"Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

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ebuilder   10 kW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 11:46am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:43am
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:23am
many believe its already started to happen...the earth will become less habitable and humans will need to create their own eco system to survive elsewhere. That will take more people and not less.
We don’t just believe it’s becoming less live-able here on earth, we know it is, and we know why. Opting to move to mars instead of making it livable here.. that’s why we have government n laws to help protect those of us who aren’t into that abomination of a strategy.
How can we discuss this if I don't know you are the problem. Where do you live? Is your education science based or did you study photography in college? Then we can throw up a pie chart to show who the polluters are on the planet. You maybe the problem and if so, we need to discuss why your government isn't more responsible..lol.
Also, your preoccupation with losing 2.2 years off every human's lifespan is laughable. Human's live on average almost 50% longer than well before the industrial revolution.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 11:55am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:43am
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:23am
many believe its already started to happen...the earth will become less habitable and humans will need to create their own eco system to survive elsewhere. That will take more people and not less.
We don’t just believe it’s becoming less live-able here on earth, we know it is, and we know why. Opting to move to mars instead of making it livable here.. that’s why we have government n laws to help protect those of us who aren’t into that abomination of a strategy. It’s the non-strategy. It’s the run-away. There’s no math needed there and it results in 0 for earth. That’s the math I’m looking to see: how well does life on earth do?
Is the planet not a perishable good?...just like the elements in a battery it is composed of?
I know, a philosophical question way above your pay grade, but you may have some thoughts on it.
Human's maybe able to slow or even alter the natural order of the planet but inhabiting the planet may in fact accelerate the death of the planet. I know you aren't happy with the timeline but pretty unclear that small tweaks with windmills and solar panels will bend the arc of planet wellness any appreciable amount. There maybe breakthroughs, however. Generally, necessity is the mother of invention.

Sometimes its helpful for those who look through a very narrow lens to step back and take in a broader view.
Climate change is a fascinating subject and relatable to my education. There is still debate for example on what caused the ice age and of course the continental land drift theory. How the earth evolved before human intervention. Nobody is smart enough to know if the carbon footprint created by man has inexorably altered the true predictor of climate on planet earth. There are also theory's on how the atmosphere on Mars can be made more habitable by humans which may be realized 1000 years from now if civilization doesn't annihilate itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyZNYdZynb0
Last edited by ebuilder on Sep 03 2022 12:11pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Chalo » Sep 03 2022 12:03pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:23am
Chalo wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:16am
Elon Musk also thinks it's important to keep growing the population, so his credibility is less than zero on issues of sustainability.
Your parochial view I am afraid. I side with Musk's genius.
I believe Musk believes in his heart of heart that humanity aka our civilization will only survive by colonizing to other planets.
Thing is, he thinks it's okay to ruin the only place we know we can live in the process. And we're not the only ones who live here.

We don't have to survive indefinitely, and we probably shouldn't, if we can't bring ourselves to live in balance with our home world.

Musk's "genius" is in hyping stock sales. His tech ideas are like a teenage nerd's. And he doesn't have the chops to carry out any of them himself.
Is the planet not a perishable good?
No, our planet is a self-correcting system, at least until we break it badly enough that it can't self-correct anymore. I think we shouldn't.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 12:14pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 03 2022 12:03pm
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:23am
Chalo wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:16am
Elon Musk also thinks it's important to keep growing the population, so his credibility is less than zero on issues of sustainability.
Your parochial view I am afraid. I side with Musk's genius.
I believe Musk believes in his heart of heart that humanity aka our civilization will only survive by colonizing to other planets.
Thing is, he thinks it's okay to ruin the only place we know we can live in the process. And we're not the only ones who live here.

We don't have to survive indefinitely, and we probably shouldn't, if we can't bring ourselves to live in balance with our home world.

Musk's "genius" is in hyping stock sales. His tech ideas are like a teenage nerd's. And he doesn't have the chops to carry out any of them himself.
Is the planet not a perishable good?
No, our planet is a self-correcting system, at least until we break it badly enough that it can't self-correct anymore. I think we shouldn't.
How quaint for you to demonize the predominate electric car manufacturer and believe deludedly Elon wants to promote destruction of Earth. How obtuse...lol.
"Living in balance with your home". When you defecate. Why don't you hold onto it? You would rather send it somewhere else for others to contend with it.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Chalo » Sep 03 2022 12:33pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 12:14pm
How quaint for you to demonize the predominate electric car manufacturer and believe deludedly Elon wants to promote destruction of Earth.
Grossly overweight and overpowered personal cars, whatever power source they run on, are a problem that must end unless the goal is to kill us all. An actual genius would understand and acknowledge this.

