Tesla Model 3

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Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 30 2017 7:19pm

I admire your optimism.
I see the lack of inventory a result of the manufacturers no really wanting to seel in large volumes due to their reduced margin, ( if not an outright loss ) .Otherwise GM and Nissan could have churned out much more .
Tesla are happy to keep plowing on as they are surviving on the credits they get from other non EV manufacturers
Also, its obvious that sales are concentrated in those regeons where government subsidise EV purchace (China , USA, EU, Norway, etc) which makes the elevated EV prices less painful for the customers.
When those subsidies run out, as they eventually will, we will see a different situation
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » May 30 2017 10:51pm

Hillhater wrote:I admire your optimism.
I see the lack of inventory a result of the manufacturers no really wanting to seel in large volumes due to their reduced margin, ( if not an outright loss ) .Otherwise GM and Nissan could have churned out much more .
Tesla are happy to keep plowing on as they are surviving on the credits they get from other non EV manufacturers
Also, its obvious that sales are concentrated in those regeons where government subsidise EV purchace (China , USA, EU, Norway, etc) which makes the elevated EV prices less painful for the customers.
When those subsidies run out, as they eventually will, we will see a different situation
Lots of Teslas here and there is Sweet dick all for incentives for them.

Or was..

As well Tesla is not able to use the credits from the other companies anymore. Believe it or not the Model S and Model X make them money but they have just reinvested the money to grow the company.

As for nissan they sell lots of leafs but only so many people want an ugly car with short range.

You should change your name to EV hater.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 31 2017 8:27pm

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » May 31 2017 8:30pm

They won't want the finished product shown off till it's being delivered.
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jonescg   1 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by jonescg » Jun 01 2017 12:02am

Even so, looks minimalist. I like it :D

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Jun 01 2017 8:32pm

quote : E Musk..
" You wont need instruments in an autonomous car. How often do you look at the instruments in a Taxi ? "
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Jun 01 2017 10:37pm

Hillhater wrote:quote : E Musk..
" You wont need instruments in an autonomous car. How often do you look at the instruments in a Taxi ? "
True and this will have autonomous as a option.... I am not getting that option at least at first. So there will still be gauges
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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jonescg   1 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by jonescg » Jun 01 2017 10:40pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Hillhater wrote:quote : E Musk..
" You wont need instruments in an autonomous car. How often do you look at the instruments in a Taxi ? "
True and this will have autonomous as a option.... I am not getting that option at least at first. So there will still be gauges
I'm not keen on spending more on that feature, but maybe after a few years I'll enable it.

I will probably option it as such - Rear wheel drive, biggest battery option, biggest charger option (we have lots of 32 A three pahse power in Oz) and the most basic trim on the interior. And a tow-bar. It's got to be able to take the bike to the track :)

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Jun 02 2017 1:20am

Arlo1 wrote:
Hillhater wrote:quote : E Musk..
" You wont need instruments in an autonomous car. How often do you look at the instruments in a Taxi ? "
True and this will have autonomous as a option.... I am not getting that option at least at first. So there will still be gauges
That depends on what you expect for "instrumentation" ..
Tesla have said there wont be a HUD or a drivers display as on the "S" , only the 15" display in the center.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by LockH » Jun 02 2017 2:57pm

Image
(They say:)
Bloomberg | Quint is a multiplatform, Indian business and financial news company. We combine Bloomberg’s global leadership in business and financial news and data, with Quintillion Media’s deep expertise in the Indian market and digital news delivery, to provide high quality business news, insights and trends for India’s sophisticated audiences.

Bloomberg Media is the world’s leading multi-platform media company for business and finance, which draws on the editorial resources of more than 2,400 editorial professionals globally in more than 120 countries. Bloomberg Media is the consumer-facing media organization of Bloomberg L.P.

Quintillion Media is one of India’s fastest growing digital content companies. With its flagship product TheQuint.com in English and Hindi (hindi.thequint.com), it has pioneered a new form of digital journalism and storytelling for the mobile-first, social-native consumer.
Denmark Is Killing Tesla (and Other Electric Cars):
https://www.bloombergquint.com/technolo ... ctric-cars

Begins:

(Bloomberg) -- The electric car has dropped out of favor in the country that pioneered renewable energy.

