, 25-Ah NMC that I opened and took one of the block and split it to get one pack of 14S and one pack of 8S. Both are mounted vertically in the frame. The 14S is on the bottom of the frame, and the 8S is on the top
25-Ah NMC FARASIS pouch cells, 3.6V nominal, 4.15V max. Each one of the four modules is 28S, 3.6V per cell X 28S = 100.8V, fully charged 4.15V X 28S = 116V

ZF2.8
- (2.5kWh usable)
-28S / 1P
ZF11.4 ( the full pack of the Zero 2013 S and DS) !
-(10.0kWh usable)
-Four modules 28S / 1P in parallel
- 500A contactor
-the 4P cells are capable 500A continuous 700A burst
"Zero Motorcycle: which kind of battery do they use?"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 03#p972119

"Zero Motorcycles BATTERY for your E-projects!!" (Doctorbass)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =9&t=87997

"Carbon Fiber E-Frame built ! by Doc" (Doctorbass, NYX frame, Zero battery)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 64#p994254

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:30pm

Ford Escape:
I can buy all the Ford Escape modules I might ever need for less than $750 each (Southern California)
FWIW Ford Escape: 330V 5.5 ah. NIMH. rated,@1.8 kWh. $0.41 w/h @$750 a pack. 27¢ @500. 100 lbs ish. Tempting............. no lipo balance hassle, run them till they die. Couldn't get a C Rate. SFO transit says they are bomb proof

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:30pm


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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 24 2017 10:30pm

Chevy Spark (see below, will add here soon)

Image

1/2 of a Spark pack shown here below. Shown is three-cells X 16S 55-Ah witch is exactly 1/2 Spark pack

Image

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by Inwo » Jul 24 2017 11:39pm

https://community.electricforum.com/t/c ... leaf/12612


Don't forget Chevy Spark. Although rare, it breaks down into 6 identical 16s modules. As no mechanical reconfiguring is required, all plumbing remains usable.
1/2 pack shown > 9kwh going in a buddies Gem in Ca.
These have each been electrically reconfigured in to 8s 110ah modules.

Pic below shows three Chevy Spark sub-packs on the left, and a stack of ten Leaf modules on the right
379eefd792d6d29ee956787332cd1056c7d4392a_1_666x500.jpg
And series parallel Volt modules.
My favorite, common balance lead connectors make it easy.
s-l400.jpg
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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by Inwo » Jul 24 2017 11:54pm

Chevy Volt info.
2016 and 2017 no longer use 2 6s modules as earlier models.
Now use 12s and 16s modules.
Also balance leads are Pico fused at 630 or 680 MA. Memory fails me.

This means they won't work with Chargery BMS's high power balance current.
Must hardwire new leads or jumper fuses. Ffc used in new models can only carry a couple amps safely. So no charging thru balance leads.

Pre- 2016 can handle 10a charging.

Early LG batteries will fail very quickly when abused. High ambient and charge over 4v.

I know of 5 early leaf packs that failed in only a year of recycled use.
Picture above is one.

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 25 2017 12:09am

Thanks, I will add that to the post above!

When someone is considering buying some cells from a wrecked EV for a cargobike, an E-scooter, an E-motorcycle, or an EV conversion, what they want to know is:

What are the physical dimensions of each cell?

What Chemistry (so I can research a charger)?

If I buy a pack, or a sub-pack module...how many cells will I get? (sellers sometimes don't actually understand what they have).

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by tiny_n_terrible » Jul 25 2017 4:02am

I bought four used leaf cells in 2015.
In 20017 one of the single pack cells went bad. The group of four cells only charged to twelve volts.
I bought a new four cell leaf battery.
This is the place I have bought my leaf batteries from.
http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index. ... Itemid=605

I only charge to less than four volts per cell.
I like icecube57's thread on leaf cells.
I converted mine like this page
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150.
I mounted two 1/8 inch thick alumimium plates on either side of the top bar on a used womans bike.
then two modified leaf batteries on each side with an 1/8 inch outer cover all held in place with allthread and bolts.
The temp here is extremely high 120 plus now.
I do not leave my batteries, or the black bicycle seat in the direct sun.
Lots of speed if I want 60 volt on two 48 volt1000 hubmotors.
Or lots of range using one hubmotor.
I do sometimes draw them down to low volt cutoff. Remember 48 volt controller not 60 volt controller.
I like them they are a bit heavy though.
I use a bulk charger with a timer or a really cheapo balance charger.

