Dell Laptop Battery Charger for E-Bike (Renamed Thread from cc/cv)

markz

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I edited the title from
Normal non cc/cv PSU with a normal cc/cv charger to increase volts and still get cc/cv charge to battery

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The Question
Normal non cc/cv PSU with a normal cc/cv charger to increase volts and still get cc/cv?

We all know multiple normal cc/cv chargers in series to increase voltage will work.
Have to check to see if the grounds are isolated for safety.
In my haste to post, and search on ground isolating I found this.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28912&p=416650&hilit=isolate+ground#p416650

For 18s charging to 76v three 20v laptop chargers and 1 15v power supply will give you 75v=4.16v per cell

Is that a typo?
Interesting and Good


Quote from above link
Alot of you want to bulk charge quickly or at work but yet you want high cycle life. Laptop bricks are alot easier to deal with and not prone to vibration damage like meanwells. As long as they have decent passive cooling they work great as chargers. They can be found on ebay for a few dollars plus shipping. Most should be isolated. With a little plug work you can parallell the inputs and series the outputs for a nice charger on the go. If anyone else wants to chip in and add two cents then feel free.

It's usually pretty easy to isolate them. The simplest way would be to snip the ground pin off the power plug on two of the three chargers. The remaining ground pin will provide the needed safety ground.

Dell supplies tend to have an overload protection.

Do not use wall warts or transformers.

For 12s charging to 50v two 19v laptop chargers and 1 12v laptop supply gives you 50v=4.16v per cell
For 18s charging to 76v three 20v laptop chargers and 1 15v power supply will give you 75v=4.16v per cell
For 10s charging to 41v one 19.5v laptop charger and 1 22v laptop charger will give you 41.5v=4.15 per cell

Thats why I dont like the dells. I was using 4 fujitsu 16v bricks. That current limited at around 4.5A. The current limiting was built in. Somehow I think the dell communicates with the battery or something cause i could never put a load on it. It would always drop out.


more is said

they will shut down if overloaded a good thing, if they shut down simply turn them off for 10 seconds or so. Reset the pots installed between + and - wiper to the sense line and restart.
They are not CC or current limiting you have frequently readjust the pot during the charge, due to the battery volts going up

fletchers ideas on CC control with mean-wells

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27199&hilit=psu#p393104
I think the issue is that the meanwell supply tries to charge the pack as fast as it can, and because it's a low resistance load, the power supply overloads trying to charge the battery, and eventually smokes. I think the tppacks circuit tries to prevent this by doing some throttling.

Meanwell supplies, depending on the one you get, current limit by foldback. Meaning, They won't let the current go over a certain point, and if it does, it will drop the voltage until the current reduces.

Meanwell supplies, depending on the one you get, current limit by foldback. Meaning, They won't let the current go over a certain point, and if it does, it will drop the voltage until the current reduces.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27199&hilit=psu#p393212
YES Meanwells can be used as a charger

As for the more specific question contained in the body of the post..... not sure if I have seen that particular model mentioned, but if the voltage adjustment is anything similar to the S and SE series, then it could be possible to modify the charger to operate over a greater range than indicated in the page you linked to. and at 1500 Watt I woul dliek one too

*********Note that the Mean Well SE models change below 450W and above. Below is cc/cv, above is not.

As long as the voltage control sense system is the same as the S and SE series,t ehn I see no reaason why the tppacks board would not work to contro it,

on the added current limiting boards, I made one!
I thought the current limiting boards were more for charging at a reasonable rate to prevent damage to the pack?

edit - WRONG

the current limiting is too protect the power supply
 
I run HP 550 12.6v 40amps or so and a meanwell 24 at 10amps turned up and get 42v @ 15amps . I thought the 10a meanwell would have limited the ampage more. Works well 2yrs. Is this what you are asking?
 
Hey thanks 999zip999 for the reply, I realize my post is a bit of a rambler, but I'm squirrelly from being jammed up with no consistent method of charging like the dream HRP's.

