Toyota and Panasonic form huge battery R&D & production partnership

neptronix

neptronix

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https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Bu...onic-to-build-electric-car-batteries-together

Panasonic and Toyota will also team up to develop next-generation batteries, an undertaking that requires enormous cash outlays and significant technical expertise. Projects will include solid-state lithium batteries, which have a high capacity -- a must for improving the range of electric cars -- and are safer than existing options. The two companies had reached a deal in 2017 to explore a tie-up in the field.
Click to expand...

This is huge and will change the EV landscape in a few years.
 
Good to see this. Solid state batteries are promising but that field of study is a very new one, and it will be great to see some bigger players get involved.
 
I bet when we get upto the $20billion mark in R&D we'll find some breakthrough SS battery... its just a matter of time/people/money....
 
Philaphlous said:
I bet when we get upto the $20billion mark in R&D we'll find some breakthrough SS battery... its just a matter of time/people/money....
Click to expand...

I used to think that was true, but you actually just need someone who figures out a solution that meets the cost/mfg/performance/safety needs no matter where it comes from. No hard requirement for some vast amount of time or money/resources, it could come from a kids science fair project on a sub $40 budget if they got super lucky with material/process choices. That said, it's gotta increase the odds in your favor if you have budget and labor to be able to test more things faster.
 
liveforphysics said:
Philaphlous said:
I bet when we get upto the $20billion mark in R&D we'll find some breakthrough SS battery... its just a matter of time/people/money....
Click to expand...

I used to think that was true, but you actually just need someone who figures out a solution that meets the cost/mfg/performance/safety needs no matter where it comes from. No hard requirement for some vast amount of time or money/resources, it could come from a kids science fair project on a sub $40 budget if they got super lucky with material/process choices. That said, it's gotta increase the odds in your favor if you have budget and labor to be able to test more things faster.
Click to expand...

So what your saying is when I eventually take apart some old dead 18650 cells and accidentally spill some table salt in them then close them up and realize they charge at a 10amp rate to 8000mah it's possible? Lol.
 
I think this sounds like a high up corporate decision, and not something sparked from an innovation in a lab.

Lots of manpower and hours will definitely lead to refinement of known technology. But not necessarily lead to innovation.
 
bearing said:
I think this sounds like a high up corporate decision, and not something sparked from an innovation in a lab.
Click to expand...
Solid state batteries were sparked from innovations in a lab. I can think of half a dozen players that contributed it to being a reality, from Goodenough to Ionic to Solid Power to MIT to 24M. However, at some point you have to invest the tens to hundreds of millions to build a fab and actually build the things in quantity.
 
bearing said:
I think this sounds like a high up corporate decision, and not something sparked from an innovation in a lab.

Lots of manpower and hours will definitely lead to refinement of known technology. But not necessarily lead to innovation.
Click to expand...

Who knows. Panasonic has been talking about producing solid state batteries and i believe this is related to that.
I also believe that Tesla is banking on the availability of solid state batteries for their new roadster.

Too bad i can't find something more extensive to share.
 
bearing said:
I think this sounds like a high up corporate decision, and not something sparked from an innovation in a lab.

Lots of manpower and hours will definitely lead to refinement of known technology. But not necessarily lead to innovation.
Click to expand...

+1
Bingo.
 
Table salt on a conventional 18650 guts won't do it, but if you pair the right materials, its no physics problem to go way beyond 8Ah, perhaps 80Ah in an 18650, just a materials stability and compatibility problem.

Philaphlous said:
liveforphysics said:
Philaphlous said:
I bet when we get upto the $20billion mark in R&D we'll find some breakthrough SS battery... its just a matter of time/people/money....
Click to expand...

I used to think that was true, but you actually just need someone who figures out a solution that meets the cost/mfg/performance/safety needs no matter where it comes from. No hard requirement for some vast amount of time or money/resources, it could come from a kids science fair project on a sub $40 budget if they got super lucky with material/process choices. That said, it's gotta increase the odds in your favor if you have budget and labor to be able to test more things faster.
Click to expand...

So what your saying is when I eventually take apart some old dead 18650 cells and accidentally spill some table salt in them then close them up and realize they charge at a 10amp rate to 8000mah it's possible? Lol.
Click to expand...
 
More news today.

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/corporate/26302587.html?adid=ag478_mail&padid=ag478_mail

The scope of the joint venture's business operations will cover research, development, production engineering, manufacturing, procurement, order receipt, and management related to automotive prismatic lithium-ion batteries, solid-state batteries, and next-generation batteries.

...

The total number of employees from both companies related to operations subject to transfer to the joint venture is 3,500 (as of the end of December 2018).
Products produced by the joint venture will be sold to various automakers through, in principle, Panasonic.
Click to expand...
 
I find it interesting that the biggest (only?) players in the lithium battery business (Panasonic, LG, Toshiba, Sony and Samsung) are based in Japan and Korea.

2 countries that also happen to be very good at making cars.
 
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