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ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 12:11am
by LockH
Geees. All this talk about the EV Biz world. But zero talk here `bout *investing* (to profit, one hopes) in the "EV Biz"? One example, not sure of their product mix, but Shimano Incorporated Limited (OTCMKTS:SHMDF) stocks ain't doing too shabby, seems like. Currently about $87.27US per share, about this time one year ago, per that Giggly thingee, maybe $64.49US? Up about 35% over one year. Anybuddy on ES popping champagne right now maybe? Anyone here care to predict any electric bicycle manufacturer stock prices, watt they might do over the near coming up? Other than SHMDF, are there EVen *ANY* OTHER ebike manufacturers "in the stock game"?

I am not wealthy guy (dunno why others keep feeding me champagne). Have never owner ANY stocks worth mentioning.


Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 1:44pm
by Kingfish
Missed out on Bitcoin. Not EV-related, but sure was a profit monster if you were on the updraft.

Lurking, KF

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 2:19pm
by Trackman417
I was going to jump on the tesla band wagon before they booked their first profits, but decided to wait a bit and see what happened :roll: .

I don't think there are any EV company's that that fit my price range (under $10 a share) and that I would feel comfortable giving my money to. The deck is stacked against them right now with relatively low gas prices.
Are there any public EV company's?

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 4:52pm
by LockH
Oh Goody. A couple of nibbles. Some of us on ES might think electric traction is maybe a "profit monster", and in North America and in other places (on planet earth) about to hit a HUGH "updraft". So, not just the electric vehicle manufacturers, but manufacturers and supply and service of related products and services. (Watt? No chain of EV fast charge stations/coffee shops yet?!!!) Watt if we on ES were to hive off some separate "forum" (eg a Yeehaw -Yahoo - group) with access limited to any folks that want to pony up say $20 (Cd or US of A), and my understanding of investing? Never "bet" more than one might afford to lose) . While we wait for the kitty to reach some such amount (eg $200-$1000), we might talk/tap about watt stock we might invest in first, and how much?

And like any good musketeer, it's All for One, and One for All.

Watt say, all? (I am sure I have missed something. EG, some pit fall. I have nEVer been a hunter, but would *LOVE* to be on the hunt for any opportunity.)

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 7:28pm
by footloose
Buy high, sell low, secret of my vast success in the market

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 7:33pm
by LockH
Huh? Explain, please?

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 8:01pm
by LockH ... report.pdf

While reading that report, one might wonder how to profit from man-made climate change (but I suspect some women are involved also). I mean, with regards to how humans etc might use electric traction for personal transportation.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 8:12pm
by t3sla
Lithium price will begin to plummet next year as CDM makes its switch.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 28 2013 8:46pm
by LockH

Ummm... That's a load of "CDMs", and the acronym gets zero hits in MY "ES dictionary". Explain please, or post a link here (better)?

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 7:35am
by t3sla
China domestic market, it's about to be the largest market force known to man. The American middle class shaped the modern world, now things are about to change and demanding market leader shifts. The local market is gearing for change and once the higher ups decide to green light the switch nothing will stop the price collapse. Currently the wholesale on a domestic 48V pack with case, BMS is cheaper than HK lipo

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 8:02am
by dnmun
if you don't know what you are doing in the market you really should avoid it. there is no need to put money at risk if you don't have a clue.

you never mentioned Tesla motors. it had a big run and is certainly the most well known EV stock..

i only invest in stuff i know, which is the oil and gas business. natural gas now only costs about 30% of what it did 5 years ago. that has created huge profit opportunities for the chemical producers based in the US and canada. but the producers have been slaughtered.

canada has lost literally hundreds of billions of loonies because the inability to ship oil to either coast or to Cushing on the keystone XL pipeline which has been blocked. it does look like they are finally gonna get the northern gateway pipeline to BC built and the line 9 reversal too so that should help the canadian economy a lot more than any EV stocks. amazing how a buncha american movie stars can ruin the core of the canadian economy and the jobs that canadians could have if they wanted.