Sales in Denmark of Electrically Chargeable Vehicles (ECV), which include plug-in hybrids, plunged 60.5 percent in the first quarter of the year, compared with the first three months of 2016, according to latest data from the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA). That contrasts with an increase of nearly 80 percent in neighboring Sweden and an average rise of 30 percent in the European Union.
Includes a graph:
Image

Continues:

The figures suggest clean-energy vehicles still aren’t attractive enough to compete without some form of subsidy.

Denmark, a global leader in wind power whose own attempt at an electric car in the early 1980s famously flopped, used to be enthralled with them. Its bicycle-loving people bought 5,298 of them in 2015, more than double the amount sold that year in Italy, which has a population more than 10 times the size of Denmark's.

However, it turns out that those phenomenal sales figures had as much to do with convenience as with environmental concerns: electric car dealers were for a long time spared the jaw-dropping import tax of 180 percent that Denmark applies on vehicles fueled by a traditional combustion engine.

In the fall of 2015, the Liberal-led government of Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen announced the progressive phasing out of tax breaks on electric cars, citing budget constraints and the desire to level the playing field.

Tesla, whose sales were skyrocketing at the time, lobbied against the move, with Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk warning during a visit to Copenhagen that sales would be hit.

The new tax regime "completely killed the market," Laerke Flader, head of the Danish Electric Car Alliance, said in a recent interview. "Price really matters."
... and goes on:

According to the government’s original plans, tax breaks were to have been phased out from 2016 to 2020, when they would be treated in the same way as fossil fuel-powered cars.

But on April 18, having taken note of the drop in sales, the government decided to change the rules.

"It’s no secret electrical vehicle sales have been below what we expected a year and a half ago," Tax Minister Karsten Lauritzen said in a statement. "The agreed phase-in has turned out to be hard and that likely halted sales."

The new rules mean the transition to a post-subsidy era has been postponed until at least 5,000 new electric cars are sold over the 2016-2018 period. Tax breaks will in any case be progressively eliminated as of 2019, regardless of sales numbers. The plan envisages a 40 percent registration tax minus a 10,000 kroner ($1,500) deduction in 2019, with the tax rising to 65 percent in 2021, 90 percent in 2021 and 100 percent in 2022.

While sales of low or zero emission cars continue to boom in neighboring Sweden thanks to a wide range of subsidies, including a five-year tax break and a 40,000 kronor ($4,600) purchase premium, the Danish government's U-turn has caused confusion, prompting many potential customers to either postpone or desist from their purchases.

Flader said electric car dealers have rolled back their sales drive as a result.
... and ends:

One of the hardest hit is Tesla, the global poster child of electric cars, whose Model S once dominated the Danish market.

Flader, however, anticipates a rebound in sales as soon as dealerships are allowed to advertise tax-free prices again.
8)
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by LockH » Jun 02 2017 9:57pm

^^ The "shot heard around the world".

Image

Denmark ‘kills’ electric cars sales with tax move
("PRICE MATTERS:With electric car sales plunging 60.5% in the first quarter, the Danish government has postponed plans to phase out tax breaks"):
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/arc ... 2003671796

Bloomberg article begins:
The electric car has dropped out of favor in the nation that pioneered renewable energy.

Sales in Denmark of electrically chargeable vehicles, which include plug-in hybrids, plunged 60.5 percent in the first quarter of the year, compared with the first three months of last year, European Automobile Manufacturers Association data showed.
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LockH   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by LockH » Jun 04 2017 8:52am

LockH wrote:^^ The "shot heard around the world".
Stay tuned... for news about the Tesla electric bike... :wink:

Denmark is killing Tesla and other electric cars:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/sma ... 972547.cms
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by LockH » Jun 04 2017 9:49am

On the other hand... News from Hawaii:

Thank Tesla and tax credits for putting more electric cars on Hawaii roads:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3557 ... waii-roads

Includes:
Teslas amount to 13 percent of all registered electric cars on Oahu, Maui, and Hawaii Island. (The luxury electric vehicles range in price from $68,000 to upwards of $130,000.)

