Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Topics related to EV businesses
User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16343
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by neptronix » Dec 28 2021 10:07pm

Mindblowing!

https://electrek.co/2021/12/28/hyundai- ... tric-cars/
Hyundai announced that it is shutting down its internal combustion engine development team as the automaker focuses on electric cars.

For 40 years the Korean automaker has been developing internal combustion engines to use in its vehicle lineup, but no more.

The Korea Economic Daily reports that Hyundai’s new R&D chief Park Chung-kook confirmed in an email to employees that they are shutting down new engine development:

“Now, it is inevitable to convert into electrification. Our own engine development is a great achievement, but we must change the system to create future innovation based on the great asset from the past.”

Hyundai reportedly had 12,000 people working on engines, but they are now being transferred to EV powertrain development:

“Researchers at the engine design unit have moved to the electrification design center, leaving only some to modify existing engines. The powertrain system development center is transforming into an electrification test center, while the powertrain performance development center is becoming an electrification performance development center.”
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10413
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Chalo » Dec 28 2021 10:14pm

Resource blowing!

We have a fleeting chance to change what cars are like for the much better, but 'tards are doing the opposite. An electrically powered 4000 pound pod stuffed with rare materials and gigawatt-hours of squandered energy is approximately the same size disaster as one that runs on deatholeum.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 29 2021 7:21am

I suspect a fair bit of “journalistic licence” going on there..
The 12,000 employees refers to the total Hyundai R&D center,..the engine development team is only one part of that .
Then there is this,.
.
.Researchers at the engine design unit have moved to the electrification design center, leaving only some to modify existing engines.
Note that it is just the “Researchers” that are moving,.. leaving others to continue development.?
So, it is not 12,000 employees being redirected, ....it is just “some” from one team within that R&D group. !
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

j bjork   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1333
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by j bjork » Dec 29 2021 2:10pm

I dont think it is something exclusive to hyundai, I am pretty sure that some of the newer developed Audi engines is expected to be the last one of that size. It is probably the same with many manufacturers. They dont really have a choice, do they?

How long are they even allowed to sell cars with ice engines, to 2030?
Even today's emissions demands is hard to fulfill, and it is not getting easier. So trying to launch new ice engines is probably not much use.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16343
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by neptronix » Dec 29 2021 2:21pm

True, it's a low bar to slide under because it's very obvious that we only have very high hanging fruit to pick with the ICE. No number of very expensive experiments by large automakers have churned out anything other than small incremental improvements.

ICE is a dead end technology as far as i'm concerned, not just because of regulations, but also because once we solve the battery density problem, electrics will eventually begin to eclipse ICE due to the technological advantage.

I like seeing that a huge automaker's looking to jump ship a bit earlier than the others.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 29 2021 7:05pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 29 2021 2:21pm
........ No number of very expensive experiments by large automakers have churned out anything other than small incremental improvements.
Hmmm? ..fuel consumption , and hence emissions, has dropped dramatically in recent years. 5-10 mpg was not unusual but now 30-50 mpg is possible for those that care enough to choose suitable vehicles.
The Hybrid ( Prius, Lexus, etc) practically halved fuel use in those vehicles by combining ICE with EV tech whilst avoiding large , heavy, expensive batteries , recharging concerns,and, range limitations of full BEVs.
If emissions were a real concern, authorities could have encouraged the use of LPG or CNG in ICEs, which would again dramatically reduce emissions overnight with a straightforward conversion .....but the reality is , they actually prevented that advance !?
There is also the very real potential for using Hydrogen to fuel heavy (diesel) powered vehicles,....but that is constrained by the logistics of Hydrogen availability, cost, and distribution networks.
I am all for EV technology when the costs are realistic but despite all the media hype, the reality is there will be ICE vehicles around for many years yet....long past our lifetimes...
And it is not just a battery cost or energy density issue,...it is a whole new battery technology that is needed to be viable.
Just as there is a finite supply of oil, so is there a finite resource of many of the materials required to produce current tech batteries and electric machines .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