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, etc

Post by Manny » Jul 25 2017 6:30am

I bought a Peugeot ion battery pack. (the same battery as in the Mitsubishi iMiEV and the Citroën C-ZERO )

The cells are called LEV50 assembled in to modules.
The pack consists of 10 8S modules and 2 4S modules, called LEV50-8 and LEV50-4.

Here is a datasheet: https://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol ... _1_021.pdf

Nominal capacity 50 Ah
Nominal voltage 3.7 V
(H x W x L) 113.5 × 43.8 × 171mm
Mass 1.7 kg
Specific energy 109 Wh/kg
Energy density 218 Wh/L

Image

Image

They are for my moped convetion project : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=83316

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by miro13car » Jul 26 2017 1:02pm

2016 Leaf uses 8-cell modules, 41Ah rated cells

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by fechter » Jul 26 2017 2:31pm

Kia Soul EV

The Kia Soul EV is an electric vehicle with a 27 kWh (355 V, 76 Ah) lithium-ion battery pack. The pack is built from 192 SK Innovation 38 Ah pouch cells with NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) cell chemistry.

Some references state the battery is a Lithium polymer construction. These cells are apparently good for very high discharge rates.

[The extension bmp has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension bmp has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewto ... =357#p2092
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662

Kia Soul EV uses box-like modules mounted under the seats. All modules use the same cell. Some modules have 14 cells inside, and some modules have 10 cells.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Inwo » Jul 26 2017 3:10pm

Spark 16s tapped to 8s2p
MVC-007F.JPG
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MVC-013F.JPG
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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 26 2017 3:19pm

That's awesome! I had never heard of "SK Innovation", and after a quick look, they are also the battery suppler for the new Mercedes Generation EQ vehicle (very similar to the Kia EV, different body), for those who are searching for one of these packs...

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Pajda » Jul 27 2017 1:13am

Great thread with lots of data in one place. I think that Zero motorcycles are using from MY2017 upgraded Farasis cells with 29Ah, Here are the dimensions: http://www.farasis.com/solutions/cells/

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by litespeed » Jul 27 2017 9:49am

This is a great thread.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index, Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Doctorbass » Jul 27 2017 10:44am

All useful info regarding the ZERO BATTERY

Credit to the Unnofficial ZERO manual page:

http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unoffic ... al#Battery

Cells

The current manufacturer is Farasis who are supplying pouch cells for the 2013+ model range.
NMC Cell ChemistryThe chemistry used is Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt: LiNiMnCoO2 ("NMC" or other rearrangements of those letters).NMC is a relatively new battery chemistry which differs from the Li-cobalt chemistry we are familiar with from mobile phone batteries and laptops. While Li-cobalt has a higher energy density than NMC (storage capacity per kilogram), it doesn't cycle as well and ages quicker.That's fine for a mobile phone that is likely to be obsolete after 2-3 years, but not for an electric bike.The automotive-grade NMC cells that Farasis supply should easily satisfy the requirements of the five year warranty that Zero are providing with their current Z-Force battery packs. It seems they should last 8-10 years if they aren't abused.Even if you start to notice some significant deterioration after five years, the rate at which battery technology is progressing means that you should be able to buy a new battery pack with much better capacity (range) than the original for less money.


Battery Capacity

Normally, the true energy a battery can have is calculated by taking nominal voltage times the Ah capacity of the battery = Wh (divide by 1000 for kWh units).

However for some reasons, based on industry convention, Zero calculates battery energy (the kWh) by taking the maximum voltage the battery has at 100% capacity times the capacity in Ah, instead of nominal voltage.

Maximum voltage is only present at the beginning of discharge when it is full, and then it drops (nonlinearly).

The nominal voltage is like the average voltage the battery over the entire discharge range. The average is the voltage measured at the battery terminal when it has 50% charge state and is disconnected from any load.

For example, the 2013 S has 100Ah and a nominal 102V: the total energy the battery has is 100Ah x 102V = 10200Wh (10.2kWh). But if you use maximum battery voltage you get 100Ah x 116V = 11.6kWh.

This also applies when adding a power tank, confusing customers about the official rating versus what the mobile application reports.

Regardless of this complexity of measurement, Zero's range figures appear reliable in the general context of the test conditions.

Cells

The current manufacturer is Farasis who are supplying pouch cells for the 2013+ model range.
NMC Cell ChemistryThe chemistry used is Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt: LiNiMnCoO2 ("NMC" or other rearrangements of those letters).NMC is a relatively new battery chemistry which differs from the Li-cobalt chemistry we are familiar with from mobile phone batteries and laptops. While Li-cobalt has a higher energy density than NMC (storage capacity per kilogram), it doesn't cycle as well and ages quicker.That's fine for a mobile phone that is likely to be obsolete after 2-3 years, but not for an electric bike.The automotive-grade NMC cells that Farasis supply should easily satisfy the requirements of the five year warranty that Zero are providing with their current Z-Force battery packs. It seems they should last 8-10 years if they aren't abused.Even if you start to notice some significant deterioration after five years, the rate at which battery technology is progressing means that you should be able to buy a new battery pack with much better capacity (range) than the original for less money.
2009-2011 cylindrical Molicel IMR-26700A Molicel 26700 2.9Ah 2.5V 3.8V 4.2V±50mV 26.4mm ⌀ ⨉ 70mm
2012 pouch EIG EIG C020 EIG NCM C020 20Ah 2.5V 3.65V 4.15V 130mm ⨉ 217mm ⨉ 7.2mm
2013-2014 Farasis Farasis 25Ah Farasis IMP06160230P25A 25Ah 25Ah 2.0V 3.65V 4.15-4.20V 161mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm
2015 Farasis 27Ah 27Ah (25Ah label) 161mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm
2016-2017 Farasis 29Ah 29Ah (28Ah label) 160mm ⨉ 230mm ⨉ 6mm
Farasis ClaimsPer Farasis engineers and industry professionals: 25AhA solid cell, and are Farasis's oldest chemistry design.They are a manganese-rich cathode (NMC) 25Ah cell with excellent cycle life, and acceptable C-rate.27AhAn adaptation of the 25Ah cell chemistry with thinner foils and more of them.This means that there is more active materiel (more capacity) but less conductive path to get that capacity in and out.So for the slow discharge S/DS bikes, you get more capacity, but they are lower C rate, and cannot handle being used in the FX platform.29AhFarasis's newest generation of NMC cell, and they are "awesome" (words of Farasis engineer).Higher discharge rate (peak and continuous) than the 25Ah cell.More capacity than the 27Ah cell (especially at higher C rates/cooler temperatures).


Farasis Specs
25Ah 4C (100A) 7C (175A) 400A 1C (25A)
References2014 ZERO BATTERY CHEMISTRY (Z-FORCE® POWER TANK SECRET SAUCE)DoctorBass on Endless Sphere: Zero Motorcycles BATTERY for your E-projects!!
Cell Arrangement
NotationSee Battery Cell Arrangement Notation to understand how Zero's battery cell arrangements are described.

Configuration

Molicel 26700 3.8V 14 7⨉2s banks 48V (min)53V (nominal) ≈ 3.8V × 1458V (listed/max) 2009 S 14s24p Monolith (12 or 24 parallel)
2010-2011 X 14s12p
S 14s24p
EIG C020 20Ah 3.65V 18 66V ≈ 3.65V × 18 2012 X 18s1p 1 module
S 18s2p or 18s3p 2 or 3-brick monolith
Farasis 25Ah 28 116V (max)102V (nominal) ≈ 3.65V × 2884V (min) 2013-2014 X 28s1p 1 or 2 removable modules
S 28s3p or 28s4p 3 or 4-brick monolith
Farasis 25Ah 2015 X 28s1p 1 or 2 removable modules
Farasis 27Ah S 28s3p or 28s4p 3 or 4-brick monolith
Farasis 29Ah 2016 X 28s1p 1 or 2 removable modules
S 28s3p or 28s4p 3 or 4-brick monolith
2017 X 28s2p Long brick (fixed), or 1 or 2 removable modules
S 28s2p or 28s4p Long brick with storage, or 2 long-brick monolith
References2011 Zero S battery rebuild to Tesla cells reveals Molicel construction for the 2009-2011 era.Zero Motorcycles BATTERY for your E-projects!! by DoctorBass
Brick

Zero arranges Farasis cells in 28-cell series in modular form, referred to as "bricks" because they're bathed in an epoxy after assembly. The brick configuration is "28s1p".