Musk would rather compound the problem with millions of tons more greenhouse gas, just so he can lay claim to an unlivable planet. If this nonsense weren't poisoning, roasting, and flooding the rest of us out of our homes, I'd say go for it.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 1:03pm

I think you deny the concept of a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Do you believe Elon Musk's car company would survive by offering performance inferior to that of gasoline automobiles?
Elon isn't the government. While I agree our planet's vehicles are grossly overweight and overpowered due to greed and wealth and relatable to carbon emissions, Elon could not survive with the existing landscape of legislation by putting out all model vehicles with the performance level of a Prius. Possible he will have a hand in making it less cost effective and desirable to own high power vehicles over time. Rome wasn't built in a day. Not participating isn't really a viable option just like you Chalo have not made much of an impact on your neighbor's not driving gas hungry SUV's even though you live nearby. Part of the world gets it out of necessity. They are poor and have no choice. In Europe, not only is e-bike power and speed more stringently regulated but Europe also heavily taxes ICE engines by displacement and also discourages large power to weight vehicles by high petroleum costs.
Agree that America is culpable and irresponsible in this respect.
To me, you are being hyperbolic by saying Elon is part of the problem. He is actually part of the solution. You just don't see it.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 1:48pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 03 2022 12:33pm

Grossly overweight and overpowered personal cars, whatever power source they run on, are a problem that must end unless the goal is to kill us all. An actual genius would understand and acknowledge this.

Musk would rather compound the problem with millions of tons more greenhouse gas, just so he can lay claim to an unlivable planet. If this nonsense weren't poisoning, roasting, and flooding the rest of us out of our homes, I'd say go for it.
Digging a bit deeper, I would like to take your temperature on this Chalo because this is an interesting discussion which comes down to philosophy and perspective and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You seem to have a real conservation side 'to save the planet'. Every human should conserve. Do people really need to own cars Chalo? Humanity largely predates automobiles which started to become part of America and the world's fabric around the turn of the last century. Perhaps households shouldn't be allowed to own an automobile for the sake of the planet.
Or more topically, in the vane of ebikes...Chalo if you were in charge of the world's population, should the BBSHD ebike motor be illegal? Afterall for an average weight male on an average weight bicycle, who really needs to go 35mph? I own two but rarely go that fast. Have you ever sat down and done a cost/benefit analysis of owning a BBSHD versus a much weaker motor? How about if you ride both bikes with the same volts and amps? How much longer will a BBSHD last compared to a weaker motor that is at a higher stress and heat threshold? How irresponsible is it to replace a motor an an ebike 3 x's for every BBSHD failure because latter is so over designed. Bad for the planet isn't it?...to recycle so many motors. How about a Tesla 3 series? Let's say it will outlast a Chevy Bolt 2:1 because of the quality of the battery and the motor. Both are driven on the same roads. The Tesla may use a little more juice but really how much more? You have to buy a Chevy Bolt twice as often as a Tesla. Pretty irresponsible, isn't it?...buying the cheaper car with weaker motor. A false economy and in the grand scheme of the planet's well being, pixie dust is a good characterization although in aggregate the smaller, lower power Chevy Bolt maybe more harmful to the planet because it doesn't last and needs to be part of a landfill sooner. Once again, poor people messing things up for the planet. Everybody should be able to buy a Tesla right? Oh that's right, Telsa's are cost prohibitive for most and genius Elon knows that. Numbers matter for impact on the planet.

Do I need a 52v battery with 19.2 amp-hrs that I 'undercharge' for longer cycle life in an effort to keep my battery from a landfill later rather than sooner? How about if I owned 10 ebikes and only ride one at a time? Should the government limit how many ebikes I own to save the planet even though I try to ride my ebike instead of my SUV?

Broad extrapolations are misguided and foolhardy. How grandiose to believe human's have any concept of global warming in the face of the ice age which we still can't explain.

Maybe ebikes should be limted to 100w's of supplemental power and not 1000w to save the planet you care so deeply about.