turns out a lot of the skilled oil sands jobs are going to irish and polish workers too. not enuff skilled canadians to fill all the openings.

icewrench clued me to a small IC fab called himax HIMX back in the summer when it was $4.5 and it just hit a new high around $13.8 wednesday. now i am speculating on a short it has moved so far so fast. but too risky to short imo.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 8:24am
by LockH
China? Yah man. In the "QC" (Quality Control) dept, they def have the control part nailed down. (Or plugged with a bullet, etc.) But in the quality dept., I'm not so sure? Le Chinois do lovely stuff with worms (see "silk"), and bamboo, but in some other areas, I tend to think they might still be playing ketchup to the North American and European folks (see "forum". see also "tobacco". Hehe...) I tend to think the diff. species of humanity have been doing leap frog with each other for all time.
PS Oh yeah, and they make great walls too! Sure had Hadrian beat. Pretty sure though the Romans built more roads and aquaducts.
PPS And the Europeans though the big Chinese boats were complete junk.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 8:32am
by LockH
if you don't know what you are doing in the market...
Ummm... Perhaps it might be added here, that an "investor club" implies that members bring some knowledge to the table (so to speak), and that any decisions made are only *after* research and discussion. Sorry, I thought that was sort of obvious.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 11:14am
by t3sla
LockH wrote:China? Yah man. In the "QC" (Quality Control) dept, they def have the control part nailed down. (Or plugged with a bullet, etc.) But in the quality dept., I'm not so sure?
There is no problem with quality when you pay for it, market forces are driving more resources into cost reduction.
We have a saying, if there are 20 parts there are 20 ways to reduce the cost.

You are dealing with a type of market that correlates increases in quantity with quality produced (refinement as a substitution for R&D because of the rate of change and production cycles) So when you are talking about something like 18650 cells, well that means everything.

Some of the cheap batteries that are exported are worse than their domestic equivalent, because you are talking about a market size of 100 million + units (even if that is 90% dominated by SLA)

But that's all about to change :mrgreen:

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 11:51am
by Icewrench
First thing I think of when talking electric vehicle stocks is Tesla Motors.
All Hail Tesla and what they have done!
Drove a roadster about a mile on a two lane country road and it pulled hard all the way up to @80 mph.

Then what else is there golf carts , EZ Go owned by textron or ClubCar owned by Ingersoll Rand.
Very few pure ev plays out there.

Like to kick ideas around.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 12:21pm
by LockH
t3sla wrote:There is no problem with quality when you pay for it, market forces are driving more resources into cost reduction.
We have a saying, if there are 20 parts there are 20 ways to reduce the cost.
Agree. Here in the GWN (Great White North), many - in Ontario at least - seem to believe this is the "Land of the Free" (free lunch, that is).Bought stuff so cheap it breaks? No problem! Just throw it out/buy new cheap stuff! I like to mention that the "Land of the Free" actually means our friends to the south, and that it has nothing to do at all with free meals or free anything else. Product covered under warranty? No problem! Will throw it out/replace with more... watt some might rudely refer to a "cheap crap". These daze, `round here, well designed and built is usually referred to as "retro". Or "antique".

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 29 2013 8:40pm
by t3sla
Yes we call that mastering the art of disposable, low margin high volume (turn and burn)
Now we are discussing investing in EV, that means long term and technology solutions that deliver real change.

Break down everything that in a Tesla, look at the components that are unilateral and needed on other EVs.
Think of Tesla as a OEM supplier (they have already started with drive terrains).

You want to know who makes the most money in the worlds biggest fastest growing market?
Cardboard and Stickers manufactures (and the equipment that makes equipment) why?
Because irrespective of the product it needs a box and label, it's almost like a manufacturing tax

Now if you want to invest in EV, think about what I said before, 20 components 20 opportunities for cost reduction, but 20 areas of increased volume growth.

