Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

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Hillhater   100 GW

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Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 02 2020 8:52pm

Nissan have been struggling with sales for several years,....and have finaly taken steps to stop the bleeding !
Major production plants in Spain, Indonesia, etc are to be shut down, 20,000 jobs lost, and some markets exited to focus on key products and markets.
I suspect any model that is not selling in volume will be threatened..
Obviously this will affect all models in the Nissan, Renault, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, ranges..many of then being EVs,..obviously including the Leaf.
Here is the Ozzie take on the announcement ..
[youtube]ATMyjmWpR4o[/youtube]
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LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 02 2020 10:18pm

Nissan has released a list of the 12 cars they will continue to sell. The Leaf is missing from it, apparently replaced by the Ariya, an AWD Crossover that I played a very small part in developing. The Ariya in prototype form is much more traditional than the silly concept, although it may yet retain the very spartan-looking interior. I suspect (and this is my speculation alone) that with the Leaf gone, there will be an entry-level Ariya with the 40kwh pack and FWD.

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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 03 2020 12:33am

If that is the “concept” , it looks very much comparable to several other “cross over” cars that are already available .!..
But Nissan’s problem is now one of customer percenption.. of a failing company that is closing plants, dealerships,pulling out of whole countries, and likely will continue to do so.
Once a prospective buyer sense that ,..they hesitate and sales take a further dive.
In laymans terms,..they have “lost their Mojo” since their tie up with Renault etc.
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CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING   100 W

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Jun 03 2020 2:29pm

Sadly not surprising. Ghosn destroyed their image as anything but a cheap car for rental fleets in the US, and the Leaf has gotten a reputation for being a cheap EV and source for us DIY-ers more than as a "good" car. Heck, the 2nd Gen is close to Model 3 in price but I know of no objective benefit other than dealerships, and even then some have refused to service them in the past.

The concept looks like some of the Chinese stuff recently out of BYD. Maybe Nissan will go with aggressive styling to try and gain an edge.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 03 2020 7:11pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Jun 02 2020 10:18pm
Nissan has released a list of the 12 cars they will continue to sell. The Leaf is missing from it, apparently replaced by the Ariya, ....
I think you may have miss-read that list as it looks like it is the NEW models they will release..!
...this from another press report...
...Nissan will also reduce the overall number of models it builds by 20 per cent by 2023, from the current 69 down to approximately 55, by eliminating vehicles focused on only one market.

Combined with the company’s recent successful application from Japanese leading banks for financial capital, this will help fund a new product offensive.

Nissan has declared it will launch 12 new models in the next 18 months as it bids to reduce its average fleet age to less than four years. The priority will be on small- and mid-size passenger cars and SUVs, while also maintaining the GT-R and introducing the new Zed.
The plan also calls for eight full-electric models by 2023, including the all-new Ariya SUV.
So, all the indications are that the LEAF will survive for the immediate future, at least until some of these new models become available.
I hope they survive and recover some stability, Nissan (Datsun) and Mitsubishi are iconic car companies responsible for some of the worlds best vehicles ..Datsun “Zs”,.. “Godzilla’s”....Mitsubishi’s “Evo’s” etc.... and also the Leaf and the IMev were some of the first commercial EV’s that forced the pace of EV development adoption.
They are good manufacturers, that have been let down by bad management decisions.
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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 03 2020 8:12pm

I can only hope these company's survive Nissan especially since my birth mid 80's they have had some great cars pulsar gtir and the all mighty Godzilla series late 90's the r34 was on display Londons earls court motor show I sat in one and was blown away with the digital dash a boost, G display inspired direct from gran turismo just felt how special it was and could be.

Now earls court is smashed to the ground with no real motor show of short that has any traction, the classic car show In NEC Birmingham gets more visits than anything these days but that's nothing to what earls court could bring, damn TVR displayed a car in the 60 with a naked woman so the next year to one up themselfs they used 2 naked lady's lol but had the display closed down no more shenanigans, ah the good old days of health and safety videos with the instructor smoking a box of 20 while showing how to climb a chimney with ladders alone and walking on staging 300ft up knocked in with wooden pegs no safety ropes just men with brass balls id of loved it bare the 20fags on the head.

LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 03 2020 9:41pm

Heck, the 2nd Gen is close to Model 3 in price but I know of no objective benefit other than dealerships,
The Gen II Leaf is much more comfortable than the Model 3, including things you can't get on a Tesla, like heated steering wheel and Around View camera system. Nissan also still qualifies for the full Federal tax incentive, so when a Model 3 and leaf are priced the same, the Leaf is significantly less expensive to buy. I don't love Leaf batteries (my used Leaf buying guide confirms that) but I drive a Gen II Leaf that I like a lot and the only thing I'd move to from it would be a 62KWH Leaf ePlus. So I'm looking for one of those now, before they stop building them.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by markz » Jun 03 2020 10:02pm

Whats the head room like in any and all the EV's?
Any tall 6'5" people out there comment, thanks.

LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 03 2020 10:15pm

I'm down to 5'9" sadly, but I know that taller people in the six foot range find the Leaf comfortable. I'm really not sure about six and a half footers, though.

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Balmorhea » Jun 04 2020 2:02am

The 240Z would have been a great EV. That is, if it hadn't been propelled by incinerating future generations.
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LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 04 2020 7:19am

Balmorhea wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:02am
The 240Z would have been a great EV. That is, if it hadn't been propelled by incinerating future generations.

There was a Nissan concept car called, IIRC, the Blade Glider. It had four wheels, but the front wheels were very close together, and looked just a little bit like a 240Z. It was tentatively slated for future production, but that went away, of course.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by markz » Jun 04 2020 10:04pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:02am
The 240Z would have been a great EV. That is, if it hadn't been propelled by incinerating future generations.
Enforcement of noise nuisance is a must for the 240Z and other wanna-bee'z

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING   100 W

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Jun 05 2020 11:34am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Jun 04 2020 7:19am
Balmorhea wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:02am
The 240Z would have been a great EV. That is, if it hadn't been propelled by incinerating future generations.

There was a Nissan concept car called, IIRC, the Blade Glider. It had four wheels, but the front wheels were very close together, and looked just a little bit like a 240Z. It was tentatively slated for future production, but that went away, of course.

Image
Ah, the IDx. It was ready to build but Ghosn axed it at the last second.

Also, thanks for the second opinion- that's the first time I've heard a direct comparison between the 3 and the Leaf II, but in my area I've only seen a single Leaf II and tons of 3s. I had also forgotten about the tax incentive.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 05 2020 4:58pm

The IDX was a different concept car - it wasn't the Blade Glider OR the basis for the Ariya. It was, IIRC, a way to showcase the semi-autonomous driving features now found in the Pro Pilot option. The Blade Glider, again IIRC, used two Leaf motors and a Leaf battery pack. It was much closer to production than the IDX ever got. They also did a one-off Leaf II with dual motors and AWD. That was expected/hoped to become the NISMO Leaf, but now that the Leaf appears over, the Ariya, with the same two motor configuration, will fill that niche as well.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 05 2020 8:11pm

The dual motor Leaf(s) were development prototypes for the Ariya, and used as pre release demonstrators for the press.
But dual motors seems overkill for a 230kW package, as we know the single motor can give more than that on its own. It seems like a lot of extra weight and complication just for the benefit of 4WD ?
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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Jun 06 2020 11:28am

Thanks leftie. All that's doing now is making me sadder for Nissan's current position; I hope they're hungry now and start taking chances again, 'cause they're gonna need to.
Hillhater wrote:
Jun 05 2020 8:11pm
The dual motor Leaf(s) were development prototypes for the Ariya, and used as pre release demonstrators for the press.
But dual motors seems overkill for a 230kW package, as we know the single motor can give more than that on its own. It seems like a lot of extra weight and complication just for the benefit of 4WD ?
Big difference in the OEM world versus "can go" and "should go" when it comes to power level; people want predictable after all, thus thing like the piece-of-soggy-white-bread Murano SUV. Also, their AWD systems may not even be able to cope with the torque, so economies of scale might mean it's better just to run dual motors than even attempt to adapt an AWD system.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 06 2020 10:17pm