JackFlorey   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1307
Joined: Feb 19 2020 7:22pm

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Dec 29 2021 11:00pm

Hillhater wrote:
Dec 29 2021 7:05pm
The Hybrid ( Prius, Lexus, etc) practically halved fuel use in those vehicles by combining ICE with EV tech whilst avoiding large , heavy, expensive batteries , recharging concerns,and, range limitations of full BEVs.
Yep. And PHEV's do that to an even greater degree. Small batteries and hundreds of (effective) miles per gallon. Those will be a good stopgap for the next ten years or so.
If emissions were a real concern, authorities could have encouraged the use of LPG or CNG in ICEs
?? They did. Around here most buses and garbage trucks are CNG, and there are a dozen or so CNG stations to support people who buy CNG cars.
There is also the very real potential for using Hydrogen to fuel heavy (diesel) powered vehicles
That would be a great solution if we had any hydrogen.
I am all for EV technology when the costs are realistic but despite all the media hype, the reality is there will be ICE vehicles around for many years yet....long past our lifetimes...
And far beyond that. I mean, there are still horses.
And it is not just a battery cost or energy density issue,...it is a whole new battery technology that is needed to be viable.
Nope. The batteries we have right now work just fine. Sure, we could make them cheaper and figure out better reuse/recycling systems for them. But we don't need any new advances.

Keep in mind that Tesla is transitioning to LFP from lithium-ion because LFP has advanced to the point where they are viable alternatives. So now we have two options that work well for EV's.
Just as there is a finite supply of oil, so is there a finite resource of many of the materials required to produce current tech batteries and electric machines .
Yep. Big difference is - once you burn oil it's gone. You can reuse battery materials indefinitely.

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1209
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by calab » Dec 29 2021 11:04pm

luke started a lithium recycling program viewtopic.php?f=14&t=111061&p=1628014&h ... g#p1628014
You can reuse battery materials indefinitely.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 29 2021 11:31pm

. You can reuse battery materials indefinitely......
Yet to be developed commercially,...and at what cost to the “recycled” battery.
We have hardly scratched the surface on potential battery requirements, and already there have been concerns over the resources required. Whilst the Battery demand continues to increase, so will the demand for raw materials to make them.
If we ever get near a full EV fleet , ..let alone all those Utility scale Batteries...that will be several thousand times the current material requirements IN USE, before you can even consider recycling volumes.
So no, i do not think there is enough Lithium, Nickel, Cobalt, etc ..or even Copper,..to satisfy a universal Electrification program.
There are many things we “could” reclaim and recycle , but it is not done because of the costs, energy, and resources required to do so. Glass bottles, plastics, tyres, etc are typical.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 29 2021 11:54pm

.?? ...Around here most buses and garbage trucks are CNG, and there are a dozen or so CNG stations to support people who buy CNG cars.
We (Australia) used to have similar fleets of LPG fueled busses and most taxis, even some model cars could be bought as “Dual Fuel” ( petrol/LPG) and subsidies were available for anyone who wanted an aftermarket LPG conversion on an existing vehicle. Most Service stations has an LPG pump.
BUT..Authorities started trade deals with foreign nations for liquid gas exports and pushed the cost of LPG up, such that it was no longer an economic fuel option compared to petrol or diesel,..so the Taxis all went to petrol hybrid , and the busses we shamed into being replaced with EV versions,..or back to diesel !
And Service stations have been removing LPG pumps due to lack of demand !
Oh, and CNG, ...our brilliant leaders decided it should not be permitted for domestic consumption ??
( despite the fact that we practically float on natural reserviours of the stuff.)
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 30 2021 12:08am