Both the Power Tank and Power Pack Module products encapsulate a single brick.

For the S platform 2014+ years, installing the Power Tank changes a "4p" to a "5p" (and presumably "3p" to "4p" but this seems unlikely).
Components and Weight28 cell ⨉ 485 g/cell = 29.9 lbFor 2015, each brick weighs 32 lb, implying 2.1 lbs for epoxy/etc.Dimensions8? x 7.5 x 9.75in (HxWxL)ReferencesDoctorBass' repackaging of a 25Ah brick into two, length-wise reveals some structure.
Monolith

Monolith technical drawing published in 2016

The term "monolith" refers to Zero's standard Z-Force Power Pack sealed battery assembly with specific, fixed dimensions and a single BMS with fixed communication and power interface.

A monolith is designed to package up to 4 parallel bricks, described as "4-brick" or "28s4p", referring to 4 parallel stacks of 28 cells in series.
The 4p arrangement is a "full" arrangement: the monolith is split into 4 equal quadrants each fitting a brick.A "3-brick" arrangement was available for 2013-2016 S and DS bikes, leaving the forward upper quadrant empty (presumably filled with lightweight but load-absorbing material).InterconnectsAn interconnect wiring system electrically connects each cell across bricks that is in the same position in the series. Interconnects minimize the complexity of cell balancing by ensuring that only 28 conductive connections are needed from the single BMS to keep cells balanced.
Interconnects also ensure that a set of 3 or 4 cells are electrically able to balance a certain amount of load, reducing stress from imbalanced load variations while running.
Interconnects do seem to embody some specialized emergency fuse safeguards.Components and Weight32 lb/brick ⨉ 4 brick = 128 lbThe 4-brick monolith weight of 140 lb implies 12 lb for the base plate, BMS, dog house with contactor, current sensor, fuse, and connectors.
Long Brick

The 2017 model year shifted Zero's battery assembly to a "half monolith" or "long brick" configuration containing the same number of cells as for 2 bricks. A single BMS manages the cells in both stacks.
Model Changes The 2017 S and DS models offer a 2p arrangement using a single long brick arranged along the forward half of the monolith frame area, and leaves the rear half of that area empty for a storage bin accessed from the side of the frame. The prior 3p configuration is no longer for sale.
The 2017 X platform bikes are delivered by default with a non-removable long brick. They are available optionally with single removable bricks like prior model years for an additional cost of about $500.
DesignThe long brick arrangement figures suggest that each brick aligns its cells with the other brick. Layout appears to be more efficient as a result.
Interconnects between the bricks seem to be trivial and nearly-zero-resistance, improving cell life.
There is unsupported speculation that 56s1p arrangement is a possible future evolutionary step as a result.
Long brick MonolithsFor 2017 packs, made with "long bricks", the interconnects are extremely simple, only connecting two stacks which are aligned directly against each other.2017 monoliths consist of two "long bricks" with simpler interconnects.
State of Charge
Theory
State of Charge is a calculation meant to help estimate remaining energy in the battery. It is an abstract / simulated measure, not one that can be directly proven with enough physical inputs: the actual proof of state of charge is to fully discharge the battery, running an integral of current as discharged. But a "full" discharge is determined by software, too, measuring minimum cell voltage, which sometimes (and possibly for certain cell generations) can have a single cell fall in voltage early causing SoC to drop early. And this voltage can be a dynamic result of discharge, so that restarting the bike after a few minutes' rest period can show a higher SoC than before.

Batteries are chemical systems that can be very complicated to summarize; one of the main factors that determines how much energy a battery will be able to release is its current temperature, which is determined by both outside temperature and any heat produced internally from resistance during charging and discharging.

