What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by docw009 » Mar 24 2019 4:27pm

tomjasz wrote:
Mar 24 2019 1:42am
Another report of a UPP, Unit Pack Power battery up in flames.
I didn't hear about the first one. How did this one go up? Charging? Soft sided or in a hard case?

Ironically, I bought (small 36V bottle battery) one last December and it's getting charged for the first time today. Outside on the driveway.

pullin-gs   100 W

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by pullin-gs » Mar 24 2019 8:41pm

This one will not burn house down for sure!
Image

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by Andrewol » Mar 25 2019 5:59am

Will aluminum can with 2mm thick sidewalls be fine for fireproof battery storage?
What bms 21S best options for diy we have? Preferably based on TI BQ76940, BQ76PL455A ICs

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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by Lebowski » Mar 25 2019 6:23am

If you release all the energy of a 500Wh battery in 1 seconds, there's going to be a fire....

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by Andrewol » Mar 25 2019 6:29am

I'm not going to blast it in the can. It's for storage only, no all energy release in 1 second is expected

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 26 2019 4:20pm

docw009 wrote:
Mar 24 2019 4:27pm
tomjasz wrote:
Mar 24 2019 1:42am
Another report of a UPP, Unit Pack Power battery up in flames.
I didn't hear about the first one. How did this one go up? Charging? Soft sided or in a hard case?

Ironically, I bought (small 36V bottle battery) one last December and it's getting charged for the first time today. Outside on the driveway.
No one is saying battery fires don't happen.
With the 100's of millions of lithium battery packs on the planet, there's bound to be a few failures.

How many houses burn to the ground from electrical system failures?
How many houses burn down from falling asleep with a cigarette in bed?
How many houses burn down for unknown reasons?
Yes they happen, but you might as well be afraid of getting killed by a meteor.
The paranoia level over charging your battery pack is inordinate.
What else are you afraid of doing that might have a .01% chance of catching fire?
This is just silly!
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 26 2019 4:26pm

pullin-gs wrote:
Mar 24 2019 8:41pm
This one will not burn house down for sure!
Image
I had to laugh! And worst case you get baked potatoes. How bad would that be? Bring lots of butter and sour cream!

So I'm guessing here...you probably need a 50 pound bag of potatoes to get 10 amps. I've never tried, but could you really power an EV from potatoes? How hilarious would that be?!
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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by Philaphlous » Mar 26 2019 4:36pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 26 2019 4:26pm
pullin-gs wrote:
Mar 24 2019 8:41pm
This one will not burn house down for sure!
Image
I had to laugh! And worst case you get baked potatoes. How bad would that be? Bring lots of butter and sour cream!

So I'm guessing here...you probably need a 50 pound bag of potatoes to get 10 amps. I've never tried, but could you really power an EV from potatoes? How hilarious would that be?!

Don't forget the chives! My favorite part!

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by mxer » Mar 26 2019 9:14pm

12s lipo all the way, been on them since 2012 with my trusty geared mac, wouldn't bother to touch anything else, mine are never balanced always bulk charged to 50v all within 3mv of each other years of commuting!!..

First set turnigy 10ah, second set multistar 16ah not bad for daily commuting 8 years later, lol..cheap running, even the multistars where even second hand off here fs, he he..

Soooooo easy like you say pull 30 amps all day long.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 27 2019 10:30am

Lipo cheap and just an alarm for lvc. I couldn't do it. As I had a fire with used makita packs. I will pay but need a 20s 20ah maybe 15ah pack. I hate a the connections.
Cheap? I love chives, but end up with cut green onions. Cheap

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by docw009 » Mar 27 2019 11:03am

ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 26 2019 4:26pm
I've never tried, but could you really power an EV from potatoes? How hilarious would that be?!
Perhaps an EV for a flea circus, or a potato bug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNjPHcIzQkM

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 27 2019 2:53pm

Don't rule it out Idaho has some big potatoes. You may have to lose all your lbs and go to ounces for a go at it.
Last edited by 999zip999 on Mar 28 2019 11:42am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by flippy » Mar 28 2019 10:43am

999zip999 wrote:
Mar 27 2019 2:53pm
Don't rule it out Idaho has some big potatoes. You may have to lose all your lbs and to ounces for a go at it.
with 30% obesity they could certantly lose a few pounds. :mrgreen:
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 28 2019 11:41am

The safest big use ebike battery if fits. Would be an A123 20ah pouches 16s just wide enough to fit between the legs can you get it inside the triangle ? Can be use at very high amps and mine is 5yrs old 1,290 cycles and still works great. Yes is showing some age. But controller set at 80amps. Yes I ride wot for 5yrs.

