MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

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MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by Overclocker » Jan 10, 2018 10:20 pm

Image

Image

ELG-240-54A
vs
HLG-240H-54A

for charging 13s packs 13*4.2 = 54.6

they seem to have the same specs but ELG has the adj pots at the back. HLG has them in front. and their metal cases are different

ELG is cheaper

any other differences i've missed?

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by yewsuck » Jan 11, 2018 1:06 am

The ELG has a reduction in output power when on 120vac input. 240->180. The HLG does not say that.

-YS

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by Sunder » Jan 11, 2018 2:26 am

"Derating may be required under low input voltages".

I wouldnt count on the HLG holding up equally on 110v, especially since it also says:

"All parameters [...] measured at 230vac"
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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by amberwolf » Jan 11, 2018 2:46 am

Well, I have the HLG-600-54A here, and use one on the trike to charge to nearly 58V, starting off at 12A when the pack is low enough (around 54V, IIRC) running off 115VAC. So around 600-650W, which is what it's basically rated for. I've run thepack down to near empty a few times, and the HLG sustains that current fine until the pack is charged enough to slow current input down.

So I guess that means the HLG's *should* work at their rated wattage with either 115VAC or 230VAC input (I haven't actually tested mine on anything but 115VAC, but I could make an adapter cord to run off the welder plug to do so, I suppose).

I don't have any ELGs to compare with.


But I do have a Sorenson lab PSU that runs on 230v 2 or 3 phase, and when it's on only 2 phase it is limited in power output vs 3 phase...I suppose that's a similar design choice/issue as whatever the ELG design is that limits it's output at lower input voltages vs higher.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by Sunder » Jan 11, 2018 3:12 am

Yeah. Reading a bit more, it seems even the ELGs hold up under full load on 110v, no derating required.

Someone on another forum pointed out that ELGs have a 5 year warranty vs the HLG's 7 year. Also mentioned that each HLG was QA'ed manually, where as ELGs were machine tested. That one I found a bit odd. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by flippy » Jan 11, 2018 8:12 am

ELG uses a bit cheaper components and less pfc stuff on the input side. Also uses a cheaper case.
Becayse they use slighty different components there is also a different (smaller) voltage range. It is small but it can be a big issue if you are on the edge.

So far of all the mean wells i use(d) only one ELG died on me.
Once i tool a HLG apart and after a LOT of digging i did find a couple of witness marks of manual QC so the above mentioned migt be true. I still have the dead ELG so i might judt want to take it apart as well and see if there are any manual QC marks or test pads.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by fechter » Jan 11, 2018 10:38 am

The HLG is IP67 rated, which means you can use it in the rain (water resistant). Not sure about the ELG. Otherwise, the specs look the same and both look like they should work fine.
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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by Pajda » Jan 11, 2018 2:37 pm

From my point of view the only difference between power supply (PS) and CC-CV charger is that charger should have reverse current protection. I think that both of this PS do not have this protection. The problem with PS without reverse current portection (or OR-ing protection) is that you cannot left it connected to the battery when the PS is turned off. There will be small, but significant current flow (couple of mA) from the battery to the PS which can realtively quickly discharge and so damage the battery.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by motomech » Jan 11, 2018 5:17 pm

I crossed the leads on one of my HLG's when I first got it, no damage.
There is no reason for the PS to be off when still connected. At top charge it just sits there w/ a soft switching sound, drawing very little Current. I unplug it after the battery is disconnected.
I have been using these for a couple of years now and they are rock solid.
One thing folks considering these should realize is,unlike a balance charger, these don't cycle on/off to read the cells, so the charging time will be faster than a balance charger of the same rating.
Motomech

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by amberwolf » Jan 12, 2018 1:44 am

FWIW, I checked my HLG (with AC disconnected from the HLG) on the trike for reverse leakage, before leaving it on the trike (because unless I use the pack disconnect key or flip the main breaker, its' always connected to the battery, via SB50 andersons and a fuse, on the controller side of the CA shunt so I can monitor charging as well as discharging).

There's no detectable current flow to the HLG. If I unplug the HLG from the system, this is the "standby" current the controllers draw; when I plug the HLG into the system the standby current does not change. (I can't unplug the controllers; they're directly wired to the CA shunt)

I don't know if the HLG has a diode on it's output to prevent reverse current flow, but the one I have on the trike has something in it's design that prevents it.

It's possible there's some leakage current in the micro-amp range, below the ability of the CA to detect, but nothing in the milliamp range. I haven't tried the test with my Fluke 77-IIIA because it's current section's fuse is blown, and they cost way too much to buy a replacement fuse.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by yewsuck » Jan 12, 2018 2:19 am

Amberwolf,
Really!?! a Fuse!?! Haha :lol: Just build one! You know you need something to research and test. You are probably just like all the rest of us on these forums. We gotta tinker. :D Looking at your post count and past projects ... You are past tinkering. You are a full blown mad scientist. Haha :twisted:

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You know you want to. Everybody is doing it. You can not get addicted the first shock. You don't want to be the only one not doing it.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by amberwolf » Jan 12, 2018 2:44 am

EDIT: just realized rereading that you meant the fuse in the Fluke meter. :oops:

I did actually make one using wire out of another fuse, but I must've done it wrong, because it didnt' work when I tried it. If I just wrap foil around the dead fuse and put it in, it works, so it's not the meter, just my contruction skills at fault. But I'm not leaving the foil on there, because this is a good meter and I would rather not destroy it--the fuse blew when it was accidentally connected wrong for the setting the dial was at, and I do dumb things like that sometimes...so can't risk losing the meter from it. :oops:



The below is about the fuse between charger and battery:

The fuse is there in case the charger has an internal meltdown in such a way that the battery would flow high enough current into it to cause a fire in it (or in it's output wiring), but not high enough current to blow the battery's fuse or breaker (which to run the controller peaks are necessarily much higher than what it might take to do bad things in a failed piece of electronics).