Zero's algorithm looks at the current pack voltage (seemingly the most accurate sensor) to estimate charge state but also measures current in a less precise way to measure charge/discharge rates. And it also measures battery temperature which may correct for some factors.
Example
For the Farasis 25Ah cells (using the datasheet available), noting a 28 cell series, the 116V reported by the mobile application at 100% SoC corresponds to 4.14V (=116V/28). 0% state of charge at least naively then would correspond to 92.4V ( = 3.3V × 28).

The nominal cell voltage listed (3.65V) then corresponds to a nominal pack voltage of 102.2V, which does reflect the relatively stable battery voltage reading near the middle of the state of charge cycle in steady state.

In any case, the state of charge calculation is driven by attempting to bracket vehicle usage to stay in this range - the desired voltage range (to maintain battery chemistry over the stated lifetime) drives stated limits, coupled with an estimation of the amp-hours remaining from any given point in the collective state of the battery pack.
Alternate Framing (per Terry)Zero will let you discharge to about 88 volts and up to 116.4 volts.By the Farasis data sheet, this is using the full capacity of the cells with the exception of about 4 volts from the whole pack.84 volts would be 3.0V per cell but 88 volts is pretty close.88 volts is about 3.14V per cell and there is less than 1% energy left at 3.14V.SoC Indications per protomech The phone app appears to simply show kWh using Zero's max capacity rating, i.e. present voltage times present amp hours.
The voltage and amp-hours are likely to be correct, but the kWh readout is a rough guide at best.

Battery Storage and Capacity with Age

Chemically, the cells mainly age in two ways:
1. The electrolyte reacting with the active components of the cathode and anode in the cells, and releasing gas (calendar life).
2. The interaction between the lithium ions and the anode/cathode blend that causes a small amount of damage each time they are cycled. (Cycle life)

You just have to come to terms with the fact that from the moment the battery pack is manufactured it will very slowly lose overall capacity regardless of whether you use it or not. Li-ion batteries are good at holding their charge so you don't need to worry about letting them stand for a long time, providing they've got a reasonably good state of charge (SoC). At 40-50% SoC the overall capacity loss due to aging is minimized. At full charge the aging effects are increased but not by such a great amount that it should cause any great concern. For some owners it might be wiser to follow Zero's recommendations and just leave the bike plugged in for however long you plan to store the bike. This at least makes sure the individual cells stay balanced with each other and there's little risk of them dropping to a very low SoC at which point the aging effects begin to increase. If you let the SoC drop below their minimum threshold you run the risk of the battery pack becoming unusable. I think that's why Zero recommend leaving the bike plugged in over winter. If there's some sort of power cut mid-winter and the bike isn't checked for a few months, then at least there's a good chance the battery won't have discharged too much.

Farasis recommendations:


The manufacturer might state that you will get 500 cycles from a battery and they will be referring to full cycles. However, if you only ever use 10% of the capacity from a full charge and then top it up, you will get more cycles from it before the battery health drops to 80%. In this example you are likely to get 1500 cycles from a battery that you only ever discharge to half it's capacity. That's assuming that all other variables remain the same. In day-to-day use, variations in state of charge and temperature are more likely to affect battery life than how you cycle the battery. Taking Zero's claim's of an estimated battery pack life of 496,000 km using city ranges it would take at least 2,250 full cycles to achieve this (2014 Zero S 11.4 kWh). Taking into account the loss of capacity in this period and the figure is bound to be more like 2,500 cycles. Most trips and daily commutes will probably drop the battery to 40-50% SoC thus increasing the number of cycles we would get from the battery. Let's say we average 60 miles between charges of a 100 mile combined range over the life of the bike. Then let's allow ourselves 3,000 cycles before the battery drops to 80% health. That's still 180,000 miles. Even if we then halve that to allow for temperature and aging (very unlikely even in harsh conditions) we get a very, very conservative estimate of 90,000 miles. That should give even a heavy commuter a good five or six years of use before noticing significant reduction in range. Even then, a daily average of 60 miles would still give you a 20 mile reserve.

If you do decide to leave it at 40-50% SoC you also need to be organized enough to check the bike every couple of weeks or so. It wouldn't hurt to charge it up after a few months, leave it plugged in for a few days to make sure the cells get properly balanced, then take it for a ride to bring the SoC down to the 40-50% level again before leaving it for the next few weeks or months.