So if you were in charge Chalo, would you deem the BBSHD illegal? Would you deem higher voltage, larger capacity batteries illegal? They are after antithetical to survival of the planet are they not?...grievous, glutenous polluting and under utilized.

Or how about your rich grandmother who likes to tote her grandkids around in a safe automobile. She has heard you exclaim the merits of EV's at dinner table discussions and she wants to drink the Kool-aid to save the planet too even though this concept has really come under some skepticism within this thread and elsewhere. How about Grandma? How polluting is Grandma driving your demonic Tesla when she barely grazes the gas pedal to go the speed limit? Her Watt-hrs aren't really out of line, are they? Grandma's battery lasts for weeks. That big bad Tesla isn't really so bad is it? Grandma likes it.

You are in charge Chalo. You have made your thoughts known about carbon footprint and the irresponsibility of Musk. Grandma likes the occasional romp on the go pedal. But normally, she drives like the little old lady she is. Tell us what you would do.
Last edited by ebuilder on Sep 03 2022 2:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 2:24pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:55am
Climate change is a fascinating subject and relatable to my education. There is still debate for example on what caused the ice age and of course the continental land drift theory. How the earth evolved before human intervention. Nobody is smart enough to know if the carbon footprint created by man has inexorably altered the true predictor of climate on planet earth.
We are smart enough. We know we are altering the atmosphere content and it is causing global warming. We see the results. Whether it is now to the point of being inexorable is up for debate and there’s thought to be a tipping point. I’m not comfortable playing id it inexorable or not with such things.
We spend more money now.. or we pay later big time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping ... ate_system

As far as my own education it’s good enough that I know when I don’t know and who to defer to that does.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus.amp
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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 2:33pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 2:24pm
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 11:55am
Climate change is a fascinating subject and relatable to my education. There is still debate for example on what caused the ice age and of course the continental land drift theory. How the earth evolved before human intervention. Nobody is smart enough to know if the carbon footprint created by man has inexorably altered the true predictor of climate on planet earth.
We are smart enough. We know we are altering the atmosphere content and it is causing global warming. We see the results. Whether it is now to the point of being inexorable is up for debate and there’s thought to be a tipping point. I’m not comfortable playing id it inexorable or not with such things.
We spend more money now.. or we pay later big time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping ... ate_system
It will cost you bro because you have the money to spend, so yes you need to spend more now....even though you don't live on the planet. Other's can't afford your boondoggle. They can't afford to put food on the table. They are more worried about starving their kids than warming up a degree. Solar panels and windmills won't bend the arc of climatic shift due to C02 emission. Until you can explain the ice age which was a 20 degree cooling off of the planet, you won't convince anybody that windmills and solar panels and batteries that end up in land fills will change the world's climate by 1 degree....but yes you need a $1 million house covered in solar panels and 1 windmill in your front yard. Remember, no car. They polute. Maybe an ebike but keep the power low. Check with Chalo for acceptable power level...lol.
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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 2:36pm

Calling efforts to combat climate change with solar power, evs, and batteries a boondoggle leaves us at opposite ends of reality.

As far as those starving people who are too worried about putting food on the table, they should’ve been helped long ago. That’s not hard. That’s another reason I like socialism as it enables us to pull up the weakest of the world and allow them to get on-board with bigger problems. If every environmental problem were ignored because it would cost money to fix or there’s someone somewhere who can’t do it because they’re starving we wouldn’t get anywhere. I’m happy to add another 50% tax on the world’s billionaires to solve the problem of those who can’t put food on their table. They earned it. And then can move on to the bigger world problems.
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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 2:37pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 2:36pm
Calling efforts to combat climate change with solar power, evs, and batteries a boondoggle leaves us at opposite ends of reality.
We are anyway. You didn't go to school and don't live on the planet. No idea Musk had a secret mission to Mars but congrats on beaming in.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 2:46pm

why u think I didn’t know musk was planning to go to mars I don’t know and I said nothing of the sort


Why u keep insisting I’m not educated enough I don’t understand. Post something beyond my abilities to understand right here. Im not interested in ur almost-rocket science degree. We aren’t talking about rocket science. And you’re not interested in me showing how I’m 2 points from Mensa on my miller analogy test. Or are u?
Lately u say I’m not even on the planet, yet you say you want to debate the interesting subject. That’s not doing it.
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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Chalo » Sep 03 2022 2:52pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 1:48pm
How about Grandma? How polluting is Grandma driving your demonic Tesla when she barely grazes the gas pedal to go the speed limit? Her Watt-hrs aren't really out of line, are they? Grandma's battery lasts for weeks. That big bad Tesla isn't really so bad is it? Grandma likes it.
If Granny drives a 1000 pound Tesla, then she and four other grannies can also drive Teslas for the same sunk resources as one of today's Teslas. And if it has enough power to go legal speeds but not more than that, we can diminish the sunk resources even further, or serve even more grannies without laying waste to more land, air, water.