It's also there in case something goes wrong in the charger, wiring or battery itself that causes the charger to output more than 30A, because that's significantly higher than the 20A battery is rated to charge at, and if the charger is outputting that much current, something is wrong with it (it's max should be 11A but this one is maxed at 12A).

I ddin't fuse it for, say, 15A because I might parallel another charger with this one, which would let me charge at the full 20A (or a bit higher) the pack can take, if I need to go on a trip longer htan my range allows but without enough time to charge at only 12A, and also without the need (or space) to put the second battery in. A second charger would be weatherproof even on the outside of the trike, and a second battery isn't and has to go in the cargo/seatbox. (and a second battery requires heavy gauge wiring added while a second charger does not). Also, the second battery weighs several times what the second charger does. ;)



And yes, I am a mad scientist, most definitely. :) Unfortunatley I lost most of my lair's 50s/60s-era lab equipment (like giant old oscilloscopes) in the fire a few years ago, so it doesn't have that forbidden-planet/outer-limits vibe now. Still have the punched-tape-input cabinet computer, though.


As for building things...I couldn't design and build a charger that's anywhere near as good as even something like the HLGs, and these were donated to me, so I use them. :) But I *am* building (slowly, as I get or find the parts) a couple of Lebowski controllers to run the trike's rear wheels from. I still have to buy the powerstage units and current sensors; thsoe I'm not going to find used in something I can salvage. :/

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by Pajda » Jan 12, 2018 3:27 am

Thank you for your experiences I will add HLG and ELG to my series of charging usable PSU. I have bad experience with Meanwell RSP-1000-12 DC-DC converter I wanted to use it as onboard charger for charging 12V battery from 100V traction battery in BEV. But I found that there is ca 3mA current flow from 12V battery to the RSP when it is off, so I must add a relay between 12V battery and RSP. I found this behaviour also on anther industrial Meanwell PSU.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by yewsuck » Jan 12, 2018 5:37 am

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 12, 2018 2:44 am
EDIT: just realized rereading that you meant the fuse in the Fluke meter. :oops:

I did actually make one using wire out of another fuse, but I must've done it wrong, because it didnt' work when I tried it. If I just wrap foil around the dead fuse and put it in, it works, so it's not the meter, just my contruction skills at fault. But I'm not leaving the foil on there, because this is a good meter and I would rather not destroy it--the fuse blew when it was accidentally connected wrong for the setting the dial was at, and I do dumb things like that sometimes...so can't risk losing the meter from it. :oops:


...........



And yes, I am a mad scientist, most definitely. :) Unfortunatley I lost most of my lair's 50s/60s-era lab equipment (like giant old oscilloscopes) in the fire a few years ago, so it doesn't have that forbidden-planet/outer-limits vibe now. Still have the punched-tape-input cabinet computer, though.


As for building things...I couldn't design and build a charger that's anywhere near as good as even something like the HLGs, and these were donated to me, so I use them. :) But I *am* building (slowly, as I get or find the parts) a couple of Lebowski controllers to run the trike's rear wheels from. I still have to buy the powerstage units and current sensors; thsoe I'm not going to find used in something I can salvage. :/

Yeah, I was talking about the meter fuse. Haha I could not resist. (bad pun not intended) wow! I wish I could have seen that lab. The older stuff just has a character to it.

Thread HighJack over...

Anyway you could test the HGL's output for a relay or diode to settle the questions once and for all? BTW, what is the idle current for this unit on the AC side?

-YS

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by fechter » Jan 12, 2018 11:00 am

For years I've used various Meanwell supplies for charging. On something like a S-400, there is a small LED that indicates power output. If the supply was connected to the pack but unplugged from AC, this LED would drain about 4mA. On a 10Ahr pack, this would take something like 100 days to completely discharge.

I really like having the adjustable voltage and current. On mine, I replaced the board mounted trimmer pot with a full sized pot with a knob for easy adjustment.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by amberwolf » Jan 12, 2018 1:57 pm

fechter wrote:
Jan 12, 2018 11:00 am
On something like a S-400, there is a small LED that indicates power output. If the supply was connected to the pack but unplugged from AC, this LED would drain about 4mA.
There's a blue LED on my HLG, and I had thought it turns off when AC is unplugged, even though the battery is still connected to it, but it stays on.

So this means there *is* still current being drawn from the pack, but it must be really small, since it doesn't show up on the CA. (which does show the few mA controller drain).



yewsuck wrote:
Jan 12, 2018 5:37 am

Anyway you could test the HGL's output for a relay or diode to settle the questions once and for all? BTW, what is the idle current for this unit on the AC side?
I can't test the HLG for what components are in it without opening it up and depotting it, which I might do if it ever dies, but not until then. ;)

Someone above said they did take an HLG apart, so they might chime in here on what they found.

If I get the chance before I forget, I'll use one of my harborfreight meters (whcih aren't fused :roll:) to check the AC-side current. They're not very accurate, but it'll give a basic idea.

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Re: MeanWell HLG vs ELG as charger

Post by yewsuck » Jan 12, 2018 9:36 pm

Fechter, Thank you for the info.

Amberwolf, I forgot about the potting. Thanks for you efforts.

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