Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

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JackFlorey   100 kW

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Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 03 2022 11:49pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 03 2022 5:28pm
Whilst humanity survived for thousands of years before cars were available, it is established fact that like the the introduction of the wheel, powered personal transport has pushed human societies to new levels of prosperity.
That's silly. The only thing that cars have enabled people to do that has anything to do with prosperity is commute. And clearly, examples like Tokyo, Moscow, Shanghai, Seoul and New York demonstrate that you don't need a car to commute. All those cities have more than half of their commuters using mass transit.
Sure there are many cars that are just “2nd use”. Or spares that could be eliminated at minimal inconvenience, but modern societies are based on communication and transportation and cannot function effectively without personal transport.
So Tokyo, New York and Moscow do not function effectively?

Have you ever been to any of them?

People like having their own cars. That's why they are such successful consumer products. Like TV's. It would be just as absurd to claim that TV's have "pushed human society to a new level of prosperity." That's not why we have them. We have them because we like them.

Don't believe me? Watch any commercial for a car. It shows them driving alone on empty roads, or going to a show with a glamorous girlfriend, or (for SUV's and trucks) driving along a dirt road far in the mountains. Exactly zero show people commuting. Because that's not why people want cars - they want the car that makes them rugged mountain men, or glamorous cosmopolitans, or adventurous thrillseekers. That's what sells. Their use as a commuting vehicle is a necessary evil to most people.

If we didn't have cars, our cities would look a lot different. You'd have much less urban sprawl and far more dense residential communities centered near transit. In fact, they would look a lot like, say, the areas around New York or Moscow. That would be good and bad - but would hardly be the end of prosperity as we know it.

If you want a real example, look at freight. The ability to rapidly ship freight via trucks/ships/planes absolutely has contributed a great deal to our prosperity - and things like grain, ore and ammonia shipment has a LOT more to do with that than your Amazon delivery truck.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Jan 04 2022 10:00pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Jan 03 2022 11:49pm
And clearly, examples like Tokyo, Moscow, Shanghai, Seoul and New York demonstrate that you don't need a car to commute. All those cities have more than half of their commuters using mass transit.
So Tokyo, New York and Moscow do not function effectively?
Of course they function effectively,....but how do you think the other half of their commuters are travelling ?
Many commuters do not have practical access to public transit ( train, bus, metro etc) without using a car to get to the nearest transit station. The “Park and Ride” system used by many.
I have never been to Moscow, but i have plenty of experience of NY , Tokyo, London, Paris, LA, etc,. And have experienced the limitations of ALL of their mass transit systems. Without Taxis, Uber, Hire cars, Go Get, etc etc, there would be chaos.
And of course, MOST of the worlds industry etc, is not located in City centers, and frequently far away from mass transit access. Much of modern society has been built around the availability of personal transport.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

JackFlorey   100 kW

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Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by JackFlorey » Jan 04 2022 10:24pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 04 2022 10:00pm
Of course they function effectively,....but how do you think the other half of their commuters are travelling ?
?? It's not half. In Japan - countrywide - less than a quarter of the people drive to work. In New York it's less than 40%.
I have never been to Moscow, but i have plenty of experience of NY , Tokyo, London, Paris, LA, etc,. And have experienced the limitations of ALL of their mass transit systems.
Yep, me too. And of all the ways I have commuted, I have wasted far more time due to the limitations of driving (i.e. traffic jams, parking) than due to delays on mass transit.
And of course, MOST of the worlds industry etc, is not located in City centers, and frequently far away from mass transit access.
And yet in Japan - one of the most industrialized nations on Earth - less than a quarter of the people drive.

It is absolutely doable. We just don't want to.

But this is all getting away from the topic, which is Hyundai's efforts at electrification. We will see more and more car companies doing this as more people switch to EV's. The smart companies are getting ahead of the trend.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Hyundai shutting down internal combustion engineering department to make EV motors

Post by Hillhater » Jan 05 2022 8:18am

JackFlorey wrote:
Jan 04 2022 10:24pm
In Japan - countrywide - less than a quarter of the people drive to work. In New York it's less than 40%......
......
And yet in Japan - one of the most industrialized nations on Earth - less than a quarter of the people drive.
...
But it not just work commuting is it ?
There is all those school runs....shopping trips, ..trips to the hairdressers, golf clubs, ball games, etc, etc..
..and that is before we get to vacations.
I dont know how you figure less than a quarter of Japanese drive, when they have over 80 million cars between a total population of 125 million ? ...
....excluding the under age (18) , and the over 80s,.. there would be practically one vehicle for every adult !
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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