any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
Post Reply
User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 W

100 W
Posts: 285
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Nov 28 2018 5:01pm

I'm hoping someone on this list has had some experience (either good or bad) with these guys:

https://outlastlhs.com/battery-matrix/

Image

Seems to be an interesting way to build a battery pack with the additional benefit of longer battery life.

Thoughts?

M

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 26003
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by amberwolf » Nov 28 2018 8:04pm

only reference i know of

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1241253

As far as longer life goes, it will only matter if you are overheating your cells to the phase-change point regularly; otherwise it doesn't really do much for the temperature in the pack, as I understand it.

If you have a large enough pack (or a small one built of cells with low enough internal resistance) to not heat up while under the load your system applies to it, it's better than using any form of pack cooling, because you're using the cells well within their design limits and not losing energy to waste heat in the first place.

If you have cost and space constraints that require using a small pack with cells with higher Ri, the PCM stuff might help the cells' longevity (but they're still wasting energy as heat, so you won't get as much capacity out of them as you could).


If you need cell holders anyway, and the cost difference beween the PCM and regular ones is negligible, not much reason to not use the PCM instead.

User avatar
PaulD   100 W

100 W
Posts: 208
Joined: Aug 28 2008 5:42pm
Location: Ashland, OR, USA
Contact:

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by PaulD » Nov 28 2018 10:12pm

No experience with that material, but keep in mind it softens up at phase change temperature. The datasheet says shore 45A at 70c, which is like pencil eraser stiffness. You'll need to have cell support structure other than this.

User avatar
jonescg   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3413
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by jonescg » Nov 28 2018 10:18pm

I have their brochure on my desk right now. As others have stated, it's great for absorbing heat but if it goes through a phase change, it's clearly not designed to be structural.

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 W

100 W
Posts: 285
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Nov 29 2018 8:58am

PaulD wrote:
Nov 28 2018 10:12pm
No experience with that material, but keep in mind it softens up at phase change temperature. The datasheet says shore 45A at 70c, which is like pencil eraser stiffness. You'll need to have cell support structure other than this.
Yeah, I assume that a battery box is required, not only for support but to keep things water tight. Still, given the benefit it seems to me that if the cost is reasonable it might be better than using the typical plastic cell spacers.

Michael

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13289
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by fechter » Nov 29 2018 9:26am

The fact that it prevented propagation when a cell shorted is a pretty big benefit. There may be other (cheaper) materials that would have the same effect.

I wonder how expensive it is?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 W

100 W
Posts: 285
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Nov 29 2018 9:50am

amberwolf wrote:
Nov 28 2018 8:04pm
As far as longer life goes, it will only matter if you are overheating your cells to the phase-change point regularly;
Lord knows that nobody on this list ever overheats their cells! :P

M

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 W

100 W
Posts: 285
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: any experience with Outlast phase-change material?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Nov 29 2018 1:40pm

fechter wrote:
Nov 29 2018 9:26am
I wonder how expensive it is?
I have just been in touch with their sales department. They don't sell to consumers. But they did provide the following insight: "10,000’s sleeves is affordable and in the cents/sleeve range."

So in theory, battery "bricks" could be fabricated with extra thermal protection for around the same price we currently pay for battery bricks fabricated with inexpensive plastic battery spacers.

Michael

Post Reply