.
There is also the very real potential for using Hydrogen to fuel heavy (diesel) powered vehicles
That would be a great solution if we had any hydrogen.
There is plenty of hydrogen, and we have the technologies to produce it various ways.
The problem is still H2 storage and distribution in volume
I know many companies have tried and failed to develop a H2 fueled ICE, but others believe it is practical and hence avoid the complication of fuel cells batteries, motors, etc..just an adaptation of proven technology with near zero emissions.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1209
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by calab » Dec 30 2021 2:29am

New light duty vehicles will be required to convert in a few decades time natural gas used to be a waste by product and still is when it cant be easily transported and burnt off. If the car companies going the way of the Tesla model of buyer not being able to fix their own vehicles will have problems.

This guy got what he wanted with 1.000.000 views I suspect it was parted out then blown up the batteries alone are worth lots motor actuators ecu's why lose money aiming for viral video.

User avatar
jonescg   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4010
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by jonescg » Dec 31 2021 12:56am

Hillhater wrote:
Dec 29 2021 11:31pm
. You can reuse battery materials indefinitely......
Yet to be developed commercially,...and at what cost to the “recycled” battery.
We have hardly scratched the surface on potential battery requirements, and already there have been concerns over the resources required. Whilst the Battery demand continues to increase, so will the demand for raw materials to make them.
If we ever get near a full EV fleet , ..let alone all those Utility scale Batteries...that will be several thousand times the current material requirements IN USE, before you can even consider recycling volumes.
So no, i do not think there is enough Lithium, Nickel, Cobalt, etc ..or even Copper,..to satisfy a universal Electrification program.
There are many things we “could” reclaim and recycle , but it is not done because of the costs, energy, and resources required to do so. Glass bottles, plastics, tyres, etc are typical.
So, I've been recycling LiPo cells in my shed. I'm recovering 99% pure cobalt sulfate which is used by the Future Battery Industries CRC to manufacture advanced cathodes and assess their potential.
https://fbicrc.com.au/
My acid leach process is here:
https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=88057#p88057

25 kg of H2SO4 costs $56. That's enough to process about 15 kg of cathode, yielding about 10 kg of cobalt sulphate, currently fetching a price of about $50 a kg. I can do it in a day with some very basic equipment (especially safety glasses and gloves!). The CoSO4 is used to make hydroxides which are calcined and used to make new cathode material.

It's not about energy, because recycling always takes more energy. It's about limiting the amount of stuff we need to dig out of the ground. And if a bloke like me can do it in the shed, what's industry's excuse? There's 1.4 billion vehicles in the world, and we need halve this number. With the remaining vehicles powered by electricity. With resource recovery as a priority, we can minimise the amount of mining we'll still need to do to close the loop.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16343
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by neptronix » Dec 31 2021 8:58am

JackFlorey wrote:
Dec 29 2021 11:00pm
Nope. The batteries we have right now work just fine. Sure, we could make them cheaper and figure out better reuse/recycling systems for them. But we don't need any new advances.
I agreed with everything you said except this.
We need batteries that are denser, don't-self ignite during a number of failure conditions yesterday.

EV marketshare across the world is still in the low single digit percentages because the upfront cost of an EV is still very high, despite large tax subsidies to producers and also tax subsidies for consumers.

There are other limitations to ownership. Of the entire populace who lives in dense housing, there's generally no charging spot for them, and they rely on the local gas station. There's no functional equivalent of an EV gas station... except maybe a few Tesla supercharger stations here and there.

Long distance roadtrips are still a problem for most EV owners due to range and charging station availability.

In the next couple years, we'll start seeing all these factors improved on, and EV ownership will gradually become possible for more people as a result.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

JackFlorey   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1307
Joined: Feb 19 2020 7:22pm

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Dec 31 2021 2:19pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 31 2021 8:58am
I agreed with everything you said except this.
We need batteries that are denser, don't-self ignite during a number of failure conditions yesterday.
Those would indeed be nice - and are being worked on.

But currently, EV's catch on fire less often than gas-powered cars do. And EV ranges go up to 450 miles, which is more than enough to be competitive with gas cars. 12 currently available EV's have ranges >300 miles, which again is competitive. Tesla battery packs have lasted 300,000 miles without going below 70% capacity.

I absolutely agree that we need to keep improving batteries, specifically reusability, recyclability, energy density, cost, safety and lifetime. And fortunately all that is happening. But keep in mind that Tesla batteries now give such good ranges that Tesla is switching to LFP batteries on its cheaper cars to get the cost down; a range of "only" 280 miles is still pretty good. And you can get a Leaf for $28K.

We have hit a very important threshold - EV's now work about as well as gas cars. Improving the technology will make them considerably better than gas cars, and that will be the death knell of the gas powered car as the "standard" means of personal transport.

Addy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 287
Joined: Aug 11 2017 11:15am
Location: BC, Canada

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Addy » Dec 31 2021 3:22pm

Lithium battery recycling is being doing commercially already:


JackFlorey   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1307
Joined: Feb 19 2020 7:22pm

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Dec 31 2021 4:01pm

Addy wrote:
Dec 31 2021 3:22pm
Lithium battery recycling is being doing commercially already:
Yep. Last AABC I was at had three different companies doing end to end recycling of EV batteries. It's out there; there's just no incentive to do it now.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Dec 31 2021 6:42pm

No matter how effective or practical recycling batteries currently is, it does not help with the sheer total volume of materials required to satisfy the future potential demand for battery applications...not just vehicles, but utility storage, domestic storage etc. Recycling can only ever be a drop in the supply ocean.
And If we ever get those high volumes of seriously low cost batteries available , then that will make the economics of recycling even more difficult, because the raw materials will also be cheaper.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16343
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by neptronix » Jan 02 2022 2:39pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Dec 31 2021 2:19pm
But currently, EV's catch on fire less often than gas-powered cars do. And EV ranges go up to 450 miles, which is more than enough to be competitive with gas cars. 12 currently available EV's have ranges >300 miles, which again is competitive. Tesla battery packs have lasted 300,000 miles without going below 70% capacity.
Ya, but when they burn, they really burn. I've seen low quality cells burn.. high quality cells.. all burning up roughly the same.
So cell quality isn't really the problem.
Look at Tesla's engineering, they've gone to the max on what you can do to improve safety and their cars still burn up sitting still - no previous crash or good reason why it burned.

Gas cars blowing up is usually due to a catastrophic defect that has a fix, or a MAJOR crash. Whereas as best as we can get with batteries is crossing our finger that 1 on out those 100,000 battery cells isn't likely to develop a short and melt the entire car.

Statistically speaking, electric cars do burn themselves down at a lower rate, but do so for much more difficult to solve reasons, and that sucks.
JackFlorey wrote:
Dec 31 2021 2:19pm
But keep in mind that Tesla batteries now give such good ranges that Tesla is switching to LFP batteries on its cheaper cars to get the cost down; a range of "only" 280 miles is still pretty good. And you can get a Leaf for $28K.
LFP is nice because it tends to smoke instead of flame, but the density of those batteries.. ugh. Electric cars are already 1000lbs heavier than their gas predecessors. That's an attribute of electric cars that bugs me most. ( My ideal car is more along the lines of a Miata )
JackFlorey wrote:
Dec 31 2021 2:19pm
We have hit a very important threshold - EV's now work about as well as gas cars. Improving the technology will make them considerably better than gas cars, and that will be the death knell of the gas powered car as the "standard" means of personal transport.
I totally agree with that.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10413
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Chalo » Jan 02 2022 3:38pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 02 2022 2:39pm
Gas cars blowing up is usually due to a catastrophic defect that has a fix, or a MAJOR crash.
Or a minor fuel system leak, or a gradual deterioration of high power electrical wiring.

