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Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Posted: Sep 06 2022 8:23pm
by JackFlorey
ebuilder wrote:
Sep 06 2022 7:13am
Your words...
One bill in one country comprising 15% of the global carbon footprint.
Correct. You asked for an example, so I gave you one. This is, of course, only one bill in only one country. There are many more bills and many more countries. Together they can make a difference.
..alphas don't exist whereby Neil Armstrong was an alpha among top alphas
Because he was an excellent pilot?

In that case I'm the alpha here because I'm a pretty good pilot based on my record. So you can be the beta! Now you'll have to listen to me, since that's what you think wolves do.

Works for me!
denying that social security dollars come on the back of Capitalist dollars…
Of course it does. So does our military. You wanna give that up because it's evil socialism?
Ridiculous assertions like Socialism got us to the Moon
NASA is a taxpayer funded government run socialist organization.
nuclear power and nuclear weapons
. . . came out of the Manhattan Project, a socialist project funded and directed by the US government.
10% for the big guy only it isn't dumb Joe, its big brother who gets their cut.
Sorry, your rant got so nuts there I couldn't parse it.
George Soros has your back.
Hmm. You _might_ be able to claim that Elon Musk, Irwin Jacobs, Cristiano Ammon and Badri Kothandaraman have my back, since they are the leaders of companies I have worked for and/or made a lot of money off. Soros? Not so much.
People don’t agree on fundamental things like government, commerce or what morality even means…good and evil in the eye of the beholder. We can't even agree on where America derives their wealth and superpower status and how we emerged in the world.
Most people actually do. People like you try to create artificial divides for political purposes - but for the most part, most people are centrists and they share the same basic morals. There are tons of experiments that support this.
Why is that? Pretty sure you never worked a day in industry or made anything in your life and sold it in the marketplace.
If you have ever wirelessly charged a portable device, you have utilized technology I developed and patented.
If you've ever used a Globalstar satellite phone, you used a phone that I designed.
If you ever used a PCMCIA card for WWAN data access, you used a design that I created over 20 years ago.

You're welcome.
If you did, you failed and flunked out and why you believe all the material wealth of the US fell from the sky while you sang kumbaya by the campfire. Maybe you agree with Hummina that homeless people living in tents in the US being powered by recycled solar panels 'is cool'.
I think making homeless people slightly less miserable is a good thing, yes. Solar, of course, does not solve any of the other underlying problems that lead to homelessness. It just makes them slightly less miserable. I am sure you would agree if you could escape your "I must divide people!" agenda.
You aren't dialing in from there are you? The world we live in.
I quite literally am dialing in via a wireless hotspot, using technology the company I worked for developed. You may not understand it; that's fine. Just understand that people like me provide the tools so people like you can call us clueless.
See my avatar? AC Telsa versus DC Edison. Two alphas. Edison demonized Tesla publicly including stage craft showing people burned in an AC powered electric chair. No socialistic hand holding there. A bitter dogfight for money, power and control of the grid. Tesla won.
Tesla died miserable and penniless. From that perspective Edison won hands down, since he died rich and famous with a huge following after creating almost a dozen companies that lasted decades. One is still in existence after four mergers, and is now called "Pennsylvania Transformer Technologies."

What happened to your "capitalism is everything" approach?

Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Posted: Sep 06 2022 8:32pm
by eMark
Recent replies by ebuilder (personality attacks?) have nothing to do with thread title.
Wish he would STOP ... go back and remove all such references. Here are a few ...
  • "You are my clown show"
  • "Fun to spin you up however and watch you whirl like a dervish. Remember, L on your forehead as you spin."
  • "You don't matter. Foo-foo dust in the deepest dark hole of the cosmos."
  • "I dismiss your pseudo faux-alpha chad psychobabble energy. You dropped out because you couldn't compete. You are irrelevant."
I'm really surprised that ebuilder sees the need for justifying such mud-slinging flame :flame: ... directed at CS.

FWIW: NOT a liberal-socialist, but do listen to Ralph Nader :thumb: ... and Newt Gingrich :thumb: ... whenever i happen to catch them ... appreciate their insight on American economy and world events (great minds).

Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Posted: Sep 06 2022 9:15pm
by JackFlorey
eMark wrote:
Sep 06 2022 8:32pm
FWIW: NOT a liberal-socialist, but do listen to Ralph Nader :thumb: ... and Newt Gingrich :thumb: ... whenever i happen to catch them ... appreciate their insight on American economy and world events (great minds).
Yep. There is wisdom to be found in unusual places. I have read a lot of work by Ayn Rand, Rush Limbaugh and Thomas Sowell. And even though I disagree with their conclusions, their thoughts are often interesting.

Unfortunately, their work (as is the work on the other side of the aisle) is often reduced to memes and sound bites, removing much of the value of their thoughts.

But to get back to the original thread:

There is absolutely a need for oil and gas. Its most important use is as a raw material for manufacturing; there is literally nothing else we have that gives us the range of products (naptha, gasoline, kerosene, bunker fuel, diesel, asphalt etc etc) that we then turn into clothing, rope, paint, drugs, plastics, solvents, lubricants and roads.

And the cool thing about using them that way is that they can be reused. Right now it's difficult but it's being done, and in the future we will get better at reusing plastics, roads, rope and clothing by melting them down, processing them and then using them for another purposes.

Given that, it's essential to NOT use burn all the oil we have as fast as we can. There are things that are easy to reduce or eliminate - fuel for cars, fuel for short haul trucks, fuel for maritime shipping. These should take priority.

Longer term we will be able to replace the oil used for aviation, spacecraft and long distance trucking. In the short term there's no good solution, but even making the change for cars, short haul trucking and marine fuels will make a significant difference. It will both reduce our CO2 usage and extend the amount of oil we have for the next generations.

Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Posted: Sep 06 2022 9:18pm
by ebuilder
Jack, I am sorry. I know a cop out. I don't have the energy to rebut your every point. Sorry if I don't think your green ideas will save the world or barely make a dent in global warming.

As to Tesla, to me...I am a scientist btw, he is the greatest who ever lived. Inconceivably prolific and inexpressively brilliant. I have read extensively about both men and know their lives or at least what history reflects. What Edison did to Tesla for commerce and fame is unconscionable. You conflate winning with the company Edison thriving today aka a Capitalist success and Tesla's profound contribution to humanity. Capitalism and who is right isn't always the same thing.

Tesla was right in that AC was the correct choice for the power grid and what we have today. Edison was wrong and dastardly for smearing Tesla. Edison had to live with his deceit and deception of the public which diminished his star for many. I am quite sure Edison knew in his heart of hearts that Tesla was correct and Tesla was the more brilliant man. Btw, many great scientists and even classical musicians had great rivals that pushed one another. They played off each other's work and were rivals. That survival of the fittest thing...relentlessly competitive men driven to surpass their rival for fame and 'fortune'.

Einstein is one of the preeminent physicists who ever lived but was not anywhere near the mathematician of several other great men lessor known. Einstein's colleague Ernst Gabor Straus, a young mathematician whom the great physicist selected to help him during his Princeton years. "A lot of people think of Einstein as a mathematical genius - he wasn't," said David McMullan, a physicist at Plymouth University. He said Einstein used Straus as he had used other mathematically gifted colleagues in his early career. "Straus's mathematical virtuosity gave a framework to Einstein's intuitive vision of the universe."

People have different strengths and weakness. If you like classical music then you may know the relationship between Frederic Chopin and Franz Liszt. Chopin is my favorite composer and many believe him to be the greater man but Liszt is generally regarded as a superior pianist with unusual dexterity and speed. Both men had great intellect and respect for one another.

The Capitalism thing is merely a reality of commerce. Socialism doesn't promote the same incentive for success and therefore exceptionalism. Some men have incredible drive and ambition. Other men don't. For those that do and succeed, they are rewarded much greater. That is their incentive to succeed. Many good people lose at it trying. Howard Hughes is one of the most compelling men of our time in film making and aviation and died like Tesla. I don't think this diminishes either man. There really aren't happy endings. We all end up the same and in fact, in life this may indeed be the crowning poetic justice.

I just love Chopin so forgive me:

Re: "Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

Posted: Sep 06 2022 9:36pm
by nicobie
And on that note, I'm locking this thread.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: