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Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 23 2019 1:30pm
by Ohbse
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 21 2019 5:37pm
? Are you suggesting they never ran a full lap ?
But they just spent several days there running laps with the stated intention of setting a time.
So why no time posted ? Not even an “unofficial” time ?
They were happy to post a time for Laguna
At least they qualified for the “Bongard” club. !
No time is posted because they have yet to run a 7:20. The data logging reveals that putting together elements of other laps, the car as is will run a 7:20. They are running in a manufacturers pool, they are running into traffic multiple times a lap. Theoretical lap from peak deviation is a standard feature in all track data acquisition equipment, this is completely normal. To set an official record you need an exclusive slot without anybody else present, there's nothing nefarious going on, it's just that the track is busy and booked months in advance!

You guys are missing the whole point of the 800v feature, it's 400 more V than their competitors! It doesn't matter that it offers no actual advantage and increases unit costs and development time, everyone knows bigger numbers are better, duh.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 23 2019 7:20pm
by Hillhater
Ohbse wrote:
Sep 23 2019 1:30pm

No time is posted because they have yet to run a 7:20. The data logging reveals that putting together elements of other laps, the car as is will run a 7:20. They are running in a manufacturers pool, they are running into traffic multiple times a lap. Theoretical lap from peak deviation is a standard feature in all track data acquisition equipment, this is completely normal. To set an official record you need an exclusive slot without anybody else present, there's nothing nefarious going on, it's just that the track is busy and booked months in advance!....
Yes, i understand how they gat a “virtual” lap time..but...
...where did that 7:23 recorded by Autoblog come from ?....did Teslas data logging miss that one ? ...unfortunate ., that would have made a good “unofficial” time to spruke.
....why would Tesla make such a pubic /MSM noise about lapping the ‘Ring. If they knew they could not run a clean lap. ( Several people have suggested they could have negotiated a 15 min exclusive slot )

You are assuming the incomplete lap is due to traffic...
.... I could infer that the 7:20 “composite” time indicates that maybe the car was not able to maintain maximum performance over one complete lap ( as with all previous M “S” attempts )
..just depends which way you want to spin it
But leaving the circuit on the back of a recovery truck was not a good look !
[/quote]

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 23 2019 11:13pm
by Arlo1
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 23 2019 7:20pm
Ohbse wrote:
Sep 23 2019 1:30pm

No time is posted because they have yet to run a 7:20. The data logging reveals that putting together elements of other laps, the car as is will run a 7:20. They are running in a manufacturers pool, they are running into traffic multiple times a lap. Theoretical lap from peak deviation is a standard feature in all track data acquisition equipment, this is completely normal. To set an official record you need an exclusive slot without anybody else present, there's nothing nefarious going on, it's just that the track is busy and booked months in advance!....
Yes, i understand how they gat a “virtual” lap time..but...
...where did that 7:23 recorded by Autoblog come from ?....did Teslas data logging miss that one ? ...unfortunate ., that would have made a good “unofficial” time to spruke.
....why would Tesla make such a pubic /MSM noise about lapping the ‘Ring. If they knew they could not run a clean lap. ( Several people have suggested they could have negotiated a 15 min exclusive slot )

You are assuming the incomplete lap is due to traffic...
.... I could infer that the 7:20 “composite” time indicates that maybe the car was not able to maintain maximum performance over one complete lap ( as with all previous M “S” attempts )
..just depends which way you want to spin it
But leaving the circuit on the back of a recovery truck was not a good look !

What I found and I will link the Now you know video is they actually ran a lap but its not official because for it to be official it would have to be timed at an event done by the track them self's but this was not an official event meaning there was no transponder on the car hence the phase hand stopped.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 24 2019 5:42am
by Hillhater
A sadly misinformed pair of Tesla fan boys. They need to get their facts correct.
There was no lap time , unofficial , or hand timed, because Tesla never ran more than one lap without recharging.
And that means you do not cover a full lap..the exit is before the start point.
They did not need hand timing or the track timing .... they had it all on data loggers.
Tesla have posted some of the datalogging info , but why not show the timing from the logger also ?

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 24 2019 4:22pm
by Arlo1
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 24 2019 5:42am
A sadly misinformed pair of Tesla fan boys. They need to get their facts correct.
There was no lap time , unofficial , or hand timed, because Tesla never ran more than one lap without recharging.
And that means you do not cover a full lap..the exit is before the start point.
They did not need hand timing or the track timing .... they had it all on data loggers.
Tesla have posted some of the datalogging info , but why not show the timing from the logger also ?
Where do you get that information from?

Porsche also did not have an official times as it was not an Event.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 24 2019 7:36pm
by Hillhater
? which part ?..

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/09/here ... rburgring/
......
Due to the fact the the public is not allowed into the T13 area during any industry session the lap times were taken from the first corner after the start (Nordkehre, or North Corner).
Because our guy with the watch can’t see over the hill they have to guesstimate when the car finishes by listening to when it goes over the curbs just before the finish line. So please take that time with a grain of salt. We will have to wait until Tesla releases the official times to confirm......