BBSHD has lower impact than growing the food required to make muscle power, so no problem there (unless we have way too many people and thus way too many BBSHDs).

I think rationing energy and materials on an individual basis, while letting people decide how they want to spend their allotment, would be one way of stewarding resources in the interest of people who come along later. But much easier and more practicable would be to cut our population by 25% per generation until we have maybe 10% of today's numbers. All the while, people's resource rations could increase proportionally, at no extra burden on our biosphere.

The way we live now is condemning everyone yet to come to live a worse life than we enjoy now, when we ourselves could easily have a much better quality of life with a lot less consumption, pollution, and resource depletion. If we prioritize real quality of life instead of economic activity (which isn't even close to the same thing), we could probably reduce our consumption by one order of magnitude. Then if we go on to reduce world population by one order of magnitude, we'd probably be sustainable in the long term.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 3:05pm

Chalo wrote:
Sep 03 2022 2:52pm
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 1:48pm
How about Grandma? How polluting is Grandma driving your demonic Tesla when she barely grazes the gas pedal to go the speed limit? Her Watt-hrs aren't really out of line, are they? Grandma's battery lasts for weeks. That big bad Tesla isn't really so bad is it? Grandma likes it.
If Granny drives a 1000 pound Tesla, then she and four other grannies can also drive Teslas for the same sunk resources as one of today's Teslas. And if it has enough power to go legal speeds but not more than that, we can diminish the sunk resources even further, or serve even more grannies without laying waste to more land, air, water.

BBSHD has lower impact than growing the food required to make muscle power, so no problem there (unless we have way too many people and thus way too many BBSHDs).

I think rationing energy and materials on an individual basis, while letting people decide how they want to spend their allotment, would be one way of stewarding resources in the interest of people who come along later. But much easier and more practicable would be to cut our population by 25% per generation until we have maybe 10% of today's numbers. All the while, people's resource rations could increase proportionally, at no extra burden on our biosphere.

The way we live now is condemning everyone yet to come to live a worse life than we enjoy now, when we ourselves could easily have a much better quality of life with a lot less consumption, pollution, and resource depletion. If we prioritize real quality of life instead of economic activity (which isn't even close to the same thing), we could probably reduce our consumption by one order of magnitude. Then if we go on to reduce world population by one order of magnitude, we'd probably be sustainable in the long term.
Chalo's view of utopia. Many problems with it.
First, you probably don't know about FMVSS...HIC etc, but Grandma wouldn't survive in her 1000 lb Tesla in a hard frontal or side impact crash. There goes Grandma and we all love Grandma.
Also...and a bit surprising you equated vehicle weight with resource allocation. Not even close, 5 Grannies to one. Maybe 2, 3 tops due to vehicle system redundancy. Weight is more nebulous in this equation.
But Granny dies anyway in a crash and we don't want that. That is why smart people drive heavier vehicles because survivability is much higher but now that I think about it, you are in favor of population reduction. I know, other's people's families, not yours. Pro tip. Don't let Grandma drive a 1000 lb vehicle unless you stand to get a big inheritance from her.

China has practiced population control. Sounds like you are a fan. I guess it matters where you live. If America had the population of Arkansas, I wonder what the world would like? We would hardly have much sway in the world. Maybe Chinese is your preferred language. Not mine. Btw, I am not hating on China. Works for them. Personal choice. Germain to conversation however...China does pollute a lot more than America.
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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 3:17pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 2:36pm
Calling efforts to combat climate change with solar power, evs, and batteries a boondoggle leaves us at opposite ends of reality.

