Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

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thunderstorm80   1 kW

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Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by thunderstorm80 » May 18 2018 8:13am

Hi,
After being very happy with my 26650 A123 cells (lost only 20% in 7 years and still goes under heavy usage) and my A123 20Ah prismatic cell's performance, I am about to buy some more cells for my future builds.
My current A123 20Ah cells are C grade cells - with 18Ah capacity and short tabs. I've had few of them that puffed, but this is to be expected I guess from grade C cells and assuming that I didn't put them in the fully enclosed metal enclosure A123 recommends. (They are being pressurized with metal zip-ties, gopher tape, tension belts, etc...)

The ones which Osnpower sell me are being claimed as authentic A123's, have full long tabs, Grade A cells, and true 20Ah capacity, and they ask only 22$ per cell.
This seems too good to be true, since Startronics which are USA based ask 38$ for each and these are also supposed to be authentic A123's.

I am also buying 8 A123 6S 26650 packs (19.8V 2.5Ah) for 42$ each which is also a very good price and a very good economic purchase if my 7 year old cells are still retaining 80% of their original capacity.

They only accept Western-Union payments which on one hand makes me feel suspicious as transferring this money this way doesn't have the security Paypal/ebay/Aliexpress can give you in case it's a fraud/scam.

I am planning to spend around 2000$ worth of purchase from them.
I saw they have good reviews here on ES, but still - 22$ per authentic 20Ah cell seems a bit too good to be true.
What do you think?
Shall I go for it?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by 999zip999 » May 18 2018 3:55pm

Arkmundi an E.S. Member has brought from osn. They use to take paypal. Have seen some Shady short tab A123 20ah packs from them. But got A123 20ah from the very shady victpower and still have them 5yrs and 1,180 cycles. China does as china does. Request paypal or some protection.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by 999zip999 » May 18 2018 6:03pm

Lots of junk A123 cells out there spot weld tabs on short tabs a bunch of no-nos. Good pictures of the cells they're going to send you not a picture of a cell but the exact cells

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by Sunder » May 18 2018 7:17pm

I've bought from them. first round for a grand using Paypal. Second round using direct wire. Still waiting for the second round cells to arrive, but they are not due for another 2 weeks.

Always some degree of risk buying online, and even higher overseas, but OSN seems legit enough.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

thunderstorm80   1 kW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by thunderstorm80 » May 20 2018 10:58am

Hey.
Following your recommendations I have asked for pictures.
They said they can't send pictures of the 26650 pack because they build it for me once I make an order. (they have the individual cells).
For the 20Ah I got this picture:
IMG_1770.jpg
It looks legit, but then I noticed that this is a picture from 2014. (According to the file stamp)
They say they can accept paypal only up to 200$, so I could technically split the order into 10 smaller ones, but the shipping cost and the very long waiting time to complete all of them would make everything much more expensive in the end.

What do you think?

I now have the dilema of maybe dropping my addiction to A123's products and not ordering anything from OSNPOWER, and instead moving on to "standard" modern Li-Ions, inspite of their huge economical disadvantage on the long run. (They lose their capacity while A123's are hard to kill)
I already bought few LiGo's from Grin and they could replace my smaller 26650 A123 packs, but I would need a much bigger number of LiGo's to accomplish the same C discharge/charge rates I demand from the A123's. And even so, the LiGo's will not last for 7 years. That's for sure!
For the bigger 20Ah, I consider Grin's Hailong packs. Their advantage is being mechanical friendly - no need to press pouch cells and create all sort of mechanical constructions on the bike. Their initial Wh/Kg is 190Wh/Kg, although if I aim to increase the life of the cells (and still they wouldn't last for 7 years+) is to use only 80% of their capacity which drops them to 150Wh/Kg. Not very far from the A123 prismatic cells. (133Wh/Kg for bare cells, around 110Wh/Kg with the mechanical support). And of course this initial 150Wh/Kg will steady go down within the first years.

Joachim   100 W

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by Joachim » May 20 2018 1:16pm

They build it for you once you make an order :roll: 90 cells A123 special build for you :pancake:

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by Sunder » May 20 2018 6:41pm

Joachim wrote:
May 20 2018 1:16pm
They build it for you once you make an order :roll: 90 cells A123 special build for you :pancake:
They were building the 26650 pack, not the A123 cells.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by 999zip999 » May 20 2018 8:28pm

You don't want a picture of a 123 20 ampere-hours cells you want a picture of the cells they're going to sell you. You can get a picture of A123 20ah cells on there website.

thunderstorm80   1 kW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by thunderstorm80 » May 21 2018 11:25am

I got another response from OSN, after requesting a modern picture.
This is what I got:
A123 20AH.jpg
26650.png
26650.png (160.91 KiB) Viewed 432 times
The 20Ah seems legit pic, but what about the product?
Why does it says A1 on the pouch's body? (seems like partly printed "A123")
Does anyone can vouch for those cells?

The second picture is just an internet picture, but I also didn't hear of shady 26650 A123 cells.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by miro13car » May 21 2018 12:18pm

first 2 pictures are of genuine A123 pouches, I bought over 20 from Storetronics, autorized A123 dealer.
first two pictures show pouches made in in 2011, seven years in storage !!
second picture show strange A123 pouches ...
A1 in centre is a grade.
why they charge only 22 dollars?
compare this with Storetronics of 55 dollars.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by 999zip999 » May 21 2018 12:48pm

Well osn has sold A123 20ah pouches with welded on tabs and it was for 22usd.

thunderstorm80   1 kW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by thunderstorm80 » May 21 2018 2:42pm

Well, now I am even more confused.
Are you telling me that on the latest pics I've uploaded, where they show what they have in stock now (with the A1) - are authentic but 7 year old cells?
And why do they have to weld the tabs? What is the other (and better) option for assembling the tabs?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by 999zip999 » May 21 2018 3:52pm

They have sold welded tabs for 22usd do not buy these cells so ask them osn to guarantee it. Yes a lot of old stock out there. They do have a Chinese Factory but I don't know what access we have to that factory. Osn buys pallets and sells.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by miro13car » May 21 2018 10:20pm

again
first picture shows 2011 cells,

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   100 W

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » May 22 2018 4:07am

Why don't you just buy a couple of cells, ask them to send via express and check for yourself?
Sure it is an added cost, but I think it's quite nothing compared to 2000 USD.

Based on the info they provided you it seems legit. For some reason I don't know, those batteries seems to be easy to find here in China and they are indeed quite affordable. On the chinese market you can find a cell for less than 10 bucks:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2 ... t=6#detail

I'd say go for it, but never use western union.

thunderstorm80   1 kW

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Re: Before paying 2000$ to Osnpower - Can I ask your opinion?

Post by thunderstorm80 » May 23 2018 2:33am

Dui, ni shuo de dui wrote:
May 22 2018 4:07am
Why don't you just buy a couple of cells, ask them to send via express and check for yourself?
Sure it is an added cost, but I think it's quite nothing compared to 2000 USD.

Based on the info they provided you it seems legit. For some reason I don't know, those batteries seems to be easy to find here in China and they are indeed quite affordable. On the chinese market you can find a cell for less than 10 bucks:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2 ... t=6#detail

I'd say go for it, but never use western union.
Buying just few cells makes the shipping cost 1.5 times the product cost. This is totally not effective..
And based on what I've red here and online, I have decided to drop my belief in A123's excellent chemistry, and instead of getting recycled batteries (the original A123's are quite pricey) I will just move on to a modern Li-Ion chemistry.

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