How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12911
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by neptronix » Oct 14 2018 4:13pm

Edit: removed the suspicion that UPP could have been the original supplier from this post.

I'm working on a bike from a customer who has had his second BBS02 part fail on him and he wanted me to look over the whole build.

Here's part of the carnage. It's a hailong style battery pack sold by Lunacycle in 2016. AKA 'shark pack'.
IMG_20181014_143957.jpg
IMG_20181014_143727.jpg
Okay, we've got multiple design issues here..

1) the only thing protecting the battery cells on the top and bottom from the hard plastic case is a layer of kapton tape.

2) The battery cell assembly can shift side to side ~5mm and bash up against the plastic screw area seen in picture 1. Eventually this could damage on the nickel tabs and make the tabs separate from the cell, potentially puncturing the cell in the process ( depending on how it was welded )

3) If you install this battery pack vertically or diagonally on your bike, the whole 6-8lb. cell assembly rests on a single piece of duct tape. As you can see in picture 2, this is less than adequate. I imagine this could eventually deform that cell and short it.

Lunacycle and a bunch of various alibaba vendors, American vendors, etc sold these for a long time. I really wonder how many battery fires are due to shitty designs like this.

If you have one of these, i'd put it in a frame bag since the mounting points are known to be janky as well. And add high heat rated insulation on the weak points.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

EbikeAus   100 W

100 W
Posts: 240
Joined: Feb 04 2018 5:58am

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by EbikeAus » Oct 14 2018 8:12pm

Bit of a worry!
This is why I use cell holders..and cell level fuses
Choose LiFe 8)

May all your batteries be fully charged and perfectly balanced :P

Punx0r   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4861
Joined: May 03 2012 8:16am
Location: England

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by Punx0r » Oct 15 2018 8:35am

Protecting anything delicate from vibration or impacts means holding it firmly but gently. I.e. stiff but compliant foam to wedge it into a case so it can't rattle around.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13048
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by fechter » Oct 15 2018 9:07am

One of the reasons they started making potted packs.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Nov 30 2018 3:56am

Hi,I am a salesperson from UPP.
Our hailong battery inside is not like that.

How to post a picture?
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

Tommm   100 W

100 W
Posts: 222
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by Tommm » Nov 30 2018 8:08am

sophia.unitpackpower wrote:
Nov 30 2018 3:56am
Hi,I am a salesperson from UPP.
Our hailong battery inside is not like that.

How to post a picture?
Look below submit button when making a post, click attachments and then add file.
Attachments
host.png

Philaphlous   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 316
Joined: Mar 28 2017 7:17am

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by Philaphlous » Nov 30 2018 9:13am

Dang that battery is dirty... Im gonna switch to cell holders/spacers soon with a new battery...

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12911
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by neptronix » Nov 30 2018 10:03am

sophia.unitpackpower wrote:
Nov 30 2018 3:56am
Hi,I am a salesperson from UPP.
Our hailong battery inside is not like that.
This is an older battery. I understand that the design has changed.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 02 2018 10:15pm

after welding.jpg
after welding.jpg (201.12 KiB) Viewed 659 times
After wiring 1.jpg
After wiring 2.jpg
Thanks tom.
I am new here.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 02 2018 10:16pm

QQ图片20181127101505.jpg
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 02 2018 10:17pm

Sorry the photo is a little too big
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 02 2018 10:42pm

neptronix wrote:
Nov 30 2018 10:03am
sophia.unitpackpower wrote:
Nov 30 2018 3:56am
Hi,I am a salesperson from UPP.
Our hailong battery inside is not like that.
This is an older battery. I understand that the design has changed.
As I know, our company does not have cooperation with lunacycle.
I believe lunacyle is a great supplier trusted by many consumers.
Many manufactures use cell holder on hailong battery, but if the capacity go up to like 52V 17.5ah, they can not use cell holder, because limited space.
Before in my company, we also have many after sale problems on 52V 17.5ah hailong.

Fortunately, from December, we update a new hailong case, we can use cell holder on 52V 17.5ah.
I believe Lunacycle will also find a way to solve this problem.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
tomjasz   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3893
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by tomjasz » Dec 03 2018 2:19pm

Provide after sale service locally? Where? I know of a UPP customer battery in Germany for repair. Two new batteries failed and were sent for repair. I saw photos on facebook of a repair done in Germany and it was very bad. One year warranty is useless if the warranty is never honored. I have watched a well known seller eat every bad battery. He paid for new battery, with little support beyond a few BMS to stock, to be sent to customer to honor warranty. UPP has done nothing. Now no answers to email. Many of us were happy for several years, but SOMETHING has changed.