...A few details about the runs themselves. First, the Model S testers only completed one lap each run before they stopped. We don’t believe this is due to any overheating issues (that we know of, yet) but it’s just done to recharge. ........
And from a ‘Ring track guide site...
...... You enter the track through a set of ticket gates, run your lap, and then exit back into the paddock about 200 feet behind where you started. You can choose to drive right back up to the gates for another lap, or peel off into the paddock to cool down.....
.
Tesla posted the Data logging reference on Twitspeak,. So we know they have all the timing information.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 25 2019 10:16am
by Arlo1
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 24 2019 7:36pm
? which part ?..

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/09/here ... rburgring/
Yes your link confirms what I said.
If (probably when) either of these automakers decide to set an official lap time, they will have be full production cars and go through through stringent inspection with no non-production parts allowed other than for safety.

They will then be timed in an official session set aside for lap records and if a record is set than the lap time, car model, driver and video will be posted on the official Nürburgring site.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 25 2019 5:42pm
by Hillhater
Yes ,..but what you said has been known from the start...
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 10 2019 12:58am
These track test comparisons are interesting for sure, but they do not mean much unless thy are conducted by reputable independent, unbiased, testers (R &T, C & D, Motor, etc etc) and using “showroom” spec vehicles ( with safety additions), and the same driver
Otherwise , the result is simply proportional to the amount of money and resource the manufacturers throw at the attempt.
But the question remains ....where did those 7;20+ “lap” times that were reported come from ?
According to that article, they were at best an “estimate” for an incomplete lap.
Teslas own “Can do 7;20” we know is a virtual time, which they may as well have generated from Grand Turismo 4 Sim game !

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 26 2019 12:49am
by boars
No point bickering over what ifs, could be's and maybe's - neither car has an official time - lets move on and wait for some official times to eventually emerge.

:bigthumb:

At any rate, they're both bloody quick and I'd happily have either in my garage.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 26 2019 5:02pm
by Arlo1
boars wrote:
Sep 26 2019 12:49am
No point bickering over what ifs, could be's and maybe's - neither car has an official time - lets move on and wait for some official times to eventually emerge.

:bigthumb:

At any rate, they're both bloody quick and I'd happily have either in my garage.
Only way for an OFFICIAL time is for Nuremberg to put on an event and the cars to come as OEMs otherwise Nuremberg considers it unofficial even if you come to an event with a concept car or if you get anyone you want with any equipment they want to record it and do what ever with it. IF they did not clock your time themselves at an official even its not official.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 26 2019 5:23pm
by Hillhater
Arlo1 wrote:
Sep 26 2019 5:02pm
Only way for an OFFICIAL time is for Nuremberg to put on an event and the cars to come as OEMs otherwise Nuremberg considers it unofficial .........
Yes, but that means you wont see an official time for Tesla for a long while as it is not a production car.
Personally, i am more interested in. Discovering what Tesla has done with the battery pack to both allow more power to be used for much longer than previously possible without heat issues.
As with all performance EVs ,.. the battery is the key. !

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Sep 26 2019 6:54pm
by Arlo1
Hillhater wrote:
Sep 26 2019 5:23pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Sep 26 2019 5:02pm
Only way for an OFFICIAL time is for Nuremberg to put on an event and the cars to come as OEMs otherwise Nuremberg considers it unofficial .........
Yes, but that means you wont see an official time for Tesla for a long while as it is not a production car.
Personally, i am more interested in. Discovering what Tesla has done with the battery pack to both allow more power to be used for much longer than previously possible without heat issues.
As with all performance EVs ,.. the battery is the key. !
You won't see and "OFFICIAL" time from Porsche or Tesla for a long time. But Tesla will release a video.
Tesla just patented a new chemistry and bought maxwel for their dry electrode. They are making those in china in the new cars already. Its a NMCA chemistry with the dry electrode good for more power longer life more range and cheaper to produce.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 03 2019 1:57am
by Arlo1
New record again this 1/4...... Yup they are sure getting close to bankruptcy.... you know while they sell more then they ever have and their backlog of orders is getting bigger and bigger... The other car manufactures are down 10-20% in sales..... Hmm Yup Tesla is going down for sure.. bahahahahahahahahahahh https://electrek.co/2019/10/02/tesla-re ... veries-q3/

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 03 2019 7:47pm
by jonescg
I'm sure there's a way to spin this in a negative light... just wait :roll:

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 03 2019 11:55pm
by Arlo1
jonescg wrote:
Oct 03 2019 7:47pm
I'm sure there's a way to spin this in a negative light... just wait :roll:
Its funny if you google it... That's exactly what the main stream media is trying to do....