Sure, but the benefits of AWD are irrelavent to, lost on, 99% of Nissan sedan buyers.
Anyone needing or wanting AWD should be looking a Subaru, Audi, Tesla, or Range Rover.
But to lump the extra 100+kg and associated cost + complexity into what will mostly be a city car....seems like the type of decision that got Nissan into this situation. They seem to be just following a market trend
200+ kW is common in modern FWD cars, and i am sure Nissan would know how to uprate an EV drivetrain for that output.
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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by markz » Jun 10 2020 3:28am

AWD for winter driving is a bonus
Electric vehicle for winter driving is a hindrance and not worth it. I heard you lose a lot of power whether it be the battery heaters, using your cab heaters. Even if you park your ev in the garage, you still gotta park it out in the cold in the winter.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by Balmorhea » Jun 10 2020 3:35am

markz wrote:
Jun 10 2020 3:28am
Electric vehicle for winter driving is a hindrance and not worth it.
Being able to start every time seems like an advantage.
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CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING   100 W

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Jun 10 2020 6:23am

Yeah snow tires are what you really need- AWD only sometimes, and that comes from a subaru owner.

Depends on the person and lyfestyle when it comes to range degradation; I would have no problem in my current life with a ~40 mile range EV, others obviously not so much. Plus, they've gotten much better and it also depends on chemistries.

LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 10 2020 7:16am

Heat pumps increase range in moderately cold Winter temps. Larger batteries mean less range anxiety.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by markz » Jun 10 2020 11:42am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Jun 10 2020 7:16am
Heat pumps increase range in moderately cold Winter temps. Larger batteries mean less range anxiety.
Nothing is moderately cold in most of Canada for weeks at a time. What is moderately cold to an EV?
When you got to park your car out in the cold for 8-12hrs, at the office, at the cabin then a new Toyota with synethic oil is fine then no need to worry about range anxiety either. If I want to go 3000 miles I can without a second thought and without any wasted time charging. For the majority of consumers, they wouldnt need much more then a couple hundred miles anyways but still they'd need a second vehicle. I couldnt imagine waiting for hours at a time, a couple times a day just to "fuel up" but to some that would work.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 10 2020 4:20pm

markz wrote:
Jun 10 2020 11:42am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Jun 10 2020 7:16am
Heat pumps increase range in moderately cold Winter temps. Larger batteries mean less range anxiety.
Nothing is moderately cold in most of Canada for weeks at a time. What is moderately cold to an EV?
When you got to park your car out in the cold for 8-12hrs, at the office, at the cabin then a new Toyota with synethic oil is fine then no need to worry about range anxiety either. If I want to go 3000 miles I can without a second thought and without any wasted time charging. For the majority of consumers, they wouldnt need much more then a couple hundred miles anyways but still they'd need a second vehicle. I couldnt imagine waiting for hours at a time, a couple times a day just to "fuel up" but to some that would work.
Heat pumps currently boost Winter range down to about 25F, with some slight improvement down to about 15F. Switching to a cutting edge heat pump would take that range boost down to about 0F. You can't complain about EVs not going 3,000 miles between charges while ignoring the advantage of "refueling" in your own garage or driveway. What Canadians in your situation need is a good PHEV, not an ICE-only vehicle.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by boytitan » Oct 19 2020 8:06am

All nissan had to do was never try crazy ugly concept cars like the juke, and ditch the cvt in regular cars. Have the specs and looks of the current leaf in the older models. Nissan has all of the technology to be dominating the car market just dumb ideas. I'm sure theres a market for cvts but even the premium maximum has a cvt when theres absolutely no reason for the maximum not to have the same automatic as a 350.

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Re: Will the Nissan Leaf survive ?

Post by ZeroEm » Oct 19 2020 8:44am

by LeftieBiker » Jun 03 2020 10:15pm

I'm down to 5'9" sadly, but I know that taller people in the six foot range find the Leaf comfortable. I'm really not sure about six and a half footers, though.
I'm 6'2" 260lbs, bought a 2013 leaf. I could not believe the leg room, i'm totally comfortable. Sitting in the Car when I was just shopping sold me the next thing that is this roomy for me is a Truck. Say what you must but I like driving the Leaf. Have not tried the others so not bashing them. The old VW bugs had good head room also.
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