Old Mercedes diesels are known for burning down in parking lots when they're not doing anything.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

JackFlorey   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1307
Joined: Feb 19 2020 7:22pm

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 03 2022 12:13am

neptronix wrote:
Jan 02 2022 2:39pm
Ya, but when they burn, they really burn.
So do gas cars. 16 gallons of gas has a tremendous amount of chemical energy. My college roommate lost his first car to a fire, and there was almost nothing left other than the frame. Even the tires were gone.
Statistically speaking, electric cars do burn themselves down at a lower rate, but do so for much more difficult to solve reasons, and that sucks.
They are already considerably safer (as you mentioned) - and while several companies have put some efforts into fire suppression, the entire field of study is still in its infancy. At AABC, no fewer than 20 talks were on fire avoidance/suppression/mitigation. There is a lot going on, and there is no doubt that they will become safer over time.

But meanwhile, 3.4% of all gas cars sold will end up on fire at some point in their life. .025% of EVs will, even with today's technology. So if avoidance of fire is your goal, EVs are the way to go.

https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs- ... car-fires/
LFP is nice because it tends to smoke instead of flame, but the density of those batteries.. ugh. Electric cars are already 1000lbs heavier than their gas predecessors.
Oh, agreed. But as battery technology moves on, "cheaper" batteries become usable for cheaper cars. LFP energy density will continue to increase, just as li-ion density has.

User avatar
Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2722
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Ianhill » Jan 03 2022 3:12pm

Meanwhile a hyundai i30n with a hybrid turbo terrorise the local roads poping and banging away with antilag like its on a rally stage.
My phone must of heard me mention about it next thing I'm been advertised the cars specs on youtube carwow video, coincidence i dont think so the vids 2 years old and i dont watch his channel.
How far does the modern company go to target its audience not far enough as Zuckerberg see's it.

Most country's dont even need to electrify the car to cut emissions enough to save a disaster, rail networks have been under utilised to allow a freeway/highway/motorway revolution most cars are not needed.

Fast food deliverys by bike is stupid munched up box of food for the lazy, cook from home save carbon in the tons over a year just basic thought process instead lazy ways allowing companys to thrives thats not vitally needed its the human lazyness thats the problem no matter the energy source or choice of ride people are increasingly adding to the problem not caring for a real solution bit to carry on living blind pay for a tree etc to cover shit all.
Infinite hrspwrs.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Jan 03 2022 5:28pm

.
....Most country's dont even need to electrify the car to cut emissions enough to save a disaster, rail networks have been under utilised to allow a freeway/highway/motorway revolution most cars are not needed.
That is idealistic thinking,..and ignoring reality.
Whilst humanity survived for thousands of years before cars were available, it is established fact that like the the introduction of the wheel, powered personal transport has pushed human societies to new levels of prosperity.
Sure there are many cars that are just “2nd use”. Or spares that could be eliminated at minimal inconvenience, but modern societies are based on communication and transportation and cannot function effectively without personal transport.
Outside cities and main residential areas, few people have realistic access to trains/ trams/subways/ or even busses !
Anyone who uses those public transport systems will tell you how undercapacity they are at critical times.
Then there are those millions who cannot access public transport locally and rely on private cars to function.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10413
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Chalo » Jan 03 2022 6:19pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 03 2022 5:28pm
Whilst humanity survived for thousands of years before cars were available, it is established fact that like the the introduction of the wheel, powered personal transport has pushed human societies to new levels of prosperity estrangement, futility, wastefulness, and pollution.
Fixed that for you.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Jan 03 2022 10:02pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 03 2022 6:19pm
Hillhater wrote:
Jan 03 2022 5:28pm
Whilst humanity survived for thousands of years before cars were available, it is established fact that like the the introduction of the wheel, powered personal transport has pushed human societies to new levels of prosperity estrangement, futility, wastefulness, and pollution.
Fixed that for you.
Only in your mind....not in the real world .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Post Reply