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 04 2019 6:25am
by SlowCo
In our country (NL/EU) the Tesla Model 3 was the best selling (new/lease/company) car in the month September. I suspect it will keep the lead until the end of the year. But next year the tax (bijtelling) will go up for company electric lease cars so that might change things.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 07 2019 8:06am
by raylo32
These cars are great for local/commuting duty... there are MANY in my area... but road trips? Not so much. I just got back from a vacation to Maine and we stopped at some service plazas along the way. Some had Supercharger installations... that were always occupied, with other cars waiting. I can't imagine being in that situation. We had lunch, got fuel, walked the dog... and the same Teslas were still on the chargers. I guess the drivers were having an extended lunch. And the others waiting for their turn? Yikes.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 07 2019 11:23am
by Arlo1
raylo32 wrote:
Oct 07 2019 8:06am
These cars are great for local/commuting duty... there are MANY in my area... but road trips? Not so much. I just got back from a vacation to Maine and we stopped at some service plazas along the way. Some had Supercharger installations... that were always occupied, with other cars waiting. I can't imagine being in that situation. We had lunch, got fuel, walked the dog... and the same Teslas were still on the chargers. I guess the drivers were having an extended lunch. And the others waiting for their turn? Yikes.
If you use the charge icon on the maps it will help you with that.

Also A Better Root planner is a good app to help with this.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 30 2019 8:35am
by TheBeastie

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 30 2019 10:18am
by billvon
TheBeastie wrote:
Oct 30 2019 8:35am
Tesla’s U.S. Sales in Third Quarter Fell 39%, Filing Reveals


From the articles linked:

=============
Tesla's US sales declined by more than a third last quarter, compared to the year-ago period, the company said Tuesday. All other geographic areas, however, continued to post sales growth, according to the regulatory filing. . . The company surprised investors with a quarterly profit, making good on Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk's promise, as it delivered a record 97,000 cars.
=============

Growing the market in China is actually more important than growing the market in the US. A LOT more customers.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 30 2019 11:14am
by Arlo1
Its really good to see Porsche actually competing with the model S

This really is not a competition between the 2 but the 2 against all ICE vehicles!

My wife I are on Maui right now. We Toro'ed a model 3 base model. This car is dope!

I didn't think I would be so impressed with the base model. It might be a Sr+ I am not sure how to tell. I will txt the owner.

Only problem here is there is no Tesla super chargers and every chademo we have tried is failed although we got about 30 miles of charge from 1 chademo before it tripped a fault. We have not had any sucsess with getting a full charge yet.

Yesterday we thought we were going to get a full charge while at dinner and the old dude who came in with his leaf must of unplugged us from L2 then plugged us back in later as we only got about 30 more miles of charge which is about 1.5 hr.

Today after snorkeling I have a mission of finding at least one fast charger that works....

We are planning a long trip on the road to hana tomorrow.


Otherwise car is incredible!!!

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 30 2019 9:41pm
by jonescg
I think the Model 3 is a lot more fussy about charge adaptors than the S and X. Guy here in Perth has been struggling with his 3 on the Circontrol Trio chargers. About 50% success.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 30 2019 10:05pm
by Arlo1
jonescg wrote:
Oct 30 2019 9:41pm
I think the Model 3 is a lot more fussy about charge adaptors than the S and X. Guy here in Perth has been struggling with his 3 on the Circontrol Trio chargers. About 50% success.
Got a bit of a story today from a local with a 2015 leaf.

IN 2014/2015 he said someone from Japan came and put all the L3 stations in (chademo) and they were good for a while now they are 5 years old and got sold to a local company who is not keeping them up. They are all sun faded and hard AF to read but they trip out all the time. The model 3 just tells me the staion quite providing power. But the station faults RED and will not go again.
At one of them I went and cycled all the big breakers and later that day one of them give me 20 min of charging before faulting again...

It was funny the screen at that one said window is starting after I cycled the power.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Oct 31 2019 11:50pm
by LeftieBiker
Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 30 2019 10:05pm
jonescg wrote:
Oct 30 2019 9:41pm
I think the Model 3 is a lot more fussy about charge adaptors than the S and X. Guy here in Perth has been struggling with his 3 on the Circontrol Trio chargers. About 50% success.
Got a bit of a story today from a local with a 2015 leaf.

IN 2014/2015 he said someone from Japan came and put all the L3 stations in (chademo) and they were good for a while now they are 5 years old and got sold to a local company who is not keeping them up. They are all sun faded and hard AF to read but they trip out all the time. The model 3 just tells me the staion quite providing power. But the station faults RED and will not go again.
At one of them I went and cycled all the big breakers and later that day one of them give me 20 min of charging before faulting again...

It was funny the screen at that one said window is starting after I cycled the power.

The most common Chademo failure is from the cooling air intake filter getting plugged and the thermal cutoff tripping. They need to be maintained, and few owners do that.

Re: Tesla Model 3

Posted: Nov 01 2019 10:51am
by TheBeastie
NHTSA has started an investigation of Tesla battery fires. And new OTA throttled charge updates that are said to reduce fire probabilities but also reduce range.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... y-defects/
NHTSA has received more than two dozen formal complaints about Tesla battery issues reducing cars’ range, the agency’s records show.

“This is cheating,” reads one complaint about a 2014 Model S. “Tesla remotely lowered my battery range without my approval.”


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... tery-fires
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/busi ... ation.html
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2019/I ... -76719.pdf
^this PDF shows they are digging deeper and asking Tesla officially for information.