Now I do have 2 rc chargers, Turnigy Accucel 6 80W needs a firmware update because right now it requires balance leads, and its not liking the fw load. Fix is I just hook up 1S of balance to fool it. The iMax B6 50W is the other and working. Made battery to split into 5S + 5S, both rc chargers run off Dell 12V 62A. Split pack after a charge to 19 and 20V, take off and didn't recharge after a few minute wait to get voltage before riding. The cold also reduces capacity. Rode and ended up walking home about a mile or two.

All 5 MW HRP's are bad.

New purchase of MW SE-1000-48 with 20A is a no go without a cc/cv dream. Though I must admit I did get it going a bit, with a 80ohm resistive load added with SE at 57V got 0.25A. It beat the Overload and Inrush protection circuit. Now I will start reducing the resistive load ohm value, and baby sit it. In the meantime, I am on rc charging duty tonight almost done 10S12P to storage voltage. Another rambler I know.

LED psu's dont get the amps I need to charge at 1C per 1P without a lot of money. 15-20A charging current.

Been thinking a plan of action.
1) I will continue to investigate my SE with resistive load, closely monitoring it.

2) Look into what cc/cv psu to buy to add in series with the SE, I figure a 5V 15A psu with the SE 40-56V 20A. Should revert to whatever volts and 15A. Good enough for me.

3) Order a cv "led driver"/"led psu" off Amazon for delivery to Canada.
Most do not say anything other then LED PSU, nothing mentioned on cv or cc.
All the DC-DC states that though.
I got this one in a tab, 12V 15A CV. Probably a MW clone with its S designation, singular output maybe "S"
https://www.amazon.ca/Supply%EF%BC%88SMPS%EF%BC%89Constant-Transformer-220VAC-DC12V-Monitoring-Industrial/dp/B0781T9483/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542182342&sr=1-20&keywords=power+supply+constant
With my good luck streak with the HRP's a 5V 15A HRP
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/POWERNEX-MEAN-WELL-NEW-HRP-75-5-5V-15A-75W-AC-DC-Power-Supply/252469719275?hash=item3ac85e30eb:g:74wAAOSwRgJXkJIU:rk:1:pf:0


Ramble ended.






999zip999 said:
I run HP 550 12.6v 40amps or so and a meanwell 24 at 10amps turned up and get 42v @ 15amps . I thought the 10a meanwell would have limited the ampage more. Works well 2yrs. Is this what you are asking?
 
999zip999 said:
I run HP 550 12.6v 40amps or so and a meanwell 24 at 10amps turned up and get 42v @ 15amps . I thought the 10a meanwell would have limited the ampage more. Works well 2yrs. Is this what you are asking?

Yes

Any ole psu in series with a charging psu.
Obtain the volts needed.
Obtain the control required.
 
Dell DA130PE1-00 is 19.5V and 6.7A
C$20 each
Reads right on open voltage and does not go higher.
Last night I hooked up to battery, its only pumping 880mA at 18.25V
That led me way off on a hunting expedition/tangent but its not the onewire protocol at all, its just the cccv process because the battV was close to chargerV, just tapers off more slowly then my MW HRP's.
I rode in the -8C cold weather today and got down to 17.75V Battery, Charger read 19.65V
Hooked up charger to battery and got 18.62V and 3A.

These laptop chargers are so small 1"x3"x6"
I split my pack in two now from 10S10P to 5S10P, before I was getting 36V 15A on two 24V HRP's in series, they were cumbersome to carry around. These laptop chargers are a dream. Now I just charge 5S10P to 19.5V, out about 1.5V but will make up for that in adding more in parallel and maybe a boost converter. It is fine fore now. I know for sure I will be adding 5 more in series, throw in one more laptop charger, then technically thats 21A in charging.

They are way smaller then my two MW HRP's I lugged around with me on my bike. I think I will end up with a slower charge time, just seems these consumer grade laptop chargers slow down on the charge current compared to the industrial HRP's.

Here is a pic of the inside, metal all around, tons and tons of heat transfer goo. Very hard to get off, but its doable. Not wise to do so though. That casing metal is actually connected to two of the metal mount heat sinks that two comp's are bolted to.

One thing I did notice and I have no clue about is the AC ground pin is connected to the DC ground by a wire.
These wont be going into series, just stand alones for each 5S segment when charging.