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 28 2019 9:57pm

999zip999 wrote:
Mar 28 2019 11:41am
The safest big use ebike battery if fits. Would be an A123 20ah pouches 16s just wide enough to fit between the legs can you get it inside the triangle ? Can be use at very high amps and mine is 5yrs old 1,290 cycles and still works great. Yes is showing some age. But controller set at 80amps. Yes I ride wot for 5yrs.
I'm pretty sure a potato battery is safer and it will definitely be lots bigger. You might need to build a crate over the back wheel to hold the 50 pounds of Idaho spuds!
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 28 2019 9:57pm

docw009 wrote:
Mar 27 2019 11:03am
ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 26 2019 4:26pm
I've never tried, but could you really power an EV from potatoes? How hilarious would that be?!
Perhaps an EV for a flea circus, or a potato bug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNjPHcIzQkM
cute video...
what's got me puzzled however is the guy spent time to motorize a potato!
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 29 2019 2:43pm

God what if it used a camera nano motors and went 2mi. With a camera ?
As you saw the potato went to the oven. Damm sure it would here gone to the fire alerting Dogman and saved the garage. Shit I should have had one too.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by e-beach » Mar 29 2019 6:31pm

Ok ,I am a little late to the dance on this post, but to comment on the original question of "What type of battery?" I would say any kind you want. High volatility or low volatility isn't that much of a issue if you are charging outside in a reasonably fireproof containment spot. If you like that rc lipo stuff, use it. As you pointed out, you may lose some cycles due to summer heat, but the stuff is relatively cheap.

Get anything you wanna get now that you are charging outside.

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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 29 2019 7:43pm

I do monitor NO bms. Monitor and monitor wear out some sense wires. You you human bms . Ok. Oh. Monitor. Should be safe. Monitor
Hey e-brake get you ass here down south. Where its civilize and we can do it when you want as long as you are professional sbout it get it. So bring your cup holder and 15 amp your hours pm me. Hey got to much my garage get some.
Plus how is your potato ?
Dan chime in about your favorite c battery choice how do you like your potato ???
Last edited by 999zip999 on Mar 31 2019 1:35pm, edited 3 times in total.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by dogman dan » Mar 31 2019 7:50am

Not sure I know the code for that last post.

My point on this thread definitely is that now that my house burned down, I AM paranoid. Even my Ryobi tool batteries are charging outside the house. I do trust them a lot more though, and charge them in a detached garage. If it burns I lose shit, but I can still live in the house. But hobby king packs will stay outside.

But paranoid as I am, I will run any shitty battery I want, since it aint never coming into the attached garage to charge! It don't matter if I run A 123 lifepo4, cheap ass 18650's or terrible dangerous lithium cobalt packs for drones. All same, not coming into the building I live in. So my paranoia is actually freedom.

Battery fires btw, rarely occur when just in storage. It's while they are charging, and particularly at top of charge that they blow. Or,, they blow when damaged, like crashes, dropping the pack, or the good ol KFF trick. The main thing about charging outside from now on, is I can nod off while it charges. The night my house burned, I forgot about the charging battery, and went to bed. I would be dead if my wife had not been awake when the house went up. She got me up fast, fast enough to call for help, and get the dogs out of the house.

The safest storage is obvious, more discharged rather than full.


What do you do if you can't store them outside? The oven in your kitchen is likely the safest place for them to be while you sleep. It will resist any possible fire long enough to buy you the time to get out alive, and wake up your neigbors if its apartments.

And of course, never fall asleep on any kind of charging battery. Not even the Roomba.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 31 2019 2:02pm

I bought use Makita packs 35 of them and being used and returned as defective. Maybe dropped in water or frozen ect. These packs were sitting untouched and made fire in my garage . Not hooked up. Fire shooting out of the top of cell.

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by Hillhater » Mar 31 2019 4:44pm

999zip999 wrote:
Mar 28 2019 11:41am
The safest big use ebike battery if fits. Would be an A123 20ah pouches ....
Wasnt it Fisker who used A123 pouches in their cars ?
..and didnt their whole busines fail when those pouches started to burn those cars up ?
Sure, i know it was tracked to a manufacturing fault at the A123 plant, producing a practically undetectable defect in the cell,....... but it still shows thar any cell can flame .
....and there are probably still thousands of those original A123 pouches around , selling cheap, somewhere.
So you have to be wary !
..and,..as we keep repeating ,..MOST battery fires are the result of poor pack assembly, wireing, damage, incorrect charging , over discharging, BMS failure, human error, etc etc.....the type of cell is a minor factor .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by fechter » Mar 31 2019 5:33pm

Any battery powerful enough to run a bike has the potential to burn. But the percentage that burn is very low.

Laptop batteries can burn too and there are a lot of them out there.
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 31 2019 7:32pm

Fechter what is your recommendation?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: What battery to choose after your last one burned your house.

Post by fechter » Mar 31 2019 11:54pm

Lithium titanate seems the most robust but the energy density is poor. A good choice for stationary applications but for a bike I would still use li-ion.
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