The report also found that the state-level policies that have impacted electric car sales in a positive way include reducing registration fees, exempting drivers from HOV lanes and reserving parking spaces.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2017 11:18am

America pulling out of the Paris agreement don't look to good for earth or green energy we need cleaner ice engines yesterday.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Jun 05 2017 5:47am

LockH wrote:
LockH wrote:^^ The "shot heard around the world".
Stay tuned... for news about the Tesla electric bike... :wink:

Denmark is killing Tesla and other electric cars:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/sma ... 972547.cms
Makes sense to me and its something I have been secretly expecting to see more of.
Considering that Tesla's new semi-truck is expected to use a battery pack just under 1MWh (800kwh) https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tesla-electric-truck/
Thats the equivalent of 10 electric cars but when you consider how expensive it is to install a windturbine vs its expected lifetime vs its maintenance vs intermittency vs coal/nuclear power then the government would be looking at spending millions of dollars for each EV to be happily charged via the magic of wind power on the road.
While everyone in this world likes to feel special, no ones really willing to put up a 8million dollar windturbine just for every single person in the world, governments like Denmark have come as close as possible to help sell their windturbine technology to the rest of the world but EVs are logically going to unearth this reality.. I would expect they will just secretly buy more coal/nuclear electricity from neighboring countries as time goes on and claim its all wind like all other heavy pro-renewable states claim and do.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by LockH » Jun 05 2017 11:47am

ANOTHER kick in the head for Tesla...
National insurer AAA is raising its rates on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) vehicles by ~30% based on data showing that the Model S and Model X had abnormally high claim frequencies and high costs of insurance claims compared with other cars in the same classes.
Seen here:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3271468-t ... urance-aaa
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Jun 05 2017 1:11pm

TheBeastie wrote:Considering that Tesla's new semi-truck is expected to use a battery pack just under 1MWh (800kwh) https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tesla-electric-truck/
Thats the equivalent of 10 electric cars but when you consider how expensive it is to install a windturbine vs its expected lifetime vs its maintenance vs intermittency vs coal/nuclear power then the government would be looking at spending millions of dollars for each EV to be happily charged via the magic of wind power on the road.
Right. For them, solar would probably be a better choice, since it's currently the cheapest form of energy. Why spend more money than you need to?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Jun 06 2017 3:38am

LockH wrote:ANOTHER kick in the head for Tesla...
National insurer AAA is raising its rates on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) vehicles by ~30% based on data showing that the Model S and Model X had abnormally high claim frequencies and high costs of insurance claims compared with other cars in the same classes.
Seen here:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3271468-t ... urance-aaa
Good find. Obviously, Tesla self-driving cars are crashing much more frequently then other cars and Tesla are in denial which seems consistent with news of crashes/fatalities and their denial behavior. http://fortune.com/2016/07/05/elon-musk ... tock-sale/

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by jonescg » Jun 06 2017 3:44am

TheBeastie wrote:
LockH wrote:ANOTHER kick in the head for Tesla...
National insurer AAA is raising its rates on Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) vehicles by ~30% based on data showing that the Model S and Model X had abnormally high claim frequencies and high costs of insurance claims compared with other cars in the same classes.
Seen here:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3271468-t ... urance-aaa
Good find. Obviously, Tesla self-driving cars are crashing much more frequently then other cars and Tesla are in denial which seems consistent with news of crashes/fatalities and their denial behavior.
That's not how I read it at all. The way I see it, people with $100k+ cars tend to be very precious about them, and will make a claim regardless of the excess. Many of these claims could be carpark bingles where the paint is scratched. Either way, the insurer is dealing with them regularly enough to notice. I didn't read anything linking autonomous driving to the increased rate of claims.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Jun 15 2017 7:17am

Audi is trolling Tesla with its latest marketing campaign in Berlin

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/audi ... sla-2017-6
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 19 2017 9:48pm

The multi-page discussion about "Wind Solar vs Coal, gasoline, nuclear" has been moved here. Please keep the discussion in this thread about the Tesla Model 3...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =7&t=89002

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by wineboyrider » Jun 19 2017 9:56pm

spinningmagnets wrote:The multi-page discussion about "Wind Solar vs Coal, gasoline, nuclear" has been moved here. Please keep the discussion in this thread about the Tesla Model 3...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =7&t=89002
Right thread?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 19 2017 10:28pm

Right thread?
If the ES members participating in that discussion want the name changed, or they want that discussion moved back, I can do either one. It is a brand new thread created for that two page discussion which "looked like" it was about subsidies and cost/benefits of coal/wind-solar, etc...

Didn't see any mention of the Tesla Model 3 on those pages.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by wineboyrider » Jun 19 2017 11:20pm

@SM Got it.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by wineboyrider » Jun 19 2017 11:23pm

Ianhill wrote:America pulling out of the Paris agreement don't look to good for earth or green energy we need cleaner ice engines yesterday.
What don't believe in the future of EV transport? ICE is so neanderthal.
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