This is now going to be my main charging method everywhere I go.

IMG_0588.JPG




View attachment 2




dell opened up.jpg




 
Here is my battery with Sparkfun heating pads, tin foil folded over on the back side









https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11289
Simply apply 5VDC to the wire leads and within minutes, the pad will begin to warm up.
flexible and draw little power makes them ideal for things like hand-warmers and other heated garments. Maybe hook up a microcontroller and some sensors and make your own climate-controlled hoodie?

Here is one review of the pad, a nice chuckle
I purchased one of these heating pads to test its heating efficiency. The idea was to use it to keep a LiPo battery warmed to within it’s efficient temperature range. It would have been very helpful to have more data on the product such as how much current it draws both over time and at various temperatures and voltages, but I was unable to find this information. Because of that, I am going to have to perform extensive tests on my own to determine weather it is efficient enough to do what I need or not. To that end, it does not appear that it is, but I am still performing tests with the unit at room temperature, in a freezer with a known temperature range and later it will be tested packed in dry ice.

Awwww too bad, no gauge specifications boo hoooooo LOL




BEER ME!
 
Next step is to hook up them heating pads and insert temp sensors inside the pack.
I was thinking Ardruino or a clone.
When I went on the hunting expedition for no reason, I did learn something about OneWire Protocol.
You can have multiple sensors on one wire.
Now I do not like programming one bit, so the Ardruino OneWire Protocol idea may be a bit much for me.
This is what I was thinking, there is surely libraries with code in them for these basic functions.

Ardruino
Temp Sensor inside battery at multiple locations, say 5 to 8.
Temp Sensor on the outside of the wood on all four sides.
Voltage/Current/Ah/Wh meter.
All going to a mini display.
Even more adventageous is going to a BlueTooth enabled device for the cell phone.

I did buy a couple hundred 25R's for my next battery build, more compact, lighter, more distance.
My current 1.6Ah cell pack will be the winter/abuse pack.
 
Can A dee say. It must be cold as I just grabbed my hoodie. Its getting cold hear. So Cal. Plus I take my batteries to bed with me I know it gives them a charge.
I like the higher voltage psu to sart with. I thought the 24v meanwell at 10amps would limit the current to 10a but the hp 550 12.6v 50amp push it to 16amp ? I do need better meters. Hard to just guess the limit's. Verify
 
999zip999 said:
Can A dee say. It must be cold as I just grabbed my hoodie. Its getting cold hear. So Cal. Plus I take my batteries to bed with me I know it gives them a charge.
I like the higher voltage psu to sart with. I thought the 24v meanwell at 10amps would limit the current to 10a but the hp 550 12.6v 50amp push it to 16amp ? I do need better meters. Hard to just guess the limit's. Verify

I've been thinking of a way to bring mine in with an easy-disconnect system. I was thinking of heating up pvc piping to make an open box for the frame, lip on the bottom, foam padding, velcro, duct tape some handles to the battery. I like the XT90 connectors, getting low and need to buy another cpl packs.

I skipped the stupid Arduino/Pi idea

Gunna be using this, mounted on my handlebar, like a Cycle Analyst in a way.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B01EUISFFE/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

and haven't figured out the 5 or so temp sensors inside and on the edge of the pack.
There are little small devices you can buy that are just scaled down models of the Uno, and I assume Pi.

This one looks complicated and its more $$$$$
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B073W6453F/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvpv2_3?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_p=4e3c86df-9bbb-4a60-8164-aadd52e0639c&pd_rd_wg=hSN3O&pf_rd_r=8Y6NGGK7N09860VEPK2F&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-bottom-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B07CBC1X51&pd_rd_w=1ULao&pf_rd_i=null&pd_rd_r=b7623353-bfba-4d0b-ab43-0098292f52ee&ie=UTF8&qid=1542508430&sr=3&th=1


Temp sensor
https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/82

More findings
https://thesolaruniverse.wordpress.com/2017/07/26/arduino-communicating-data-from-multiple-sensors-to-a-neighbor-arduino-for-display/
In this project a Si7021 sensor breakout board is used connected to an Arduino Nano (Nano #1).

I think I can do that, copy and paste the code.
 
