Yeah thread has really derailed talking about Mars.
With everyone being so positive about Tesla/Musk, I feel its important to dig up the negative stuff that's out there, or maybe I am just an "asshole"
When I look at execs at publically listed companies all I tend to see in them is the greed, in that so many CEOs of publically listed companies have almost nothing else going in their head other than when they can legally dump their stock.
When the company lists publically they have to hold shares for at least a few years, and are expected to hold onto shares during the time they run the company.
Then it comes down an exit strategy to dump shares and not arouse suspicion from the rest of the shareholders.
Maybe Elon Musk is different, but his antics in trying to push up the stock price seem to be getting dubiously obvious. We all know about the "Funding Secured tweet" https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/27/17911428/sec-lawsuit-elon-musk-tesla-funding-tweet
But the most recent one that happened a day ago is this "FSD option" when buying the car.
Some argue the future based "FSD option" was on there for a stock price/sales-price bump but now its gone, and the upcharge for this future feature has not been refunded. It could be that they did this because they are afraid of more legal action from SEC.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-full-self-driving-going-away/
Elon's Tweets are quite entertaining, and there are even tweets that basically say "yes it's about the money, but it's for good and not evil"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1050811017221963776
So it can be argued he just wants to make as much money as possible so he can go to Mars, which means he can never really make enough money because that is a very expensive thing to do.
Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is a good example of clever pump and dump in his stock, he has used the best lawyers to structure his shares into his OWN charity so he can legally dump his shares early and not arouse too much negative feedback.
Of course Zuckerberg can only "pump" up his stock via legal means such as telling the engineers to set the Facebook services serve more adverts and user "notifications" recommended friends or anything that might generate more user activity during a financial quarter. And this increased activity would be during the time that Zuckerberg has preset is share selling for charity plan would be, its all well timed.
Facebook insiders sold more stock than usual in the second quarter
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/26/facebook-insiders-sold-more-stock-than-usual-in-the-second-quarter.html
John Coffee, professor of law and director of the Center on Corporate Governance at Columbia Law School, said not all sales pursuant to Rule 10b5-1 are lawful, "although the exceptions are modest." He underlined Zuckerberg's estimated $80 billion net worth.
Selling Facebook stock wouldn't make much of a dent, especially when most of it is not going in his own pocket.
"It would not be worth the legal risk," Coffee said.
These plans can be used to sell for valid reasons such as for gifts to charity or taxes. However, Coffee noted typically tax-related selling spikes in the fourth quarter.
But some experts say these stock-selling plans have evolved into a legal way to "game" the system.
"People with good lawyers, and I presume Facebook executives can afford good lawyers, do a good job of gaming the 10b5-1 plans," said Cox, who specializes in securities law. "It was never supposed to be a license for systematic trading."
It's all about ways to sell the shares with loopholes because traditionally you're expected to hold your shares while you work at the company.
https://www.recode.net/2018/2/14/17012846/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-stock-sale-chan-zuckerberg-initiative-czi
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has started to accelerate his funding of the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the philanthropic investment vehicle he set up with his wife, Priscilla Chan, in late 2015.
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Alternative electric cars are crushing Tesla sales in some countries apparently.
Like I said in my other post where I grabbed a bunch of youtube reviews of all the other electric cars you can buy now or in a few months that easily popped up on google, the list is huge and Jaguar I-Pace is just the beginning but its already clearly starting a crush on Tesla
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608
And apparently, there have been new surprise models from the competition popping up with larger battery packs in the specs than what was officially announced
https://insideevs.com/60-kwh-nissan-leaf-price/
Then there is news that Tesla just lost yet another top executive.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/teslas-vp-of-manufacturing-gilbert-passin-is-out-source-2018-10?r=US&IR=T
Then there is Wallstreet wondering where Tesla will get $1billion from to service its debts
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/wall-street-wonders-how-tesla-will-pay-off-over-1b-in-debt-coming-due-2018-10
Maybe Elon's strategy will be to behave so erratically he gets kicked from the company and then he is morally right to dump his shares.