As far as those starving people who are too worried about putting food on the table, they should’ve been helped long ago. That’s not hard. That’s another reason I like socialism as it enables us to pull up the weakest of the world and allow them to get on-board with bigger problems. If every environmental problem were ignored because it would cost money to fix or there’s someone somewhere who can’t do it because they’re starving we wouldn’t get anywhere. I’m happy to add another 50% tax on the world’s billionaires to solve the problem of those who can’t put food on their table. They earned it. And then can move on to the bigger world problems.
Socialism is a failed experiment. Not shocked you embrace it. There is a reason why America has a hard time keeping people who want to live here from penetrating our border. Its better in America with all our warts.
The predicate for Capitalism is Darwinism. Survival of the fitness. People aren't equal. If you went to college you probably met people smarter than you...or at least people that graduated higher in your class. People aren't the same. They shouldn't be rewarded the same for different performance. Michael Jordan should be paid more than a a run of mill basketball player. If this doesn't occur, then Michael's motivation isn't the same to excel. There is a reason why there are no Elon Musk's, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates etc in China. Their culture discourages exceptionalism even though people aren't the same there either. That is why they steal our intellectual property and we don't steal theirs.

If you decide to live in a cardboard box versus choose to live in a mansion covered in solar panels with a windmill out in front, you are being more environmentally conscious. People don't like to live in a cardboard box.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 3:26pm

America is a hybrid of socialism and capitalism as pretty much everywhere is. The idea that socialism is a failure is a simplistic lie. All those places u want to call a socialistic failure were dictatorships or something else. What examples of socialism’s failure do u have? Or we could talk about some northern eu countries that are more socialistic and shown to generally have a better standard of living for its citizens. The only place I think of when I think of pure capitalism is India. U can starve to death and the government will let u.

When the spectrum of income wasn’t near the extremes it is now, were we less competitive or something? I thought the american tax structure under Eisenhower was pretty great. They weren’t saying it was unamerican or socialism then. That fear surfaced later, then it was batted down, and then the fear was reformed by the right wing and it’s meme feed all over now.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16782/hi ... tax-rates/

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 3:38pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 3:26pm
America is a hybrid of socialism and capitalism as pretty much everywhere is. The idea that socialism is a failure is a simplistic lie. All those places u want to call a socialistic failure were dictatorships or something else. What examples of socialism’s failure do u have? Or we could talk about some northern eu countries that are more socialistic and shown to generally have a better standard of living for its citizens. The only place I think of when I think of pure capitalism is India. U can starve to death and the government will let u.

When the spectrum of income wasn’t near the extremes it is now, were we less competitive or something? I thought the america tax structure under Eisenhower was pretty great. They weren’t saying it was unamerican or socialism then.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16782/hi ... tax-rates/
All Capitalistic societies have to have a socialistic element to support the underclass that falls through the cracks.
In fact, this lowest common denominator has been a big problem for America. But, given that big problem, America is the land of opportunity. You got the goods, you can really succeed unlike other cultures. If you don't have the goods, then yes, your existence in America will be rather unremarkable or even less.
To me, its basic logic. Human's aren't the same in performance across many fields. Pavlov's dog. Creme rises to the top. Discourage that boldness, that talent and society falls to its lowest common denominator. Some believe its part of the problem in American society. Your way of thinking. Everybody gets a trophy. Not how life works all the way back to the time of cave men. The biggest cave men fought for the most desirable women in the village and bred with them for the finest genes. Its our instinct. In the animal kingdom, there is always an alpha dog who gets the biggest prize.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by nicobie » Sep 03 2022 4:52pm

In my opinion Chalo wins this debate. And it's not because of his superior intellect or what he says here. He wins because of his life choice of not having any kids. We can argue about this until hell freezes over and it won't change the fact that if you put too many rats in a cage they will start eating each other.

It will be the smarter ones that figure this out first which will lead to the dumbing down of the population, which is never good for a species survival. This is already happening. Just look at who is getting elected these days...

The tree huggers don't have the answer, all they are currently doing is delaying the inevitable. The only correct answer is less people. Our replacement rate needs to be less than one to one to have even a chance for Homo S. to make it through this planetary crisis.
Ask for it by name.

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 5:23pm

nicobie wrote:
Sep 03 2022 4:52pm
In my opinion Chalo wins this debate. And it's not because of his superior intellect or what he says here. He wins because of his life choice of not having any kids. We can argue about this until hell freezes over and it won't change the fact that if you put too many rats in a cage they will start eating each other.

It will be the smarter ones that figure this out first which will lead to the dumbing down of the population, which is never good for a species survival. This is already happening. Just look at who is getting elected these days...