Temp sensor
Aquarium Temperature Gauge LCD Digital Thermometer For Fish Tank
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Black-White-Aquarium-Temperature-Gauge-LCD-Digital-Thermometer-For-FIish-Tank/263350767942?hash=item3d50edd146:m:m9kKkCIu4G7lpbfK3Sc8b7Q:rk:3:pf:0

Yeeco® Digital Multimeter DC 6.5-100V 50A Voltmeter Ammeter Amperage Voltage Power Energy Meter DC Volt Amp Current Watt Meter Gauge Power Monitor LCD Digital Display with 50A/75mV Shunt
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B01EUISFFE/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new



19.5V 7A Laptop charger is getting a tad hot
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Heat-Sink-Heatsink-for-High-Power-LED-Amplifier-Transistor-100x41x8mm/142145232627?epid=560286340&hash=item2118841ef3:g:Wi0AAOSwt~5bfTSm:rk:2:pf:0

pusher and a puller fans
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quiet-70x70x15mm-12V-For-Computer-PC-CPU-Silent-Cooling-Case-Fan/382062735705?hash=item58f4b6b159:g:-TIAAOSwcgNZAyj9:rk:3:pf:0

have to think about the case
 
I bought four Dell laptop psu's 19.50V 6.7A
They are all the same, Model DA130PE1-00

The first one I opened up and put back together, and its working fine.

The second I thought I messed it up by touching the two outputs of the charger and it just would not charge. I opened it up and began searching, drawing schematics, getting component #'s

The third I did nothing to it but it acts the exact same way as the second.

Normally the psu is 19.50V and the battery is say 17.00V, plug it in and the dmm will read 18.25V and start charging.

Symptom
I measure the laptop charger, it reads 19.50V
I plug laptop charger into the battery, it reads battery voltage.
I unplug laptop charger and measure its voltage, it starts dropping from battery V to 3V.

The first one, I opened up carfeully, by spling the output cable gingerly, cutting each wire separately. Peeling back the thin metal encasing, unsoldering the metal casing from the heat sink of the Dual Shotty Diodes, scraping off a minimal amount of glue, put it all back together.
Works Fine!

Second unit, had "The Symptom" - I thought I frocked up by touching the laptop charger outputs. I kinda like t/s stuff and trying to learn, so thinking I messed up I went t/s'ing. Found nothing, except following traces, took out the OneWire output 3 wire "doodad" The second unit I took off the positive rail heat sink for the Schotty Diode, took out one Schotty to get labela, put back in. Power it up, looked at voltages. Learned a bit I guess.
Gave up!

Wired up a third used laptop charger I bought with an XT90, triple checked polarity. I will check the labels to see if there is a difference.
Third unit has The Symptom. I Gingerly cut open the output insulation, cutting the ground wire, then cutting the OneWire and black together. Cutting off the Ferrite/Choke buldge and end connector as one.
 
One thing to keep in mind is the required voltage swing through the charging cycle. The unit with CC/CV needs to accommodate the entire voltage swing.

For example, a 52v (14s) pack might go as high as 58.8v at end of charge. If the cells were discharged to 3v/cell, that would be starting out at 42v. That's a swing of 16.8v. So if your charger is made of fixed (non-CC) supplies in series with a true CC/CV supply, the CC/CV supply needs to work over the entire voltage range.
 
Wow what a couple of days I've been having.
My battery is on its last legs. I mean really; a split pack of two 5S10P into 10S10P 15Ah when I got them used. Only being able to go 6km.
When it reduced to 25km I could handle that, even 21km wasn't bad but the drop off from in distance came quick.

I could charge to 19.50V for each side, getting both in series to 39V off the charger. LVC is set to 32V.

Basically these Dell laptop battery chargers are just power supplies with cv.
The cc comes from inside the laptop.

I put on a resistance on the output, gets past the chargers shutting down. Measure between 4 and 8A and charger getting to 40C at the tapped transformer spot.