I have no doubt that the good people at Zero have done their sums, know the specifications of the batteries in detail and are confident that their battery packs will have at least 80% health after five years even if the bike is never ridden and left plugged in all the time. Zero also state in their specifications that their battery packs are good for hundreds of thousands of miles before they reach 80% of their original stated capacity. That in itself should be enough to put your mind at rest, but if it isn't then perhaps these golden rules should help:
1. Don't leave the bike standing empty for more than a few days.
2. If you have to store the bike for a long time, then either leave it plugged in and don't worry about it, or leave it at 40-50% SoC but keep an eye on it.
3. Just use your bike as much as you can and don't worry about the battery. The engineers have thought all this through and are backing it up with a five year warranty. The whole scene will be different in five years time, so it isn't worth thinking about.

More pictures to come.

I attached one showing the Monolith where we see two of the 4 bricks that are stack one on the top and one on the bottom. The cells connections fo each 28s1p are shared in parallel thru a flexible flat ribbon cable ( shown in brown) it contain the multiple cell thermistor connections and the BMS cell level connections. There is ONE BMS for the 4 bricks( 28s1p each) or for the two long bricks ( 28s2p each)

Image

These are subject to extensive test including intense shower!! to make sure these are perfectly water tight:
Image

Image

Image


Doc
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CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
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spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11204
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Ford C-Max cells

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 30 2018 8:37am

I will look up more info soon, just stumbled across these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222762652189?ul_noapp=true

C-Max looks like an Focus body with gas / electric hybrid drivetrain. Also, same drivetrain in Fusion Energi

One cell =
120mm__4 3/4 inch long.
13mm___1/2 inch wide.
85mm___3 3/8 inch tall.
106mm__4 3/16 inch tall with terminals.
Terminal stud thread size: M5-0.8
9oz ea
Tested at 5.5Ah from 4.2V to 2.75V.

Full pack (2015) =
310V, 26-Ah (76S / 5P)
100A continuous discharge.
150A peak discharge.
Cathode /Anode Material: LiMn2O4/Hard Carbon 

2013: 76 cells, 76S / 1P, 5.5-Ah, Panasonic

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 72058.html

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Inwo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 603
Joined: Dec 13 2016 12:01pm
Location: SE MN. USA

Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Inwo » Apr 04 2018 5:27pm

2017 lg 60kwh module pictures.

400 mile range in my Gem EL. :D Only need to charge every 2 years.
10 pcs 10s 160ah and 2 pcs 8s 160ah
$20k+ :cry:
MVC-010F.JPG
MVC-010F.JPG (81.05 KiB) Viewed 10698 times
MVC-011F.JPG
MVC-011F.JPG (89.5 KiB) Viewed 10698 times
MVC-012F.JPG
MVC-012F.JPG (99.84 KiB) Viewed 10698 times

themelon   1 W

1 W
Posts: 57
Joined: Sep 14 2017 4:12pm

Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by themelon » Apr 04 2018 5:55pm

Inwo wrote:
Apr 04 2018 5:27pm
2017 lg 60kwh module pictures.

400 mile range in my Gem EL. :D Only need to charge every 2 years.
10 pcs 10s 160ah and 2 pcs 8s 160ah
$20k+ :cry:
Someone snagged a Bolt battery....

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Inwo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 603
Joined: Dec 13 2016 12:01pm
Location: SE MN. USA

Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Inwo » Apr 04 2018 6:02pm

Anyone else?
I need one more 8s for someone.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Posts: 10125
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by Hillhater » Apr 04 2018 7:14pm

Mitsubishi Outlander, 300v, 12 kWh Li pack dissasembly.
80s, 1p of GS Yuasa LEV 50N 40Ahr cells
https://youtu.be/Gf9fDbwF1K0
There are several versions of this cell ,.
Its available as a 40ah, 50ah, and 75ah cell size
After 2012, the improved GS-YUASA, LEV50N , having a different electrolite..
http://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol9 ... 01_026.pdf
https://pushevs.com/2015/11/04/gs-yuasa ... vs-lev50n/
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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