There is more to EV than a motor and batteries, break it down.
Start with equipment, battery welding (who can offer new tech to reduce the time it takes all those 18650 packs to be built)

If you want to be an EV investor use your knowledge, skill, passion and insight to do what no market analyst can.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 30 2013 5:56am
by LockH
Nice article: ... 14023.html

When reading that article, think "slow speed" (and relatively "light weight") electric vehicles for urban transportation (might help if they are cheaper to purchase and operate too). That whole awkward climate change thingee would be perhaps just a "fringe benefit".

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 30 2013 7:40am
by Harold in CR
Due to the fight from the Power Co's, to stop paying Solar Producers for their power put back into the grid (homeowners), I would think look into the Battery Manufacturers, and see which ones are most likely to be able to take up the new market of battery storage for home owners.

This is making up to be a major problem for home owners with bigger $$$$ Solar panel systems. It's looking to get ugly.


Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 30 2013 10:02am
by LockH
I would think look into the Battery Manufacturers...
Yah man. I was looking at batts last night. Current fav:

From their site:
Established in 1935, we're proud to be one of North America's leading lead-acid battery manufacturers and the Nation's only remaining independent battery manufacturer.Located in Springhill, Nova Scotia, we produce a wide range of batteries for use in railroad, marine, motive and renewable energy applications. Relied on worldwide, our batteries are internationally recognized for their dependability and hit rate of recyclability.It's not just the outstanding quality of our batteries that we're so well-known for but also our continual advances in process, dedicated work force and unrivaled commitment to sustainability.
And none of the SLA stuff. Hard core lead acid, recharged by combo PV and wind generator. (Think, old sailor, now on the hard. Need to "fire up" (provide electricity for heat/light etc) one drafty old wooden "carriage house" (aka garage) on the soon to be renamed "Petticoat Lane", in watt I like to call "Carbeeria", a suburb of a little backwater town aka Toronto. That garage/shed is already "off the grid". So making money (our local "hydro" buys "surplus" electricity) wouldn't be bad, would it?
PS. Mentions somewhere, that batt co stolen from our American neighbours (Co originally est in 1935 in Salem MA). Salem? Oh! Scary! :lol: Well, I'm bewitched, anyway.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 30 2013 10:28am
by LockH
BTW, my current "project garage" (plus the soon to be renamed PL) in the middle/left in this pic:
PetticoatLN.jpg (67.87 KiB) Viewed 9274 times
Plans include making it a "shady lane", covered w/some wood pole mounted canvas canopies (PV panels on top, of course."My" lane has a nice southern exposure).
PS. See also the thread on ES "How to Solar Charge an Electric Bicycle", here: ... =3&t=28436

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 30 2013 6:52pm
by LockH
Had an idea earlier today... I guess I had it first when I was in the tub, maybe one of those crazy idea/"Eureka" thingees that some Greek guy had once upon a time. My understanding is, ya got to have lots of ideas. The tricky part is to separate out the good ideas from the bad/dumb ideas (most ideas are bad/dumb). And no, it's a bit too chilly - read "bloody cold" - to run naked all the way to Syracuse NY at the moment.

Re an "ES Investor Club".

I am currently in the process of restoring an old, unused wooden shed (see above). My intention is to use that old garage as a "drop in" center for ebike folks (and the ebike curious) in the east end of Toronto. Sorta close to downtown, really close to Lake Ontario (in the summer, the lake makes for a really big "pool"), and also close to that annual International Ebike Uphill Challenge/Race thingee.

I'd also like to have classes (guest instructors) in ebike care and feeding, riding safety, converting an ("antique"?) pedal-only bicycle/trike to electric assist, etc, etc.

But the garage currently has no "hydro" (no nuclear/hydro etc electricity supplied). Think heat and light, recharging/repairs to electric vehicles, searchlight shone into the air at night as a beacon, etc, etc.

So I need a couple of things. At first, at least a way to generate electricity, plus some way to store it for later use.

And yeah, I know about that yummy silicone dioxide stuff (think photovoltaic cells/panels. Yes ladies, there ARE other uses for sillycone!). But being an old half dead white sailor guy currently stuck onshore on the hard, my thoughts lean towards windmills (I blame the Dutch), and wind vane/generators. And to store the "energy" produced as electricity, good old lead and diluted sulfuric acid (thank you, Monsieur Gaston Planté). Not EVen the "absorbed glass mat" or "valve regulated lead-acid" varments, but the raw, sorta tricky stuff (the garage is already sorta well "ventilated", with holes in the roof and no door on the front "door").

So I am currently "in the market" for at least a wind genny, plus some lead-acid batts. And I am leaning towards Surrette Rolls for batts. Maybe a string of six volters strung together to up the volts to maybe 48. But this is kinda "rich" for my budget right now (it's been a looong time since I had to live waaay below the "poverty line", courtesy the Ontario Disability Support "Plan").

But watt if an "ES Investment Club" were to buy memberships in the Toronto Electric Riders Assoc. (a Canadian federally chartered Not-for-Profit corp, aka "TERA", not to be confused with TERRA), and TERA were to keep track of the money and buy this stuff? For the use of THEIR Members (and TERA guests). Ultimately to promote electric traction (primarily the EPAC or pedelec in Europe, in Canada and most provinces, including Ontario, the "power-assisted bicycle", both two and three wheeled) to folks in North America (things are a bit "sticky" at the moment for the "ebike" in cities like Toronto and NYC, etc).

If my whole little experiment "goes south", the wind generator and lead-acid batts, PV panels etc could be sold off as "slightly used".

Just ONE annual membership in TERA right now costs $25 (Beaver Bucks) as I recall. We might expect regular reporting from the TERA Treasurer (I myself am immediate past Treas of TERA. Only stepped aside "for health reasons"), and dozens or hundreds of TERA folks are welcome to drop by anytime to check on our/their investment. Get a free recharge, etc.

Does this idea EVen sound plausible? Usually this is the time for some folks to dream up the most unimaginable calamity. As "investments" go, I kinda hope at $25, is a tiny one for most. Would anyone here care to name how much they spent in lottery tickets this year just ending? And how much money they won?

For one local lottery, as I recall, if you were to put the odds of winning on a roulette wheel, it'd mean a wheel maybe 240 MILES IN DIAMETER. I would hope the odds/risk in an ebiker charge station/hangout (the first in a series?) are waaaay better for a "ticket" buyer? There IS a "down side", but it is kinda tiny?

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 31 2013 1:39am
by Kingfish
OK, I have a new idea for investment :idea:


Can you just feel the gold?! Huh, yeah, got it? :D

Virtual currency spawned by an Internet meme draws donations after holiday hacking


You heard it first - right here on ES! :wink:

Come here lil' feller <scritch scratch> KF

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 31 2013 2:13am
by friendly1uk
t3sla wrote: The American middle class shaped the modern world
Over weight and too great a strain on resources? lol

I think of the industrial revolution as the big game changer. Nothing significant has happened since has it?

Chipping together could be a safe bet. With so many people invested in to getting it right, a great deal of eyes will be on your money. Working as a team should average out extreme blunders, so returns should track the market. I'm not sure if I can be bothered for $20 though.

Re: ES Investors Club

Posted: Dec 31 2013 7:21am
by LockH
Kingfish wrote:OK, I have a new idea for investment :idea:
Ummm KF? How exactly does that tie back to electric traction please? Myself, I see I jumped on board that whole Bitcoin thingee ("If you like this message feel free to donate BeerCoins (BTC) to:
1LxAXWmbjY6SeMf8r9HHhSKt6pWyPvWg6L"), but at this point, my life having sorta fallen apart, all I have to show for my "BTC experiment" is a dead laptop computer, watt may or may not still have a "wallet" on it, watt I wouldn't know how to access at this point maybe anyway.

Does your suggestion have anything at all to do with electric traction? Just curious...