The tree huggers don't have the answer, all they are currently doing is delaying the inevitable. The only correct answer is less people. Our replacement rate needs to be less than one to one to have even a chance for Homo S. to make it through this planetary crisis.
Chalo doesn't win the debate because his viewpoint is ideological. Chalo wants to put people in light vehicles and rich people who can afford heavier vehicles know...many at least, I know...bigger vehicles are safer. Conservation of momentum. M1V1 = M2V2. Physics. No responsible family member would ever put Grandma in a 1000 lb vehicle of any ilk....unless that inheritance again.

On the population reduction front, its happening for many reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4Wahyo5n0

You couldn't be more correct nicobie about dumbing down of our population and our leaders. Shameful. And treehuggers, they couldn't understand the laws of thermodynamics with an infusion of 30 IQ pts.

Hummina Shadeeba   100 MW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 5:55pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 5:23pm


On the population reduction front, its happening for many reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4Wahyo5n0

And treehuggers, they couldn't understand the laws of thermodynamics with an infusion of 30 IQ pts.
posting conspiracy junk knocks you down 60 IQ points

https://www.indiaspeaksdaily.com/rememb ... tal-sense/

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ebuilder   10 kW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 6:16pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 5:55pm
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 5:23pm


On the population reduction front, its happening for many reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4Wahyo5n0

And treehuggers, they couldn't understand the laws of thermodynamics with an infusion of 30 IQ pts.
posting conspiracy junk knocks you down 60 IQ points

https://www.indiaspeaksdaily.com/rememb ... tal-sense/
That was for you Hummina, communicating on your terms and matching your left wing conspiracy theory about the imminent demise of the planet due to global warming. Of course I have to come down to your level.

You need to come clean about what happened to the Woolly Mammoth which can't be pinned on the industrial revolution...lol.
The world's climate shifted yet 'again' as the glaciers melted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjssv_4CYmc

Hummina Shadeeba   100 MW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 6:40pm

Not what I said. I didn’t post any conspiracies. Do u believe the planet has been warming mainly due to humans?
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Sep 03 2022 7:37pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ebuilder   10 kW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by ebuilder » Sep 03 2022 6:59pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Sep 03 2022 6:40pm
Not what I said. I didn’t post any conspiracies. Do u believe the planet has is
warming mainly due to humans?
Yes, fractionally. As stated earlier like my college professor taught, to exist is to pollute. Will so called green technology bend the arc of climatic change an appreciable amount to counteract a 1 or 2 degree rise in temperature? No. Who first? The US, the world's industrial leader only accounts for 15% of the world's carbon footprint.
Further, scientists are divided on whether the amount of recorded change in the world's climate is due to CO2 emissions or the natural climate cycle, part of which included how continents were formed and the ice age which killed off 70% of the animals on the planet. You explain the ice age and how the climate cycle...the earth is not a static place independent of man's intervention...this intersection with man's carbon emissions and even that doesn't solve the problem. Industry and survival is predicated on economics and technology and the technology doesn't exist to completely supplant fossil fuel without the ruination of the world's economy. People want to live today, eat and clothe their kids....and heat their homes in the northern US and Canada in the wintertime which costs more than a Tesla car payment they also can't afford.

Hummina Shadeeba   100 MW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 03 2022 7:41pm

“Scientists are divided” about if global warming is mainly cause by humans, yea, but like 97% agree.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti ... sus_points

Considering how many conspiracy goofs are around the days :shock: (looking at u) I will stay with the large large majority.

I can’t find what percent believe the world is flat

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Post by Chalo » Sep 03 2022 8:04pm

ebuilder wrote:
Sep 03 2022 3:05pm
First, you probably don't know about FMVSS...HIC etc, but Grandma wouldn't survive in her 1000 lb Tesla in a hard frontal or side impact crash. There goes Grandma and we all love Grandma.
Grammy will be fine driving past her age of competency in a 1000 lb vehicle, if all the other personal vehicles are 1000 lbs or less (no exceptions for rich people, and no rich people because we're prioritizing for life quality instead of consumption), and all the heavier road going commercial vehicles are restricted by hardware to under 20 mph. That's what I'm talking about.

Socialism as practiced by the Soviets was a failed experiment, but we have thriving socialist countries today with much happier populations than ours. "Communism with Chinese characteristics" (basically capitalism with central economic planning) seems to be kicking our ass in other ways.

American capitalism is proving to be a failed experiment.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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