Elon Musk's extreme micromanagement has wasted time and money at Tesla, insiders say
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-extreme-micro-manager.html
Tesla CEO Elon Musk just introduced a 'lower-cost, mid-range' Model 3 via Twitter
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/18/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-tweets-about-35000-model-3-but-not-base-model.html
Apparently, you only get the cheap tax-credit based price if you "take delivery" of your car by the end of 2019? so thats like about 50 days?
The CNBC video tweet has the video advert free https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1053261240125046784
Tesla had all but pulled its free charging program but now its back.. I don't understand how it works as a "referral program" does that mean you have to get someone else to buy a Tesla to get free charging?
https://twitter.com/Teslarati/status/1053509215938068480
^Seems like Tesla is suddenly doing this because they are having trouble with sales?
Apparently, Tesla has the green light to issue new securities, if it wanted to. As far as I understand it, this doesn't mean they will, they justed wanted to be sure they could due to the issues that came from the "funding secured" tweet.
https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status/1052999891679674370
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Apparently, some claim there is a global ramp-up of large insurers tripling the cost to ensure a Tesla compared to other cars.
https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/2168831/will-tesla-lose-its-cool-hong-kong-insurer-triples-its
Last month, the insurer notified Jones that his policy – due for expiry in August 2019 – would be terminated by December this year. The former executive had clocked up 994 kilometres (618 miles) in two years, with no accidents or claims on his policy.
Axa offered him a new policy at HK$12,300 per annum, effectively tripling his annual payment. Additionally, the insurer raised the policy’s excess – the top-up that the car owner needs to make to qualify for a compensation – to HK$130,000, from HK$8,000.
“If I had known that the insurance would become so expensive, I would not have bought my Tesla in 2016,” Jones said. “Now the annual premium is three times the cost and the vehicle excess is 20 times as much
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This article is from last month, but its creates a pretty doomish point of view that I think is pretty solid, it paywalls after the first page, but the first page is all you need https://seekingalpha.com/article/4205580-tsla-tslaq-betting-zero
This is its summary
- The Model 3 has not shown an ability to generate demand beyond its approximately 420K total current reservations.
Once this backlog is worked through, Tesla won't be able to sustain profitability and cash generation.
Once the hype dies off, reality will set in, and current financials will dictate the share price, rather than product and technology hype.
Even assuming optimistic free cash flow estimates, Tesla stock gets cut down by more than 90%.
The equity, in my opinion, is worth zero.
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*ADD*
When I added the Hyundai Kona Electric on my other big list of competitive EVs that easily show up on youtube, post below,
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608
I figured the Kona EV wasn't at all "cool" compared to a Tesla to actually drive, or wasn't really going to be that well priced.
But it seems to be both, its $30,000 after tax credits in the USA and it has comparable range to the Tesla at 258miles. Apparently, this is the kind of range you typically pay double the money for.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/278964-2019-hyundai-kona-ev-tesla-like-range-for-about-30000-after-tax-credits
Checking out the reviews which are just flooding on youtube now, they seem to love the car. This video came out yesterday.
https://youtu.be/H6ukD-otTFA
[youtube]H6ukD-otTFA[/youtube]
So to me, it looks like these bombs of competition are gearing up as the doomsayers claim. So maybe potential customers like geckocycles situation below would be tempted by the Kona electric.
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geckocycles said:
Sadly we canceled our model 3 order. We waited for 2 years to get our $38000 car. Then our number finally came up and it was going to cost us close to $60000 if you really wanted to drive it.The tesla was going to cost us $760/mo with $10K down. We got our $1000 back in 2 days! Sad that we waited for 2 years and put up with all the delays for nothing.
We leased the I3 4 years ago but after we moved found that it didn't have the range needed anymore, so it sat for a year and was turned in with only 7000 miles on it.
They put in a charge station at my wifes work so now the I3 was being considered again. We bought a used BMW certified one with 11000 miles on it for $17300 with extended warranty.
For me the Tesla was more practical for lots of reasons but the final hidden costs were not.
Wow.
Yeah, I have only been looking at the more negative news lately which tends to come up on twitter but it seems like there are a lot of things like the "FSD" option in the purchase options was just tactics to string people into a more expensive purchase.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-full-self-driving-going-away/
^, Of course, insideevs is a very pro-tesla website but you can read in-between the lines that this is dubious activity.