I figure two of these for both laptop chargers.
https://www.amazon.ca/Converter-Transformer-Regulator-Controller-Constant/dp/B00E8D7XYG/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1543038745&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=dc+dc+boost+constant&psc=1
Boost Voltage Converter, Drok 600W 12A Dc Boost Voltage Converter 12~60V To 12~80V StepUp Power Supply Transformer Module Regulator Controller Constant Volt/Amp Car

Only reason is because it will be here in a day or two, hopefully that extra 2.50V will increase my range to atleast 15km I'd be happy.
 
markz said:
I figure two of these for both laptop chargers.
https://www.amazon.ca/Converter-Transformer-Regulator-Controller-Constant/dp/B00E8D7XYG/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1543038745&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=dc+dc+boost+constant&psc=1
Boost Voltage Converter, Drok 600W 12A Dc Boost Voltage Converter 12~60V To 12~80V StepUp Power Supply Transformer Module Regulator Controller Constant Volt/Amp Car

Those should work out nicely as you can adjust the CC and CV set points to keep the supply happy. You might be able to feed one with two laptop supplies in parallel if they both have the same voltage.
 
What I noticed about these Dell laptop power supplies.

1) To work as a stand alone charger, it needs to limit the current upon plugin. Then after stabilization limiter can be removed.
- I used a heating element ~2ohm, bought some various 100W pwr res 6x0.5ohm, 2x1ohm, 2x2ohm. I had one laptop charger able to work on its own, but the charger got to 60C, I was not able to measure current due to blown fuses for 10A measurement.

2) The voltage slowly creeps up 0.01V at a time while current varies, 4-7A.
- Right now its within 1.00V and the current is at 0.75A.

3) Near the end when the laptop voltage gets near or equal to the battery voltage, there is very little if no curent at all.
- I don't see any brains inside the charger, others say its just a regular old power supply, control comes from inside the laptop.
- I have not checked to see what happens when left on the charger. This weekend I will get to that.


Half my pack went bad on the split pack, luckily I had another ready to go. 1/8" wood, all around, holes for 2 10awg, and a roll of duct tape.
:lol:

I will show you my new setup, it is going to be like Sondors triangle box, but not as nice.
Angle iron with holes in them for garage door units. Doubled up and sandwiched between 1/8" or 3/16" x 2" angle iron and same x 5" flat iron. Threaded rod to squeeze it in. It rests on the frame a bit on the bottom, cruiser bike. Where I'm at right now, winging it. This is going to be a quick release/access holder, using velcro. Inside the triangle. When thats rocking I will do a more refined PVC pipe and clothes iron method.
Paint black and good to go. Pic's in a few hours! The usual markz craftsmanship :oops:



I will do for now with what I got, but I did order cheaper units off ebay.
I noticed the China seller changed their ad and now does not ship to Canada, odd.

250/600W 10A Step Up DC Boost Converter Constant Current Power Supply LED Module
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/250-600W-10A-Step-Up-DC-Boost-Converter-Constant-Current-Power-Supply-LED-Module/323336083961?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=512399902048&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649




fechter said:
Those should work out nicely as you can adjust the CC and CV set points to keep the supply happy. You might be able to feed one with two laptop supplies in parallel if they both have the same voltage.
 
Here is the dc-dc booster I found somewhere in my "stuff" box that I bought 2.5 yrs ago.
I knew it was around somewhere, never had used it nor any dc-dc before.
Another one of the sellers ads states its 150W not 120W, typical Chinesium.

DC-DC Boost Converter 10-32V to 35-60V Step Up Power supply module 120W
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC-DC-Boost-Converter-10-32V-to-35-60V-Step-Up-Power-supply-module-120W/171907514369?hash=item28067c8001:g:j9AAAOSw7I5Tw3Oc:rk:68:pf:0
Last night I started to draw out the circuit diagram for that dc-dc, it looks amazingly simple. It only has one variable resistor for the voltage.

Ordered 2 more of these
250/600W 10A Step Up DC Boost Converter Constant Current Power Supply LED Module
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/250-600W-10A-Step-Up-DC-Boost-Converter-Constant-Current-Power-Supply-LED-Module/323336083961?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=512399902048&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I will hook up some Chinesium voltage and current meters.



I had to grind down some solid wiring for it to fit the minscule fastener, tightened the mini bolt but it never felt secured so I soldered them.
 
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