Asking customer to repair battery is a bad policy, but UPP is insulated. You will not be liable for damage or accidents. Some small momo and pop shop will eat it.

Based on my limited experience, i've been in a dozen UPP batteries, the pictured build is unlike any. I got from upp. Still there are many reports of inadequate nickel, and actually are nickel COATED steel. NOT PURE NICKEL.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8421
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 03 2018 3:32pm

Tomjasz got any picks ?

User avatar
tomjasz   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3893
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by tomjasz » Dec 03 2018 3:57pm

999zip999 wrote:
Dec 03 2018 3:32pm
Tomjasz got any picks ?
Full circle here, back to Mr. Reliability, EM3ev. Paul's packs have a much lower failure rate. Having Bluetooth to gauge battery should be a very helpful troubleshooting tool.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 03 2018 9:40pm

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 03 2018 2:19pm
Provide after sale service locally? Where? I know of a UPP customer battery in Germany for repair. Two new batteries failed and were sent for repair. I saw photos on facebook of a repair done in Germany and it was very bad. One year warranty is useless if the warranty is never honored. I have watched a well known seller eat every bad battery. He paid for new battery, with little support beyond a few BMS to stock, to be sent to customer to honor warranty. UPP has done nothing. Now no answers to email. Many of us were happy for several years, but SOMETHING has changed.

Asking customer to repair battery is a bad policy, but UPP is insulated. You will not be liable for damage or accidents. Some small momo and pop shop will eat it.

Based on my limited experience, i've been in a dozen UPP batteries, the pictured build is unlike any. I got from upp. Still there are many reports of inadequate nickel, and actually are nickel COATED steel. NOT PURE NICKEL.
Hi, tomjasz,
I took those pictures in our factory, it is hailong type, maybe what you got are not hailong?

We have Germany and USA after sale center,sometimes if customer agree, we will ask customer to do some brief test to help us find where the problem is.
Yes, we might not be good enough, but we are always trying to be better. There is no problem that cannot be resolved through negotiation.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8421
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 04 2018 2:32pm

Sophia hang in there E.S. can be a rough place . Tech talk is always weclome. Just don't cross the bridge into sales in this section.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12911
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by neptronix » Dec 04 2018 2:58pm

I have edited UPP out of the name and first post since many claim that UPP is not the supplier.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8421
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 04 2018 7:27pm

No matter Neptronix. She"s hear maybe we can fix the caddle problen and connecton problems. An my new 20s 20ah 30q pack won't fix that box. Still looking ?

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / UPP / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 04 2018 8:44pm

999zip999 wrote:
Dec 04 2018 2:32pm
Sophia hang in there E.S. can be a rough place . Tech talk is always weclome. Just don't cross the bridge into sales in this section.
Thanks, there is a lot of tech info, a sales person should learn more tech knowledge and it is good to get more feedback about UPP, that is how we get better.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 04 2018 8:51pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 04 2018 2:58pm
I have edited UPP out of the name and first post since many claim that UPP is not the supplier.
Hi, neptronix, the battery picture I took from our workshop, next door to our office.
Some claim that upp is not the supplier, probably bought battery not direct from UPP, since we provide products to many other retailer.
Of course you can choose other better supplier than us, that is your rights.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8421
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 04 2018 11:00pm

We need to learn the limits of batteries, motors and bms plus controllers as a group we melt things. Ask me. Melt. Learn melt and learn. Ok.
Plus time Plus cycles.

User avatar
sophia.unitpackpower   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 25 2018 8:21pm
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by sophia.unitpackpower » Dec 05 2018 1:22am

Thanks for your advice dear, if get customer here, it is my luck, if no customer here, at least I can learn those thing, when other customer meet those problem. I can use what I learn from ES.
Ebike battery in USA ans Germany stock, provide local after sale service

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13048
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by fechter » Dec 05 2018 9:27am

One thing a battery manufacturer can find here with enough searching is how packs fail. Once you know how they fail, you can improve the design to avoid the failures. Some failures result in nasty fires, so we are very interested in design features that minimize the risk of fire. It's also bad if your expensive battery fails prematurely and you need to replace it.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
tomjasz   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3893
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: How a Lunacycle / Hailong battery fares after 2 years..

Post by tomjasz » Dec 05 2018 11:16am

Why does UPP choose to use nickel coated rather than pure nickel strips?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Post Reply